Newly refinished Diamond Brite pool and spa - start-up questions

[pgershon]

My 22 year old pool was just resurfaced for the second time (did it last in 2011). My PB applied bond-kote two weeks ago and finished with application of Midnight Blue Diamond Brite yesterday in both the pool and spa. He left me to pick it from here, with well water filling in the pool. Bit he did return today to add acid (a lot of it) to expose the Diamond Brite. My instructions are let it sit overnight and to start the circulation tomorrow or Wednesday (the pool filled faster than he expected), being sure to record my chemistry on a daily basis. I am to run the pump 24/7 for a few days, then eventually to balance system and set to timer. No pool vac for a month. And I should brush the walls and floor daily for two weeks.

I measured the pH just now at dusk and its very very low - spa is 1.5 and pool is 2.2 using digital pH meter (just calibrated). He put a helluva lot of acid in. I am very reluctant to open my pool circulation while the pH is this low. There is no cutoff for my RayPak heaters (model 406, 400,000 btu, from 2012, one each for pool and spa on separate circulation systems) and the acid will destroy them. Right now I still have the plugs in from winterization. Do I neutralize the acid before I turn on circulation? If so, how do I circulate the chemicals I add?

His target chemistry is pH 6.8 for a week, then let it run to 7.4-7.6. Target CH is 200-400. He says no chlorine for at least a few days to a week. Temps are still low-mid 60s on warm days and 40s at night, so I doubt much algae will grow just yet.

Thoughts on pH rated issues and my pool heaters? Also, thinking I should add Jack's Magic Pink in case there was iron in my well water. Thoughts?

Many thanks. I did my own pool maintenance last years since June but this is the first time I have started up a pool.

 

[ajw22]

You do not want the pool water flowing through your heater until your pH ia in the 7's. At the low pH you have now it will destroy the heat exchanger.

What is your TA? I think it is 0.

You need to raise your TA which will raise your pH.

Your pool installer did you no favors with the acid addition. You have to decide if you listen to him or follow the manufacturers start-up recommendations at Diamond Brite or Diamond Brite.

I think Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff is for fresh plaster and should be added if you are concerned about metals in your well water.

I would start with raising your TA with Washing Soda in a few steps testing TA and pH along the way.

Chemical effects on TA and pH are:

• Baking Soda = big TA change, small pH change
• Borax = big pH change, small TA change
• Soda Ash/Washing Soda = big pH change, big TA change.

Lets see if @mknauss or @onBalance have anything to add.

 

[pgershon]

Thanks for your comments. Looks like my PB is more or less following the "Wet Acid Wash" technique (which is also listed as least desirable on the SGM link you sent). If I follow the instructions, sounds liek I should not circulate and brush for the next three days, then add soda ash and a sequestering agent. I was thinking Pink Stuff vs Blue Stuff because I have historically had issues with iron and not with copper.

The one thing I did not mention in my note is the the PB used calcium carbonate in the mix with the Diamond Brite, presumably to cure it faster in the cold 50 degree weather the day the Diamond Brite was troweled on. That may relate to his strong use of acid.

Love to hear from @mknauss and/or @onBalance too.

Perry

 

[mknauss]

onBalance would be far more qualified than I on new plaster startup. I know the addition of the calcium chloride will raise some concerns with him.

 

[pgershon]

To be clear calcium was added directly to the finish, not to the pool water. And for better or worse, it was done yesterday and cannot be undone. I need to make the best of my current situation. Plan to test the water when I brush in the AM tomorrow. I will report the pH and TA. PB told me to expect pH to rise significantly overnight, and thought I could wait a few days before starting filter relying on the high acid to protect the surface from dust accumulation. Unfortunately I have no idea how many gallons of acid he added.

My question will be do I wait an extra day or two for the pH to rise on its own before starting filter, or do I increase pH (and TA) with soda ash so I can start filter tomorrow.

 

[proavia]

@onBalance

 

[onBalance]

Follow ajw advice. It may help for us to know what the fill water readings are. Alkalinity, pH, and Calcium hardness.
As for calcium chloride being added to the plaster mix, it depends on the quantity.
I would insist on the PB informing you how much acid was added and calcium chloride. And why he is not using more appropriate startup programs as recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[pgershon]

It just occurred to me, the pool lights are in the high acid pool - and metal. Cannot be good. Given its almost midnight, I suppose I must wait until the AM and then get the pH corrected quickly.

 

[ajw22]

The pool lights are not as susceptible to low pH as the copper heat exchanger in the heater.

I would not worry about the lights.

 

[pgershon]

Sequestant arrived today but Amazon mistakingly sent Jacks Magic magenta instead of pink. I RE-ordered the blue as you suggested but won’t have until Thursday. Can I wait two extra days to add, or should I look locally for some equivalent? While I don’t think it matters much between pink and blue (as my issue likely manganese and iron and not copper), magenta is wrong product.

 

[ajw22]

. Can I wait two extra days to add, or should I look locally for some equivalent?

Just don't start adjusting TA or pH until you get the sequestrant in the water. The pH changes can get the metals out of solution.

 

[onBalance]

As I see this situation, I think that the PB should be handling the water chemistry startup until it is completely balanced. My concern is that if you try to balance the water and something goes wrong, such as plaster dust forming and turning the plaster white, then the PB will blame you and make you responsible for the remedy. He is the one that added the acid after the pool filled with water, which is not recommended and likely detrimental. Therefore, he should handle the chemical startup program and be responsible for the results.

I would brush the pool completely asap and then test the water readings and post here. Let's learn where the water stands now.

 

[pgershon]

So ok to let it sit at very low pH for another two days? I just brushed pool and spa. Pool pH is 2.4 and spa is 1.6. TA is zero (Taylor test never turns green). CH read 120 in pool but I could not get sample to turn blue in spa - perhaps the water was too acidic.

One thing for sure - that water is toxic. My throat is sore from an hour next to pool brushing..

 

[onBalance]

Having a pH that low is terrible. I don't like it, and it should be adjusted upward immediately. But I don't want to see you end up being blamed for this. The PB should be called and demanded that the pH and water be balanced now. He said the pH would raised by now, but it hasn't. So he must take care of it now. At the very least, he should provide you instructions and approval to raise the pH now.

 

[pgershon]

I just got off the phone with SGM sales rep. The advice I got from him is to get the water circulating as soon as possible, and not to worry so much about the acid as it should fall (I dont think think he believed pH was quite as low as my meter is reading). We agreed best best at this point is for me to cut pipes to take pool heater and salt generator out of the flow and then run my pool equipment. The pH should come up, and if it does not on its own, I can add soda ash. And I need to get sequestrant in ASAP too once pH starts to rise. I should have a bypass anyway, but that plumbing is more complex (I need to buy valves and determine how to place in tight area). For now, its easy to just buy T connectors. I will post photo of my lines.

Worst thing for me now is the fumes are so bad that I felt ill from being near the pool.

 

[pgershon]

I bypassed the pool heater, spa heater and the chlorinators and I have the water circulating. The pH is still way low (still 2.4 in pool and 1.6 in spa - same as yesterday, 24 hours later). Tomorrow I will add sequestering agent and bring pH up and alkalinity. SGM sales rep suggested I use sodium bicarbonate as opposed to sodium carbonate as a first pass (to bring up alkalinity). Thoughts?

Pictures are of the line before and after the bypass. I think I should get two valves for each system and creat a manual bypass valve, since I already need to repipe to get my heaters back in line. Thoughts on that?

Thanks ajw22 and onBalance for your help so far.

 

[mknauss]

Use baking soda until you can read a TA. Once TA is above 50 ppm, use borax in small amounts until pH in the 7’s.

 

[pgershon]

Cartridge filter pressure went from 10 psi to 25 psi in about 2 hours on the spa. I swapped the cartridge with a fresh clean one and pressure went back to 10 psi. But 2 hours later its back at 20 psi. Getting ready to go to bed and concerned that filter will leak from the top seal (it tends to leak when pressure goes above 25 psi. Should I put in my last fresh cartridge before I go to bed?

In the AM I can better clean off the dirty filters. They are quite blue with dust from my Midnight Blue Diamond Brite.

 

[pgershon]

Today I added sequestering agent, brought the pH up, though not yet all the way to where I want it as I ran out of baking soda and need to purchase more. pH of pool and spa are each up to about 5.4, and the TA is about 30. I am targeting a TA of 80 and pH of 7.0-7.2 for now. Added Jack's Magic Pink Stuff (that is all I could get imeadiately, the blue was ordered but did not arrive yet). Waited 3 hours, and then started adding baking soda. Went through about 45 pounds between the pool and spa.

I encountered one other issue and I am not sure what to make of it or do about it. My spa water is its own closed system. The water turned a whitish color, though I suspect it is just bubbles at the top that I am seeing (perhaps the reaction of baking soda to something). Photo attached. Hopefully after a few hours this will go away. I was not sure how much baking soda to add - used pool math but started at zero and when I put in the called for amount in spa, it still registered zero TA.

Any thoughts most appreciated. ajw22 for bearing with me. mknauss shoudl I go to borax now or get the TA up a bit more with more bang soda?

 

[mknauss]

Get the TA to 70 ppm or so with baking soda. The cloudy you see is likely CO2 gas created by the sodium bicarb reacting with the acidity. Treat each body on its own.