Newb OB with BYOP in Buckeye AZ - Completion and wrap up

[Schwimmbad]

General update below for anyone that cares, but I have a couple quick questions as I complete my inventory of the equipment. I will be opening all the boxes and making sure the right stuff is in there and nothing looks damaged to the untrained eye.

1. Should I pull all the documentation/paperwork for all the equipment or leave that for the plumber? I think I'm going to pull it as it may "disappear" when the plumber does his thing.
2. Any other words of advice as I check everything out?

I've had a lot going on since last post. Finished my last day gainfully employed on 7/7 (I am now officially retired but it doesn't feel like it!), loaded up a POD to move cross country on 7/17, visited in-laws in Illinois, drove to Ohio to visit with my parents, drove to Atlanta to watch my son defend his thesis for his PhD in Chemistry on 7/26, drove to Arizona and arrived at our new home on 7/29. Unloaded the POD and spent the last three weeks unpacking, arranging, hanging stuff on walls and getting our new build home to feel more like a home. I need a diversion, so I decided to get the pool work started.

On the plumbing, I've made minor tweaks and now on Rev 7. I decided to go with the larger 2.5-3" 3-way diverter valves for the header (thanks @mas985, the less noise part of your comment did it for me). I left the 2-way valves for the skimmers at 2-2.5" (those won't approach high flow rates unless one skimmer is out of commission).

I have the layout scheduled for Sept 1st and the excavator on Sept 5th. I am very excited to get it started and hope the non-existent monsoon doesn't decide to get started as soon as I open up the earth (I fully expect a 100-year storm to start at the exact wrong time). Had a pre-site with the excavator today to confirm various excavator access widths and discuss what additional access grading will be needed. The anticipation of starting after so many years of dreaming and planning feels like what I remember Christmas was like as a little boy.

 

[ajw22]

Pull all the documentation and paperwork and then ask the plumber what he wants. You will be surprised what he ignores.

You should review the Installation Manuals and point out to the plumber manufacturers installation requirements that you want him to follow. Don't expect him to know or review the manual before he begins work.

 

[KevMo]

Take pictures of everything, including nameplates with serial numbers. Manuals and handwritten documents can disappear over the years, but digital images stored in the cloud can outlive us. Store the pictures with the hundreds you take throughout the build.

 

[Newdude]

+1. Get every box, every barcode, every bag. Every everything. Pics are free.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Thanks all, really appreciate the comments.

I got a bunch of pictures of all the labels, but I didn't go over the top and get everything inside the boxes, but I will now (thanks @Newdude)! I took over 2,000 pics of our home right before insulation and drywall.

A basic inventory is absolutely warranted, found 2 2-way diverter valves for the skimmers missing. Called the company and they are looking into what happened and will get back to me when I can get them, I'm just over 2 weeks away from starting the plumbing.

Found an interesting slip of paper with the filter, it says to use a bulkhead adapter kit (P/N 274426Z) to connect it to 2.5 in piping. Pool equipment company doesn't stock this, said he has never heard of it in his 10 years, and said no one has any in the US (that I guess he has access to check). I can't believe this is anything special. Anyone have an insight into what this is? I wouldn't think it is any different that a 2.5"-2" reducer. Would this work?

Pull all the documentation and paperwork and then ask the plumber what he wants. You will be surprised what he ignores.

I got a chuckle out of this. I will take your advice and see what he says.

You should review the Installation Manuals and point out to the plumber manufacturers installation requirements that you want him to follow. Don't expect him to know or review the manual before he begins work.

Hey Allen I think you are spot on, I have lots of reading and some note taking to do.

One question I'm hoping someone can help with on the equipment pad. I think I want a concrete pad and it seems like most everyone in my immediate area installs the prefab pads. I'd like to size it for the future equipment I am planning, not have to rearrange anything when installing future equipment, and leave adequate space to service/replace equipment. When I looked at the chiller manual at it needs 18" to the building wall, 42" in diameter, and needs a min 3x3 pad. Based on that if I wanted a square rectangular pad, it would be almost 5' wide, that seems excessive for the rest of the equipment. I am now thinking of planning for a prefab pad for the chiller and go with concrete for the pump, filter, and future heater. Would a 4'x10' concrete pad and future prefab pad work ok? Planning for the equipment area to be 2' from the A/C and to the right of the left window in the picture, total 16' long (outside dimensions). I have plenty of space to locate the future heater at least 4' from the windows, although it places it sort of in the middle of the pad. Comments? How would experienced folks layout the equipment on this wall?

 

[Newdude]

I think I want a concrete pad

My PB wanted to use 2 prefabs at $100something each. With the cement truck already on-site, it was cheaper to get a poured pad.

My build got delayed a year+ with shortages and not being content waiting, I slapped a 4x8 frame together from scrap 2x10 planks and filled a few inches worth with 3/8s gravel. When the pour day came, my frame was the perfect size for their leftovers and they happily 'disposed' of it for free. They didn't broom finish it all nice, but it's plenty level and flat.




The concrete pre-fabs at the old place started breaking down around year 5 and needed replacement when we decided to move at year 8.

 

[mas985]

A lot of people use large pavers (3'x'3) which can make getting under the pad much easier if ever necessary.

 

[ajw22]

Would a 4'x10' concrete pad and future prefab pad work ok?

The problem occurs if the prefab pad and the concrete pad settle at different rates. That can put stress on the PVC pipes between the pads and lead to leaks.

I would like all equipment to be on one solid pad so things don't move dependently.

Planning for the equipment area to be 2' from the A/C and to the right of the left window in the picture, total 16' long (outside dimensions).

I did a pad over 15' long for my sons pool equipment. One of the things I learned is you need to keep equipment within reach of the wires from the SWG, actuators, and water temperature sensor to the automation panel.

I had to point that out to the plumbers as they were laying out the equipment and valves or the wires may not have reached where they would have placed it.

Are you planning for a future gas heater?

 

[KevMo]

My equipment pad is freestanding on the other side of the pool from the house. It is a 4' x 14' poured slab. The gas line and some above ground plumbing extends another foot along the long side. With the above ground plumbing in the front and the subpanel & Intellicenter load center posts, the overall footprint is 15' x 6'. The fence enclosing the equipment is 21' x 12' and I wish I had made it 14' deep. There is room to walk around most of the equipment but it is generally full. I could have had the crew squeeze things closer together but i had plenty of room in the yard. Now that I am considering adding an IntelliPh I will have to get creative for where I squeeze it in on the pad.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Pictures of a 4’ X 10’ concrete pad to accommodate 3 pumps, filter and heater.
Type of pad used when a precast is requested.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Are you planning for a future gas heater?

Yes, I don't know if I'll want it or not based on how we will use the pool. Same goes for the future chiller. Never had a pool and never lived in the desert. Have no idea what to expect, just want to be prepared for easy additions.

I am leaning now towards 4' x 14' with a 1 foot gap between the home foundation and the pad. That will work for the future chiller.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Pictures of a 4’ X 10’ concrete pad to accommodate 3 pumps, filter and heater.
Type of pad used when a precast is requested.

Thanks for the chuckle. I hate those precast pads, but they are everywhere I look.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Found an interesting slip of paper with the filter, it says to use a bulkhead adapter kit (P/N 274426Z) to connect it to 2.5 in piping. Pool equipment company doesn't stock this, said he has never heard of it in his 10 years, and said no one has any in the US (that I guess he has access to check). I can't believe this is anything special. Anyone have an insight into what this is? I wouldn't think it is any different that a 2.5"-2" reducer. Would this work?

Hoping someone can chime in on the question above. Upon my further reading, the filter manual makes it look like it is a reducer combined with a union (item 15 below). If so it seems it is simply to reduce the length of the connection. Am I am in the ballpark and my link above would be fine?

 

[Schwimmbad]

Another plumbing question.

Plumber said since my design can run above 80 GPM a loop with a flow control valve is needed for the intellichlor. The Pentair intellichlor manual shows this as well. I don’t remember seeing this come up before on this forum. I’m assuming both the plumber and Pentair are correct but wondering if the is another approach to avoid the loop and valve. What happens if I don’t install the loop and valve and run over 80 GPM?

 

[mknauss]

You have a variable speed pump. You will never run it at that speed.

 

[kimkats]

Not sure how I missed this one. I would do as suggested and get a solid, poured pad.

 

[Schwimmbad]

Just had an interesting conversation with a pool tile/mason/decking/etc contractor that previously subcontracted out plaster. He said he stopped offering plaster because they wanted to control the plaster schedule and the company they regularly used had issues with their scheduling.

Anyway, the interesting part is he said the particular NPT plaster we picked out (NPT Stonescapes Sand Mini) is actually made by a company called Finest Finish Pools that NPT buys the finished product from, marks it up, and resells it. Finest Finish also sells the exact same plaster mix through other distributors with a much lower cost than NPT (the local distributor I would probably purchase from would be Universal White Cement). He said since it is all premixed by Finest Finish and just bagged with the NPT label you are getting the exact same product. He also said he thought the warranty is the same. I am checking into all this. But in the meantime, I was wondering if I can call back one of the resident plaster experts on TFP @onBalance to offer his thoughts before I go down this rabbit hole on buying from NPT or direct. I'm interested in hearing from others on this as well, so please chime in.

I'm not one to spend money when I don't have to and I expect I would get something for paying NPT more, so my initial thought is there is probably something I would be getting (in the way of support or warranty) by going through NPT. I did find the startup procedure on NPTs site is the same as on the Finest Finish/Universal White Cement, which is the standard NPC start-up card which makes me ponder the whole situation.

As an aside, in my reading I came across this DVD from NPC on "TAKING CARE OF YOUR POOL" that you can buy for $35. I'm thinking with all the info and education I am getting on this site I can save my $35. Another benefit of TFP and the TFP community!

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

This is what the mix bags look like.

 

[ajw22]

He also said he thought the warranty is the same. I am checking into all this.

Check into what the warranty from the plaster material company really covers.

I think it is worthless.

There is rarely a problem with the plaster materials. The plaster problems come from the mixing and application of the plaster and that warranty needs to come from the plaster company doing the work.

I have never heard of the plaster materials company covering a warranty issue and when called they always end up siding with the plaster applier.

The materials are a small part of the plaster cost. Plaster appliers do warranty work and they eat the cost of the replacement materials.

Look for quality in the plaster applier and worry less about the materials being used.

 

[onBalance]

ajw22 is telling it like it is about products and material. I do like Universal and Wet Edge as companies go. However, if a blue color pigments is being considered, you should investigate all manufacturer's materials and make sure the blue pigment that is being used is colorfast.

See this post: Not All Color Pigments are Good for Pools