New pool owner - Chlorine saga

[kaminski54]

There is some kind of pool store potion put in this water before you bought this house. You continuously have high CC -- that is a marker that is telling us something.

Agreed. The pool store people seriously asked me if someone was sabotaging my pool. There is nothing else for me to check besides the buried pipe and the pool light. Adding this much chlorine over the last 3 days, I would expect high FC or CC, but it is just disappearing. Either it is free and active, or it is bound and used up. I can't just disappear, not this quickly, right? Would having my SWCG on hurt anything? Thanks.

 

[mknauss]

Your SWCG creates chlorine far below what you are using. In fact, I would turn it off during this as it is not doing you any good.

Again, the CC is telling us something. The FC is burning up something and creating these high CC's. I am just not smart enough to know what!

Are you in a position to drain and refill (with vinyl you can only do to 1 foot of water remaining in your shallow end) this pool? I truly do not have any other ideas.

 

[kaminski54]

Your SWCG creates chlorine far below what you are using. In fact, I would turn it off during this as it is not doing you any good.

Again, the CC is telling us something. The FC is burning up something and creating these high CC's. I am just not smart enough to know what!

Are you in a position to drain and refill (with vinyl you can only do to 1 foot of water remaining in your shallow end) this pool? I truly do not have any other ideas.

I am very close to trying. I can't think of anything either. No one can! The worst part is both my kids (2 and 3) got pretty sick from the pool (ear infx and strep), so we won't be using it for a while... at least not until everything is rock solid and we have some FC!

 

[pookiesunshine]

There is some kind of pool store potion put in this water before you bought this house. You continuously have high CC -- that is a marker that is telling us something.

do you know if your pool store owner neighbor was servicing the previous owner? he might know or be able to find out what was put in the pool. maybe the previous owner left records? or you can contact him to find out? something is seriously wrong. sounds like a dead animal stuck in a pipe somewhere. i have no idea.

 

[kaminski54]

do you know if your pool store owner neighbor was servicing the previous owner? he might know or be able to find out what was put in the pool. maybe the previous owner left records? or you can contact him to find out? something is seriously wrong. sounds like a dead animal stuck in a pipe somewhere. i have no idea.

Thanks for the idea. My neighbor did not service the pool, but I did find out where they got their water tested and called. They said the owner brought in the water weekly and had great chemistry/always stayed on top of it. I'm thinking it is a real possibility there is a dead animal somewhere. I was scared the house we bought might be a lemon/money pit... turns out the pool is.

 

[Teald024]

Another former Sustain product user?

With this kind of chlorine consumption, I'm leaning towards a former chemical addition and not organic/ living things based. Dead animals or algae can't use up the chlorine that fast for this amount of time and still be this inconspicuous.

 

[Suz.E.Q]

So sorry you're dealing with this! I've been going through something very similar -- I cannot BELIEVE how many gallons of 10% I've used! I noticed my CYA (which has been historically 70-80) is now suddenly quite low. There are threads about how CYA can be degraded by bacteria and then you end up with ammonia and nitrates in your pool to deal with. I took a water sample to Petsmart and got a free water test done (for aquariums). No ammonia, but 15 - 20 PPM nitrates. I don't know if I finally got on top of the ammonia by accidentally double-dosing my SLAM, or something else. I have read in this forum that nitrates are not to be concerned about - just keep FC high - but even if that was my original problem, I just could NOT keep FC! Finally, after that accidental double-dose, my pool seems to have turned a corner. FC continues to creep down, but for now, its not plummeting anymore. I decided to do a partial drain just for grins. We shall see if a bit of dilution helps the nitrate level, and ultimately my FC issues.

I wish you luck - this IS so frustrating (and expensive), so I definitely feel your pain!! Sadly, the pool store people have been clueless, so keep reading this forum and posting updates!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Unfortunately the only chemical that would cause an excessive chlorine demand like that would be if the former owner used a bromide-based algaecide in the water to deal with an algae bloom. Bromides will be converted into bromine by chlorine oxidation and then very quickly kill algae or react with UV light which then reduces them back into bromide. The cycle continues until all of the chlorine is spent. The previous owner would have had to use quite a bit of the product to create the FC demand you're seeing but it is not totally out of the question. If this were the case, only draining and dilution would fix the problem.

Of course, there's no simple way to easily test for bromine/bromide since it reacts the same as chlorine in all of the typical pool test kits. Only a very expensive water analysis using sophisticated gas/liquid chromatography could detect the presence of chlorine separate from bromine. Hardly worth it since water replacement will not cost as much.

You could still go grab an ammonia test kit to rule that possibility out. Otherwise, if a 50% water replacement is possible, you could try that to see if the FC demand goes down. If draining and refilling starts to solve the problem, then that would point to a chemical issue with the water.

 

[lightmaster]

Of course, there's no simple way to easily test for bromine/bromide since it reacts the same as chlorine in all of the typical pool test kits. Only a very expensive water analysis using sophisticated gas/liquid chromatography could detect the presence of chlorine separate from bromine. Hardly worth it since water replacement will not cost as much.

If they had a large amount of bromide in the pool, would that then show up as a high result on a chlorine test since they react the same in the tests? If so, then wouldn't the very low FC rule out high bromide?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If they had a large amount of bromide in the pool, would that then show up as a high result on a chlorine test since they react the same in the tests? If so, then wouldn't the very low FC rule out high bromide?

No.

The DPD test does not distinguish bromine from chlorine. It can be thought of as measuring the total sanitizer level - free chlorine + total bromine (DPD reacts with both free bromine and monobromamine). Therefore the total sanitizer level will just fall off rapidly as chlorine is consumed by bromide. Bromine is not stabilized against UV loss by CYA so it degrades rapidly in an outdoor pool from UV photolysis.

 

[kaminski54]

Another former Sustain product user?

With this kind of chlorine consumption, I'm leaning towards a former chemical addition and not organic/ living things based. Dead animals or algae can't use up the chlorine that fast for this amount of time and still be this inconspicuous.

I've searched an found a few hits on Sustain, but nothing definitive. Something about chlorine possibly bonding to the agent, but nothing definitive that I could find. Does anyone know about this and can explain it to me?

Thanks.

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So sorry you're dealing with this! I've been going through something very similar -- I cannot BELIEVE how many gallons of 10% I've used! I noticed my CYA (which has been historically 70-80) is now suddenly quite low. There are threads about how CYA can be degraded by bacteria and then you end up with ammonia and nitrates in your pool to deal with. I took a water sample to Petsmart and got a free water test done (for aquariums). No ammonia, but 15 - 20 PPM nitrates. I don't know if I finally got on top of the ammonia by accidentally double-dosing my SLAM, or something else. I have read in this forum that nitrates are not to be concerned about - just keep FC high - but even if that was my original problem, I just could NOT keep FC! Finally, after that accidental double-dose, my pool seems to have turned a corner. FC continues to creep down, but for now, its not plummeting anymore. I decided to do a partial drain just for grins. We shall see if a bit of dilution helps the nitrate level, and ultimately my FC issues.

I wish you luck - this IS so frustrating (and expensive), so I definitely feel your pain!! Sadly, the pool store people have been clueless, so keep reading this forum and posting updates!

Thanks for the encouragement! I've tested for ammonia... none. And I've added enough chlorine to quadruple shock with no sustained free chlorine levels. I appreciate you sharing with me.

 

[lightmaster]

Honestly, with as much money as you've already sunk into this (pun intended) and as much of a headache as this must be, I agree with several other people and say you should do several partial drains and refills. Just remember to leave 1 foot in your shallow end.

Also, would it be possible for you to run a plumber's snake down your pipes to see if there's anything caught up in the pipes?

 

[Suz.E.Q]

Happy to provide encouragement! Here is the link to my thread in case anything in that is of interest to you. I really was in complete amazement over how much shock I put into the pool and ended up with NOTHING in a very short period of time (and my pool wasn't green - just milky hazy)! When I talked to a pool store person about my SLAM plan, they looked at me like I had 3 eyes and they didn't seem to believe me. When I told them my goal was to keep a FC level of 30, they told me that " in our 30 years of experience, no one has EVER chlorinated their pool to that level," and other such blather. Yes, they scared me a bit, but then I came home and re-read postings on this website, and I also found out that chlorine is used at much higher PPM to clean kitchen surfaces. That helped quite a bit! http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf

For what it's worth, I stayed home the day of that accidental double-SLAM and tested hourly, adding additional jugs as DPD testing indicated. I wanted to kick whatever was in my pool in the butt HARD!

I think it might be interesting to see if your CYA is starting to degrade, as mine did...

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/148020-Newbie-and-SLAMming-questions-questions

 

[kaminski54]

Honestly, with as much money as you've already sunk into this (pun intended) and as much of a headache as this must be, I agree with several other people and say you should do several partial drains and refills. Just remember to leave 1 foot in your shallow end.

Also, would it be possible for you to run a plumber's snake down your pipes to see if there's anything caught up in the pipes?

I think I will do that. I just can't keep going like this, or afford it! I can't imagine what could be in there that could cause this. If I drain and refill (several times) and get the same result, I seriously might just bury it. Any advice on sanitation while draining/refilling. Obviously, I will turn off my SWCG, but what about sanitizing the new water? Thanks.

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Happy to provide encouragement! Here is the link to my thread in case anything in that is of interest to you. I really was in complete amazement over how much shock I put into the pool and ended up with NOTHING in a very short period of time (and my pool wasn't green - just milky hazy)! When I talked to a pool store person about my SLAM plan, they looked at me like I had 3 eyes and they didn't seem to believe me. When I told them my goal was to keep a FC level of 30, they told me that " in our 30 years of experience, no one has EVER chlorinated their pool to that level," and other such blather. Yes, they scared me a bit, but then I came home and re-read postings on this website, and I also found out that chlorine is used at much higher PPM to clean kitchen surfaces. That helped quite a bit! http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf

For what it's worth, I stayed home the day of that accidental double-SLAM and tested hourly, adding additional jugs as DPD testing indicated. I wanted to kick whatever was in my pool in the butt HARD!

I think it might be interesting to see if your CYA is starting to degrade, as mine did...

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/148020-Newbie-and-SLAMming-questions-questions

How much chlorine (jugs) did you end up adding? Just wondering if it was anywhere close to where I am at. Thanks for the links!

 

[mknauss]

Add bleach to maintain at least 3 ppm of FC until you get CYA in your water. Once you are on a final fill, use the hoses running into the pool to help dissolve the CYA.

Take care.

 

[lightmaster]

I do think a plumber's snake would be beneficial, scrape the walls of the pipes and see if you get any algae, and whether it feels like you you hit a dead animal inside a pipe. Animals probably unlikely if you haven't had any circulation issues, but you never know.

 

[lightmaster]

Also, I don't recall you posting the dates of your chlorine bottles. Are you certain the chlorine has any actual chlorine left in it? Maybe dilute some chlorine in water and do the simple yellow or clear chlorine test that comes in the small blue box. Not sure how much to dilute it, just an idea to make sure it's still fresh.

 

[Suz.E.Q]

I think I will do that. I just can't keep going like this, or afford it! I can't imagine what could be in there that could cause this. If I drain and refill (several times) and get the same result, I seriously might just bury it. Any advice on sanitation while draining/refilling. Obviously, I will turn off my SWCG, but what about sanitizing the new water? Thanks.

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How much chlorine (jugs) did you end up adding? Just wondering if it was anywhere close to where I am at. Thanks for the links!

I seriously lost count, but my best guess in looking at the container carnage I have here now (garbage went out Tuesday with the first wave) is at least 45+, in addition to 5 bags of cal-hypo at the beginning. You have me beat, for sure, but I also didn't have a green pool, and my pool is half your volume.

Also a hint - I purchased another bottle of the 871 reagent - that's the one I've been blowing through the most. Another hint - you only need one scoop of the DPD powder - not two. It will last twice as long, and the results are the same!

 

[kaminski54]

I do think a plumber's snake would be beneficial, scrape the walls of the pipes and see if you get any algae, and whether it feels like you you hit a dead animal inside a pipe. Animals probably unlikely if you haven't had any circulation issues, but you never know.

Will do. Don't want to leave any stone (or chipmunk) unturned.

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Also, I don't recall you posting the dates of your chlorine bottles. Are you certain the chlorine has any actual chlorine left in it? Maybe dilute some chlorine in water and do the simple yellow or clear chlorine test that comes in the small blue box. Not sure how much to dilute it, just an idea to make sure it's still fresh.

All chlorine was above 200th week of 2017. Thanks.

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Man, ok. Makes me want to try to man the pool and test every 30 minutes. I guess I can give it one last try before drain/refill. Tough decisions!

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I seriously lost count, but my best guess in looking at the container carnage I have here now (garbage went out Tuesday with the first wave) is at least 45+, in addition to 5 bags of cal-hypo at the beginning. You have me beat, for sure, but I also didn't have a green pool, and my pool is half your volume.

Man, ok. Makes me want to try to man the pool and test every 30 minutes. I guess I can give it one last try before drain/refill. Tough decisions!

 

[Suz.E.Q]

Will do. Don't want to leave any stone (or chipmunk) unturned.

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All chlorine was above 200th week of 2017. Thanks.

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Man, ok. Makes me want to try to man the pool and test every 30 minutes. I guess I can give it one last try before drain/refill. Tough decisions!

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Man, ok. Makes me want to try to man the pool and test every 30 minutes. I guess I can give it one last try before drain/refill. Tough decisions!

I think testing every 30 minutes might not give the best results - seems like SLAM instructions say no more often than 60 minutes... but I understand your desire to do it non-stop!