Newb OB with BYOP in Buckeye AZ - Completion and wrap up

[Schwimmbad]

Thank you very much @ajw22. You are right that I did have comments about the various equipment I was planning, but nothing specifically after I got the list with the model #'s.

I wasn’t sure about the acid washing kit. I don't remember reading about that thing and didn’t even know it existed until it showed up in my list. I just figured it was a minor item and if it was on my list from a company that sells pool equipment it's something I should have. I should know better, pool equipment companies want to sell their stuff (same as pool stores). I looked it up and found out it's just a stand to hold the SWG upright so you can pour acid through the cell. To your point, it may not even be needed and no reason to buy it now.

Originally the pool equipment company was proposing to provide all the components of the intellicenter bundle individually, including the 900MHz wireless bridge to connect to our network, which I understand is included in the bundle. I asked them to eliminate that as I would run a CAT5. I'm left wondering if the cost of the bundle (which includes the 900MHz) lower than pricing of the individual components without the 900MHz? I will have to talk to the equipment company and just ask directly.

I have another company providing a quote on equipment and they are proposing the i5 bundle with the IC60 upgrade. Is the i5 sufficient if I wanted to install everything I am planning for future installs (heater and chiller)?
Fltr Relay1 - Not available used by pump
Aux Relay2 - Pool lights
Aux Relay3 - Landscape lights
Aux Relay4 - Chiller
Aux Relay5 - Heater?

If I have a future desire to add anything controlled by the intellicenter I know I can get an expansion kit to add relays, but I wondered how much that would be since you have to get another load center or power center. Seems like it would cost quite a bit to add one additional relay.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Ask for all the load tickets from concrete trucks delivering the Shotcrete, it’s the only way to confirm what you paid for.

That is a great suggestion. I made a note in my bid binder so I can remember that if the company has extras. Interesting that the shotcrete bids quote a range of 26.5 yds up to 33 yds. When normalizing the quotes to 31 yds (eliminating the 33 yds company) total cost only varies by ~$700 or about 7%.

 

[Newdude]

found out it's just a stand to hold the SWG upright so you can pour acid through the cell.

I looked up the part # and it was just the cap for the cell. When I was unnecessarily cleaning my cell, I finally broke down and bought a cap after taking many MA showers. The cell died shortly thereafter from excessive acid baths and the new cell came with 2 caps. Now I have 3 with zero need. I'd send you one for free, but that'd probably cost me more than the $9.99 that Amazon sells them for. Lol. ($17.99 from online pool stores, $27.99 from Pentair)

 

[ajw22]

The heater does not use an AUX relay.

 

[Ahultin]

I went i10ps as the price difference at the time between the i8 and i10 was ~$100 (521908 kit was $3589 free shipping no tax) looks like they are a hair more now but where I purchased there is still only a $90 difference between i8 and i10
I have relays used as follows
1. Filter relay
2. Spa/grotto light
3. Pool main lights
4. Landscape lights
5. Auto-fill solenoid (I have this on a schedule so that i can monitor usage thru a flume monitor)
6. Pool robot (this goes to a switched gfci outlet initially intended to activate the "automation mode" in a maytronics robot but is now used to charge the cordless robot on a timer so that it is not constantly charging)
7. Equipment pad light ( there was not a convenient place to put a light switch so why not)
8. Current project - automated fire bowls
9. Spare future use ( i have an extra switched leg going to a future bbq island and will likely use this for the lighting circuit)
10. Spare future use

 

[Schwimmbad]

I'd send you one for free, but that'd probably cost me more than the $9.99 that Amazon sells them for. Lol. ($17.99 from online pool stores, $27.99 from Pentair)

… and the equipment company BYOP partners with wanted $38. Thank you for the offer @Newdude but if and when needed I’ll buy from Amazon and help out my best friend JB.

 

[Schwimmbad]

The heater does not use an AUX relay.

Thanks Allen. I missed that, so if I went with the i5 I'll start with one spare (if I add the future equipment I am contemplating).

I have relays used as follows
1. Filter relay
2. Spa/grotto light
3. Pool main lights
4. Landscape lights
5. Auto-fill solenoid (I have this on a schedule so that i can monitor usage thru a flume monitor)
6. Pool robot (this goes to a switched gfci outlet initially intended to activate the "automation mode" in a maytronics robot but is now used to charge the cordless robot on a timer so that it is not constantly charging)
7. Equipment pad light ( there was not a convenient place to put a light switch so why not)
8. Current project - automated fire bowls
9. Spare future use ( i have an extra switched leg going to a future bbq island and will likely use this for the lighting circuit)
10. Spare future use

Wow @Ahultin that looks like a great use of your relays. You are really making me think more about what I want to do. I like to have flexibility and some of what you have on your relays I can see myself doing at some point in my future (auto-fill monitoring, automate fire bowls, outdoor kitchen lights, even the GFCI for the robot). I love to tinker and automate (to my wife's dismay) so I'm now leaning to at least the i8. It seems sort of like a house, you end up filling up the space you have.

It's been a slow back and forth with the equipment guy, so I'm going to have to set up a call with him to price out the various options, both today and future.

 

[desertbeekeeper]

Thank you very much @ajw22. You are right that I did have comments about the various equipment I was planning, but nothing specifically after I got the list with the model #'s.

I wasn’t sure about the acid washing kit. I don't remember reading about that thing and didn’t even know it existed until it showed up in my list. I just figured it was a minor item and if it was on my list from a company that sells pool equipment it's something I should have. I should know better, pool equipment companies want to sell their stuff (same as pool stores). I looked it up and found out it's just a stand to hold the SWG upright so you can pour acid through the cell. To your point, it may not even be needed and no reason to buy it now.

Originally the pool equipment company was proposing to provide all the components of the intellicenter bundle individually, including the 900MHz wireless bridge to connect to our network, which I understand is included in the bundle. I asked them to eliminate that as I would run a CAT5. I'm left wondering if the cost of the bundle (which includes the 900MHz) lower than pricing of the individual components without the 900MHz? I will have to talk to the equipment company and just ask directly.

I have another company providing a quote on equipment and they are proposing the i5 bundle with the IC60 upgrade. Is the i5 sufficient if I wanted to install everything I am planning for future installs (heater and chiller)?
Fltr Relay1 - Not available used by pump
Aux Relay2 - Pool lights
Aux Relay3 - Landscape lights
Aux Relay4 - Chiller
Aux Relay5 - Heater?

If I have a future desire to add anything controlled by the intellicenter I know I can get an expansion kit to add relays, but I wondered how much that would be since you have to get another load center or power center. Seems like it would cost quite a bit to add one additional relay.

I would recommend you also get a price on the equipment from Monster Power LLC (602) 618-6298 they seemed to have a pretty good price on the equipment. You are a couple weeks ahead of me, getting the engineering done now, hope to start digging by 6/15

 

[thewolf56]

I would recommend you also get a price on the equipment from Monster Power LLC (602) 618-6298 they seemed to have a pretty good price on the equipment. You are a couple weeks ahead of me, getting the engineering done now, hope to start digging by 6/15

I didn't get my equipment from them, but I used them for my O/B and I was very happy with them. They gave me the idea to use one of my microbrites to uplight the interior of my grotto and it looks awesome on the waterfall at night.

 

[Schwimmbad]

get a price on the equipment from Monster Power LLC (602) 618-6298

Monster did offer to provide a quote and they do have very good pricing. Once I finalize, I'll see if the BYOP equipment vendor will match. If they could it'd be great to get their 5-year warranty.

 

[KevMo]

If I have a future desire to add anything controlled by the intellicenter I know I can get an expansion kit to add relays, but I wondered how much that would be since you have to get another load center or power center. Seems like it would cost quite a bit to add one additional relay.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Pentair sells relay upgrade kits. You only get the relays associated with the personality card (i5*, i8*, i10*). The only way to expand the number of relays is to buy a new personality card and take out your old one. Do a search for the price of a standalone personality card and you will see they are much more expensive than specifying the next larger Intellicenter. If you have doubts whether the i5* will be enough for you in the future, by the i8* now. I have the i8PS and I had I known all the things I wanted to add, I would have specified the i10PS.

 

[Ahultin]

The only way to expand the number of relays is to buy a new personality card and take out your old one

Correct and an i8 personality card is ~800, an i10 is ~1200

 

[Schwimmbad]

The equipment guy said "To expand any personality kit, a second utility box would need to be added alongside of the current one. Then it's a matter of choosing X5 or X10. Running between $2200 to $2700."

The only way to expand the number of relays is to buy a new personality card and take out your old one.

Am I following you correctly @KevMo that he is wrong? Not that I want to do this, but if I bought the i5P and later needed more relays I could replace the card i5 card with an i8 or i10?

 

[Ahultin]

As I understand the i5 does not have the daughter card (personality kit) The i8 adds the daughter card and 3 relays, the i10 adds a different daughter card and 5 more relays.
The upgrade later is significantly more expensive than the upgrade now but he is incorrect in stating you would need another utility box.

 

[ajw22]

The equipment guy said "To expand any personality kit, a second utility box would need to be added alongside of the current one. Then it's a matter of choosing X5 or X10. Running between $2200 to $2700."

Am I following you correctly @KevMo that he is wrong? Not that I want to do this, but if I bought the i5P and later needed more relays I could replace the card i5 card with an i8 or i10?

You and your equipment guy are having a failure to communicate with the difference in Pentair speak between “expansion” and “replacement”.

See this list for the available modules - https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...ntellicenter-control-system-replacement-parts

The i8P or i10P cards connect into an i5P board to add 3 or 5 relays.

The X cards with another cabinet are used if you want to go past 10 relays.

 

[Schwimmbad]

You and your equipment guy are having a failure to communicate with the difference in Pentair speak between “expansion” and “replacement”.

Allen that was exactly my feeling! Kinda like his native language is German and mine is English and we are both trying to speak in Chinese.

See this list for the available modules - https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...ntellicenter-control-system-replacement-parts

I have been looking at that list of modules and trying to understand how they fit together. For example, when starting with a bundle (or the components) and deciding how much I want to spend for future flexibility.

I have been using the awesome reference that @MyAZPool wrote IntelliCenter Quick Reference/Information Guide. I printed out his first six posts to use as a hardcopy reference. I am seriously considering "harvesting" his material and creating a pdf with active links so it's able to be shared with the TFP community in a little easier format.

Here is where I'm at (I think):
1. Based on my initial install, I'm starting with the assumption that the i5P bundle would work well. I would add the intellivalve actuator to control the 3-way valve to adjust the flow to returns/scuppers.
2. If I want to add the chiller and it's actuator (or heater and it's actuator), all I would need to do is add another intellivalve actuator. From what I am reading it seems like the i5P can support two intellivalve actuators.
3. If I want to add whatever was not added above (heater or chiller), I would need to add the i5X Expansion Kit (i5X motherboard + 0 relays since 5 come with the LC) and need to add another Power Center. If I really think I'm going to add a chiller and a heater I should probably go with the i5PS since it can control 4 actuators and is probably more cost effective. At this point I would still have one spare relay.
4. If I need to add relays I could add on an i8 card or i10 card to get either 3 or 5 more relays?
Am I getting close?

My initial plan for relays is bold and underlined, future is italicized:
FLTR Relay1 - Not available, used by pump
AUX Relay2 - Pool lights
AUX Relay3 - Landscape lights
AUX Relay4 - Chiller
AUX Relay5 - Spare

Seems like a decent place to get a list of modules/options and pricing is PolytecPools IntelliCenter Personality Kits & Expansion Cards

Let me know if it's not ok to post links to supplier's websites and I'll remove the link.

 

[Ahultin]

Based on my initial install, I'm starting with the assumption that the i5P bundle would work well. I would add the intellivalve actuator to control the 3-way valve to adjust the flow to returns/scuppers.

Price the difference between the i5p you are being quoted, and the i8psic60 at polytech
Based on your initial, the i5p looks like ot would meet your bare minimum but I think you will find little price difference and much more value with the polytec kit (which would also include 2 actuators)

2. If I want to add the chiller and it's actuator (or heater and it's actuator), all I would need to do is add another intellivalve actuator. From what I am reading it seems like the i5P can support two intellivalve actuators.

Yes

3. If I want to add whatever was not added above (heater or chiller), I would need to add the i5X Expansion Kit (i5X motherboard + 0 relays since 5 come with the LC) and need to add another Power Center. If I really think I'm going to add a chiller and a heater I should probably go with the i5PS since it can control 4 actuators and is probably more cost effective. At this point I would still have one spare relay.

No - you would have plenty of room in the existing load center. It has space for 10 full size breakers. Make sure rhe incoming service wire is sufficient for future plans. In the long run, wire is cheap and labor expensive.
If yiu needed to add additional valve actuators you would use a valve expansion module (~$200)

. If I need to add relays I could add on an i8 card or i10 card to get either 3 or 5 more relays?
Am I getting close

Yes, if you need more relays than 5, you are a min 800 add for a new personality kit.

 

[ajw22]

There is no reason for you to be looking at X cards or an additional LC.

 

[Schwimmbad]

There is no reason for you to be looking at X cards or an additional LC.

Really appreciate the guidance, @ajw22, @Ahultin, and @KevMo. All of you have helped me immensely as I tried to figure out the IntelliCenter and equipment mystery. While I wanted the IC60, I couldn't get the BYOP partner to provide the bundle with an IC60 upgrade, so I settled for the IC40. When the time comes I'll replace it with the IC60.

I settled on my equipment and made the purchase today; I heard my credit card whimper as that one went through .

Final equipment list below. I'm excited to update my signature to include my equipment, I feel like some real progress has now been made.

Part	ITEM DETAILS	Qty
521903	Trade Grade Pentair IntelliCenter System Load Center with i8PS Personality Kit IC 40 SCG	1​
11075	Trade Grade Pentair 3HP 230V Intelliflo3 VSF Pump (PUR-10-1075)	1​
160301	Trade Grade Pentair Clean and Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter; 150 gpm	1​
620425	Trade Grade Pentair 12V 100' Color MicroBrite LED Light	4​
619963	Pentair 300 Watt; 12 -14 V Transformer	1​
	QUIKSKIM GRY/ TAN LID VENTURI SKIMMER W/ FOAM	2​
542464	Pentair QuikWater Water Leveler Tan	1​
263038	Pentair Water Pool And Spa Inc; 1.50" - 2" 2-Port PVC Diverter Valve	10​
263026	Pentair Water Pool And Spa Inc; 2" - 2.50" 3-Port CPVC Diverter Valve	1​
263060	Pentair Water Pool And Spa Inc; 2.50" - 3" Straight CPVC FullfloXF Check Valve	1​
520588	Pentair IntelliChlor "dummy" Bypass Cell for Winter or Start-Up	1​
540-6707	Waterway Volleyball / Umbrella Pole 1.5" Gray Lid	1​
12-720A	Wilkins Regulator Division; 720A; .50" Pressure Vacuum Breaker Assembly	1​

A few comments for anyone interested/following this build thread and curious about the BYOP experience. The BYOP equipment partner (while prompt and pleasant to interact with) was a bit difficult to work through the decision process, but in the end they (closely) matched a competitive full equipment quote.

On their original quote they proposed a la carte IntelliCenter components. That was way more expensive than a bundle. I had another company I was bidding electric with (Monster Power, who is mentioned earlier in this thread) that said they could offer the equipment and they said their pricing was very good. After about 3-4 weeks of back and forth between each of them individually and me trying to make up my mind about what I wanted I was able to get them both on the same equipment list. Tip, don't ask for price match until every little item is identical. That took quite a bit of effort. Ultimately, I got what I wanted and the BYOP partner took about $700 of their quote and I get the 5 year warranty on all Pentair equipment (excluding "white goods"). They said it includes the microbrites, which I wasn't expecting. I have heard those don't have a long life span so at least for the first 5 years I'm covered! By the way, I should have saved almost $1,000, but I'll spare you that excruciating detail unless someone wants to hear about it.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Topic - Using soft water for autofil... Hoping for a little enlightenment from those in the know.

One of the plumbers bidding on my job had a statement that connecting a soft water line to an auto leveler is not recommended. When I asked about it I received a lengthy reply. There are several statements the plumber made that I really don’t understand as I'm a certifiable idiot when it comes to pool water chemistry. I will say the plumber contradicts so much of what I have read on this forum, I am thinking of just forwarding the plumber a link to this site and politely say thank you for your comments and I have done my research and ask to proceed as requested.

Note on plumbers quote:
***- NOTE THAT IT IS NOT ADVISED TO CONNECT THE WATER LEVELER TO A SOFT WATER SOURCE. PLUMBER IS NOT LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES THAT MAY OCCUR TO POOL DUE TO THIS WATER SOURCE. STANDARD HOSE BIB OR EXISTING OUTSIDE WATER STUB WILL BE REQUIRED FOR WATER TIE IN IF CUSTOMER STILL WISHES TO USE SOFT WATER SOURCE AS NOTED ON PLAN.

My question to the plumber:
I saw your note about the soft water source for the water leveler. Why do you have that there? I plan to have a soft water source hooked up for the auto water leveler.

Plumbers response:
It is never recommended to fill the pool with soft water. Pool water needs a balanced environment which includes some hardness (calcium & magnesium). Pool water that is too soft will try to balance itself by stripping the missing chemicals from the actual wall of the pool to the extent that it can dissolve very hard surfaces like concrete & plaster. Too soft water is also highly corrosive to metal which can damage your equipment & valves (especially pumps & heaters). Some people will tell you that you can connect the water leveler to a soft water source as long as you DON'T fill the pool with soft water. Doing this requires a separate water soure to fill the pool & it also requires extremely fine-tuned water chemistry maintenance. Balancing your chemicals will become increasingly harder to do as natural evaporation removes water & you continue to fill the pool with soft water only. When this happens, the only thing you are able to do is drain the pool & start over. Draining the pool when the temperature is over 75 degrees is also dangerous to the interior of the pool. Using a soft water source will almost always void your interior & equipment warranties & it is very obvious to both parties when damages occur because of this. Pool chemicals are designed to balance your water chemistry as needed & your salt system will do a great job with the rest of the chemicals to keep the water from getting too hard. Hopefully that helps answer your question.

By the way, I did send a question to the equipment supplier if this would void the warranty.

Another interesting point is I just got off the phone with the company installing the water softener and they were adamant that they have in their 13 years never installed a water softener line to use for a water leveler and were saying it is a bad idea. They were making comments about "burning out" the softener and issues with the pool plaster. I feel like I am swimming upstream.