New motor needed, looking for thoughts

[1poolman1]

Ok, new whisperflo VST is in. A little excitement after install as I noticed no comms cable to automation. When I questioned that I was told that the pump is not compatible with automation. But the pump will turn on/off per my automation jut like the old one . A call to store owner clarified that they have no cables in store and when they arrive I will be scheduled for cable install.

Only other thing bothering be is the offset connector into pump (was told that had to be done). Should I be concerned with this (see pic). Also told "keep speed below 3K otherwise may blow pipes".

The offset is not the best, but OK, done all the time to accommodate a new pump . Biggest concern is that the installer used standard PVC fittings and threaded them in all the way, bad on both counts. If you use your spa, those fittings will eventually start to leak as the material is not designed to stay stable above 90 degrees, it shrinks, especially under the pressure of the installation (not water pressure). Not a problem with the rest of the plumbing, but is at pump fittings. Hi-temp unions should have been used, or at least a CPVC nipple or male adapter and standard pool union. The same pipe adapters are going into your filter, but are CPVC, able to handle water up to about 140 degrees. More expensive and most likely came with the filter from Hayward. Do you have, or was a GFCI breaker installed with the pump? Needed to meet code.

Is the pump being turned on by a relay in your automation? The manual doesn't seem to address that (that I could find), but most VSP require constant power, regardless of what is controlling them. If it is being done that way, you will have no control over speeds when and if you use your spa without going directly to the pump and manually changing it.

Not likely to "blow your pipes" if the speed is over 3K, but, unless you need it for your spa, you wouldn't likely need anything approaching that speed.

 

[JamesW]

When I questioned that I was told that the pump is not compatible with automation.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/pumps/whisperflo-vst/user-guide/whisperflo-vst-install-and-users-guide.pdf

 

[JamesW]

External Control

This pump can be externally controlled via digital inputs using the RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324z).

See External Control via Digital Inputs, page 6.

The pump can be externally controlled by most Pentair control systems via an RS-485 connection using the RS-485 Automation Wiring Kit (P/N 356324z).

The pump address and other settings can be programmed from the pump's keypad.

See External Control via RS-485, page 5.

When connected to external controls, the pump will prioritize commands as follows:

RS-485 > Digital Inputs > Drive Programmed Schedule

Refer to the control system manual for further details on how to connect and program your pump with your control system.

WhisperFlo® VST Variable Speed Pool Pump

The WhisperFlo® VST Variable Speed Pump offers high quality, dependability, performance, and energy savings you can expect from variable speed pumps.

www.pentair.com

 

[JamesW]

The WhisperFlo VST looks like it has the same drive as the SuperFlo VS, which is compatible with Pentair Automation.

 

[guinness]

Ok, new whisperflo VST is in. A little excitement after install as I noticed no comms cable to automation. When I questioned that I was told that the pump is not compatible with automation. But the pump will turn on/off per my automation jut like the old one . A call to store owner clarified that they have no cables in store and when they arrive I will be scheduled for cable install.

Glad you got the store owner to acknowledge the cable install as that was included in the quote you got. The Whisperflo VST was only introduced in May this year so I'm guessing service techs are still learning about it. You just need cable 356324Z as already stated and hopefully they'll program the ET for you also. When they install the communication cable just remind them to move the pump electrical wiring from the load side of the relay to the line side.

 

[JamesW]

The Whisperflo VST was only introduced in May this year so I'm guessing service techs are still learning about it.

It's the same drive as the SuperFlo VS, so not really all that new.

Not sure why it would take more than 6 months to figure it out.

In any case, the pump comes with a manual, which explains everything.

 

[guinness]

Well the service tech said that it's not compatible with automation which is clearly wrong.

 

[JamesW]

Compatible since October 15 2020, which is about 2 years.

Also, it would be foolish for a company like Pentair, Hayward or Jandy to make a variable speed pump that was not compatible with their automation, so it’s just ignorant for a service provider to say that a pump is not compatible with automation, especially when they have no basis to make that claim.

External Control via RS-485

The following instructions only apply to SuperFlo VST and SuperMax VS pumps manufactured after 10/15/20.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/manuals/pool-pumps/superflovs/supervs-install-english.pdf

 

[guinness]

Also, it would be foolish for a company like Pentair, Hayward or Jandy to make a variable speed pump that was not compatible with their automation

Unless it's the Pentair IntelliConnect - but point taken, the service provider should be consulting the manual before making blanket statements.

 

[JamesW]

Well the service tech said that it's not compatible with automation which is clearly wrong.

My main point is that it's unacceptable for a service person to give the wrong answer to this question as they should know better.

I would have very little confidence in the competence of this service provider if they cannot even read the manual or use common sense.

 

[guinness]

And another reason to become a member and supporter of this site to become educated on these matters

 

[Kjhoffman]

Wow, so much to take in here ..my comments/questions:
Very good question on the GFCI. I guess I never really thought about it. The main panel is not a gfci. The Eztouch may not be either. Would it be obvious or would it be concealed in the EZT panel box ?

Sounds like the comms cable, when installed should allow for use of automation to control pump speeds. Did I get that right ?

Should pump run 24/7 till the comms cable installed ? Right now it is shutting down each day from the EZTouch timer. So it is set to run 10am to 430pm. If 24/7 should I program from the pump control to lower speed from 4pm to 10am or just leave as is?

Hi temp fittings I guess I need to call them back for that. Maybe when comms cable installed they can change out..

 

[guinness]

The GFCI breaker would be in your EasyTouch. Take a photo of the EasyTouch with the front panel removed and we can help you identify the breaker.

Once the comms cable is installed the EasyTouch will be able to control both on/off and speeds. For example, it can ramp up speed when in spa mode.

You can leave pump as it is, but it shouldn't have been wired to a relay. Even without a comms cable you can run a schedule from the pump controller.

 

[Kjhoffman]

EZT Innards

 

[guinness]

You have no GFCI breakers. You have a double-tapped breaker which is against code (unless indicated on breaker shown below). Assuming that the double pole breakers are for your pump and heater. What are the single pole breakers (at the bottom) used for? Do you have pool or spa lights?

 

[Kjhoffman]

Pool and spa lights as well as landscape lighting. I guess electrician who installed the EZT saved a few bucks
Do I need to replace all breakers with gfcis ?

 

[guinness]

If they were installed in 2000 (per your signature) then using GFCI breakers for pumps and heaters weren't in NEC. I believe pumps were added in 2008 NEC and heaters in 2017 NEC.

1975 NEC required GFCI protection for underwater light fixtures. 2002 NEC required outlets located within 20 feet of the pool be GFCI protected. Do you know if your pool/spa lights have any GFCI protection like through a GFCI outlet?

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JamesW]

Do I need to replace all breakers with gfcis ?

I would say yes.

Even if they were not required originally, they are required now and any replacement equipment requires GFCI protection.

 

[JamesW]

680.21(C) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors connected to single-phase, 120-volt through 240-volt branch circuits, whether by receptacle or by direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

680.21(D) Pool Pump Motor Replacement. Where a pool pump motor in 680.21(C) is replaced for maintenance or repair, the replacement pump motor shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

 

[Kjhoffman]

Well the pool was built in 2000. I had the Automation installed by electrician maybe around 2012. I wasnt here to see what he removed prior to the install, but assume at least the lights were gfci protected. I am not aware of any gfci protection on the lights separate from the EZT wiring. I guess my next home depot trip will be costly.