New Owner - Terrible Experience with Pool Installer

[TC1006]

Hey, Folks, I found this site after searching for places to learn about saltwater pools. Our pool guy has finished about 85% of the work but has not shown up for a few weeks and won't even reply or call us back. He rushed everything to finish the pool and left the job without educating us. We feel completely stuck with a brand-new pool.

I have spent several hours reading on this site and watching videos to learn about the various components of the pool, and I am starting to grasp everything. To make things worse, we have plans to host a bunch of people this upcoming weekend and nervous about screwing things up.

Here is the list of the equipment that was just installed.

• 16x40 Fiberglass Shell. 14000 Gallons
• Jandy VSFloPro Pump 1.85 HP
• Jandy JEP-R Variable Speed Pump Controller
• Jandy 340 Sq. Ft. CV Series Cartridge Filter
• Jandy True Clear Salt Chlorinator
• Jandy JXIQ Pool Heater, 260K BTU

I'm waiting for some test strips and the Water Guru Sense 2 meter to arrive in the mail, which will help me get the pool readings daily. I plan to take a sample to Leslie's for the initial reading tomorrow.

So far, the only measurement I have is salinity, and it's around 3000.
The SWG unit is running at 50% chlorination.

My primary questions are around these areas:

• Pump Run Time - Our pool is running 24x7 at 2810 speed. I don't know if that's good or bad, but feel like it's going to raise the electric bill through the roof. What is the recommended run time and speed(s) chart we should be following? I came across some videos that show how to set a schedule for e-star and #2 buttons.
• Multi-Port Valve—My friends all have a multi-port valve with their equipment, which allows them to backwash and use the waste function when vacuuming with a hose. Do we need that? How else do we perform maintenance functions?
• Automation—Is it difficult to install an automation system after the fact? I regret not selecting this earlier due to cost, but the convenience of operating the pool via an app would be super helpful.
• Flow meter - Are these things worth getting installed?
• Sacrificial Anode - Are these things a must-have or nice-to-have for Saltwater pools?
• Do you have any other recommendations I should consider?

Here is a picture of our setup. I hope that helps.

 

[casiokid]

If you spent several hours on this site, you’ll know the first response is going to be to throw away the test strips as soon as they arrive, stay out of the pool store and buy a recommended test kit!

The WaterGuru can be useful if and when you really get to know your pool’s chemistry and are going on vacation. Otherwise, it is not reliable enough to maintain your pool to TFP standards. I have one and it’s wrong by quite a bit on all of the measurements, but it’s fine for an general “eye on things” if I’m on vacation.

If your salinity measurement is coming from the SWG, that’s also likely not totally accurate as they usually have up to a +\- 400ppm error rate. Make sure to include a salt option with whichever test you end up buying.

With a variable speed pump, you’ll benefit from running it 24/7 at low RPMs. Find the RPM that will trigger the flow sensor on your SWG and bump it up by 100. That will give your SWG proper flow and you can generate a little chlorine all day. It costs me $15/month to run my pump 24/7. That’s the benefit of a VS Pump!

It’s definitely more difficult to add the automation after the fact, but not impossible.

I’m sure others will come along and comment on some of your other questions!

Congrats on the new pool and welcome to the forum!

PS - get a recommended test kit.

 

[wireform]

While automation sounds pretty there's really not much it can do for you remotely especially that it's only a pool and not a pool spa combo. The vsp and SWCG are set it and forget it for various times of the season once you get to know the pool and equipment but testing is always necessary.
Multi port valve is with sand and DE filters but not on cartridge filters. Flow meters are not needed on a system like yours. Sacrificial anode also not needed as most pool don't have one. You'd be in a better position if you were waiting for one of the recommended test kits to arrive.
Test Kits Compared
The TF-100 PRO SALT kit is the best money you can spend on your pool now.

 

[tgurske]

For now, I would focus on chlorine and testing. If you have chlorine in the pool you should be good for this weekend. Once you get a good test kit you can set the other levels.

I think the pump should cycle the whole volume at least once a day. See if this helps: Pool Pump Savings Calculator | Jandy

 

[ajw22]

I think the pump should cycle the whole volume at least once a day.

We recommend that you run the pump for a reason.

1. To make chlorine if you have a SWCG or use a (shudder) tab feeder
2. To Skim the pool water
3. To run a water feature
4. To run a heater
5. To run a spa

Notice no where in that list did I mention "turnover". That is because chemicals keep your pool clear, sanitized and algae free, not the number of times your pool water passes through your filter. The idea that you have to turnover your pool water x times a days is an old myth.

 

[ajw22]

I'm waiting for some test strips and the Water Guru Sense 2 meter to arrive in the mail, which will help me get the pool readings daily. I plan to take a sample to Leslie's for the initial reading tomorrow.

Get a good test kit. We recommend the Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits. The TFT kits are a better value.

Test Kits Compared

Return the test strips and the Water Guru if you can.

You should be reading…

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

• Pump Run Time - Our pool is running 24x7 at 2810 speed. I don't know if that's good or bad, but feel like it's going to raise the electric bill through the roof. What is the recommended run time and speed(s) chart we should be following? I came across some videos that show how to set a schedule for e-star and #2 buttons.

Pump run time depends on your SWG % and how much runtime the cell needs to generate your required daily chlorine.

PoolMath helps you calculate that.

Minimum pump RPM is based on which device in your system needs the most flow. That is your heater needing around 40 GPM.

2800 RPM is probably too high, but better high then low. You can lower it to 2400 RPM but I would not go lower until you get more experience with your system and understand your equipment better. Too low water flow can damage your heater.

• Multi-Port Valve—My friends all have a multi-port valve with their equipment, which allows them to backwash and use the waste function when vacuuming with a hose. Do we need that? How else do we perform maintenance functions?

You have a cartridge filter that does not use an MPV or backwash.

Cartridge Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Get a robot pool cleaner and forget about trying to vacuum into your filter. Read the Pool Cleaners section for ideas.

• Automation—Is it difficult to install an automation system after the fact? I regret not selecting this earlier due to cost, but the convenience of operating the pool via an app would be super helpful.

Not difficult if you know what you are doing.

It will be more expensive now then before.

• Flow meter - Are these things worth getting installed?

No. It’s a gadget not necessary.

• Sacrificial Anode - Are these things a must-have or nice-to-have for Saltwater pools?

Not necessary.

• Do you have any other recommendations I should consider?

Get a recommended test kit.

Read Pool School

Stay out of Pool Stores.

Automation and tech gadgets are not your answer. Learn the basics of how your pool equipment works and pool water chemistry.

 

[TC1006]

Thanks, Everyone, for your replies. Here are the results of the first test. I entered all of the information into the PoolMath app.

I used the recommended quantity for the Liquid Chlorine and only added 2 lbs of Stabilizer, even though the app recommended nearly 8 pounds. I was just a little afraid to add so much. I'll add more tomorrow. I also need to go purchase some Muriatic Acid to bring the pH down.

I have a question about adding Salt. I bought a digital sale meter that reads ~3100. Their tests through another meter showed 2700. What should I believe? Is there a more accurate test to confirm?

The app also recommends that I bring the calcium hardness by adding 33 lbs of calcium chloride. Seems a lot but I guess I just have to trust the process.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.
The data you have entered does not appear to be from a proper test kit. Do not make large chemical additions until you have a proper test kit to get your pool water chemistry data.

 

[TC1006]

Thanks, @mknauss! The results were input from the water testing a local pool store did for me. Here is the link to the actual printout. They made many recommendations, but I obviously did not take them.

 

[casiokid]

Again, those results from the pool store mean nothing. You will save yourself so much time, money, and headache from just buying one of the recommended test kits.

As stated above, do not make large changes in your pool chemistry with anyone else’s results but your own.

 

[TC1006]

Again, those results from the pool store mean nothing. You will save yourself so much time, money, and headache from just buying one of the recommended test kits.

As stated above, do not make large changes in your pool chemistry with anyone else’s results but your own.

Thanks @casiokid I'm ordering the TFT kits now. Do you know what the difference between SmartStir and Taylor Speed Stir is? Are there any other recommended add-ons?

 

[TC1006]

Also, perhaps a loaded question - Are there good brands of Chemicals I should be looking out for? I feel like my most immediate need is CYA.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Get the TF100Pro that comes with the Smart Stir. Winner, winner. Muriatic acid in 31.45% is best. Liquid chlorine to get things started can be found at Walmart, Home Depot or other local outlets that others will know in the midwest. You can add 1/2 gallon per day until the water is properly tested. Then run the pump to mix the chlorine in. Stay away from any tabs or pucks. The CYA is what you already added. The best way is with granulated CYA put into an old sock (without holes in it) and hung in front of a water return to the pool. This is called the sock method. Every 1/2 hour or so you can squeeze the sock to release more of the stabilizer.

 

[casiokid]

Awesome! You’re already well on your way to a TFP pool! I don’t have either of the speed stirrers, but everyone who does have one here swears by them. I’m sure someone will come along to give their recommendations.

I don’t think there’s ONE type of brand for chemicals. Just stay away from anything with copper, scents, or other additives in it.

You’ll really only be buying muriatic acid and maybe some liquid chlorine most of the time. That’s it!

As for the CYA, I use the liquid stabilizer which is more expensive, but pretty much dissolves overnight. I don’t have any experience with the granular stabilizer, but others will be along to comment!

Good luck! You got this. Please feel free to ask any other questions. Everyone here is super friendly and will be more than happy to help out.

 

[wireform]

As for the CYA, I use the liquid stabilizer which is more expensive, but pretty much dissolves overnight. I don’t have any experience with the granular stabilizer, but others will be along to comment!

We don't recommend the liquid unless you need the complete jug because the sludge remains on the bottom which is impossible to mix and use half. Most here use granular via the "SOCK METHOD" and once it's in the water consider it done and accounted for.

 

[Newdude]

Get the TF100Pro that comes with the Smart Stir

*Tfpro salt.

It adds the $30 salt test for only $20 more, making it an even better value.

The difference between the smart stir and the speed stir is the shape. For OCD folks, the rounded smart stir sits nicer in the case but they both function the same.

Most here use granular via the "SOCK METHOD

Here's a visual and it's up to you if you'd like to use multiple socks when needed or something larger.

How to add large batches of CYA

Hey Folks !!! With a large pool, I need 4lbs of CYA to only raise it 15, and I don't think I have that many socks without holes in them. So I use a Tshirt. Plus, I like that it's doubled up for redundancy. But it can also be scaled down with socks. So I measure out my dose and...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[sande005]

About CH - again, only trust the results from your new test kit, after you get it!

Modern fiberglass pools usually don't care about CH levels. But your heater might. Jandy recommends a CH level of 200-300 (200-400 for the SWCG), so if your testing comes out to close to what the pool store said, you are almost there. You might want to also test the water (non-softened) in the house for CH. If your house water is higher, than you may only need to add more water to get to 200. This is only a concern to keep them from denying a warranty claim, if anything else goes wrong during that period.

Jandy, in their manuals, have a section about "Saturation Index" (an additional escape clause for warranty coverage). PoolMath has an option to also display that, and does the math for you. It is a combined effect of pH, Alkalinity, CH and Temp. It is a moving target, with one of the factors being temperature. So it is easy to dose for one level in the early spring when the water is cold, and then find targets need to change as it gets warm (or is heated). The hard part is CH - if you do too much, the only way to get rid of it is to drain water off, and replace with less hard water. Play with the variables in PoolMath, to see what changing one or more factors does to the overall score. Note that to get a good index, it may push you a little high or low in pH or Alk targets listed here or initially in PoolMath. You might get high/low warnings in PoolMath, unless you customize what your targets should be. Just don't set them to be outside of the recommended safe ranges in PoolMath.

After warranty - most of us with vinyl or fiberglass just turn off the option to display CSI, and only worry about CH if it gets really high (over 500).
In the end, too high CH can result in hard water build up on the SWCG. Too low is a non-issue. Alkalinity and pH are the big concerns for the equipment - so we concentrate on managing that, and usually ignore CH.

I'm guessing you used house/city water to fill the pool - so like me, you may be blessed with lower natural CH levels. Our friends in the desert have outrageously high amounts.
If you elect to add to increase your CH level, use only 94% pure (or better) Calcium Chloride. Sidewalk deicers sold at hardware stores can be far cheaper than CH at pool stores. As you will find from PoolMath, it can take a lot to move the needle. Be very carful if shopping for deicer - most contain a variety of other chemicals that you never want in your pool. Here's one I got this year - Snow Joe 20 lb. 94% Pure Calcium Chloride Ice Melt Pellets MELT20CPP - The Home Depot , but other varieties of even the same brand are not the same.

Here's more than you may want to know: Calcium Hardness - Further Reading

 

[TC1006]

@Newdude - Thanks for the recommendation. 4 lbs on CYA in place.

 

[Newdude]

It doesn't need to be that far out. Preferably it goes 2 to 3 ft in front of a running return so it has lots of water movement to soak it down.

But definitely not shabby for your fist attempt.

 

[casiokid]

We don't recommend the liquid unless you need the complete jug because the sludge remains on the bottom which is impossible to mix and use half. Most here use granular via the "SOCK METHOD" and once it's in the water consider it done and accounted for.

I only use the complete jug and when I do, it’s much easier than the sock method.

I’m not a fan of hanging a sock in our pool in our beautiful yard. It ruins the resort vibe! LOL