New H400FDN 1F won't start

[Whittakerj]

I see this question posted frequently so sorry I'm advance for the duplication.

I've read all these posts and I still can't figure out why this thing won't light. I took a video of my glass and it's glowing orange and clicking. What are my next steps here. This is a brand new unit.

2 new items by Jeremy Whittaker

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

The yellow flex gas line looks like it is probably undersized for the H400 heater.

Flex lines have to be rated for equal to or greater than the heater gas rating.

Check your gas pressures with a manometer.

Did you purge the air out of the gas line?

It can take a bunch of start tries before all the air is cleared from a gas line of a new install.

 

[ajw22]

 

[Whittakerj]

If I see the red glowing chamber what part of the troubleshooting does that eliminate?

 

[ajw22]

If I see the red glowing chamber what part of the troubleshooting does that eliminate?

To get fire you need air and gas in the right mixture and a spark. The glow of the igniter says you have the spark. So look at the air or gas.

 

[Whittakerj]

So I'm trying to fire this thing up all day, no luck. Probably 30-40 times throughout the day thinking I just needed to purge the air in the lines or something.

Last night I get the manometer. I plug it in to the manifold port and it fires on the first attempt...

 

[ajw22]

Just took one more time.

Glad you got it going.

Check that your flex gas line is correct specs.

 

[Whittakerj]

I recently bought a house with an existing pool and spa. They currently are independent bodies of water. I'm thinking about combing them into one because I installed a 400k gas heater in the spa which I would like to use to heat the pool. Plus I converted the pool to salt chlorinator which I would like to be able to take advantage of the salt on the spa side.

Currently these are controlled with a single omnilogic controller. I've attached images of the water and plumbing.

Is this a good or horrible idea? If it's not a bad idea how would I go about implementing this? Just cross connects the pump outputs? Could I then just install a decent size PVC pipe on the wall between the two so that the water level can balance?

 

[Whittakerj]

So I got this thing working independently but I'm trying to figure out now how to get it to be control by my omnilogic in bo mode. Does the Omnilogic have to have a flow switch sensor in order to control a spa? I know I had to put one on when I did my chlorinator on my pool side. I think my issue is related to my water sensor error. But figured I would ask about the flow switch so I can get one of those ordered if it's also going to be an issue.

Also is the input on the h400fdn for the control just simply a dry contact sensor closing signal? I read something about 24v but I wasn't exactly sure how these two devices interface each other.

 

[ajw22]

So I got this thing working independently but I'm trying to figure out now how to get it to be control by my omnilogic in bo mode. Does the Omnilogic have to have a flow switch sensor in order to control a spa? I know I had to put one on when I did my chlorinator on my pool side. I think my issue is related to my water sensor error. But figured I would ask about the flow switch so I can get one of those ordered if it's also going to be an issue.

Heater control will needs a functioning water temperature sensor to work.

The heater has an internal pressure switch and does not need an external flow switch.

Also is the input on the h400fdn for the control just simply a dry contact sensor closing signal?

Yes

I read something about 24v but I wasn't exactly sure how these two devices interface each other.

24V is supplied by the heater on the control loop.

 

[ajw22]

Does your spa spillover to the pool or are they two independent bodies of water?

Will you want to automate the switching of the heater between pool and spa or switch it manually?

 

[ajw22]

You do not want the water level of your pool and spa to “balance “. Your spa water needs to be separate from the pool so you can heat it independently.

Interconnected systems have a barrier between the spa and pool with a spillover higher then the pool water level so the system can be run with the spillover running and the water interconnected or the spillover off and the bodies of water isolated.

It does not look like your two bodies of water can easily be interconnected.

 

[kimkats]

I wonder if you could just put in some new piping from the heater to the pool plumbing with valves to control where the heated water is going?

 

[setsailsoon]

I recently bought a house with an existing pool and spa. They currently are independent bodies of water. I'm thinking about combing them into one because I installed a 400k gas heater in the spa which I would like to use to heat the pool. Plus I converted the pool to salt chlorinator which I would like to be able to take advantage of the salt on the spa side.

Currently these are controlled with a single omnilogic controller. I've attached images of the water and plumbing.

Is this a good or horrible idea? If it's not a bad idea how would I go about implementing this? Just cross connects the pump outputs? Could I then just install a decent size PVC pipe on the wall between the two so that the water level can balance?

As Kim says, if you only want to heat both bodies you should be able to do that with existing piping or addition of some piping. Same for chlorinating both bodies. Is the only reason for the change to combine heating and chlorination or is there something else you are trying to accomplish?

As far as doing the actual demo and reconstruction to combine both into one pool at the same level, yes it's possible. It would be expensive and in my opinion a bad idea. Your spa isn't that large so the pool won't be a lot larger. I think it looks pretty cool the way it is but like many things pool there's no right wrong just owner preference!

Good luck to you!

Chris

 

[Whittakerj]

Does your spa spillover to the pool or are they two independent bodies of water?

Will you want to automate the switching of the heater between pool and spa or switch it manually?

Two independent bodies. I would want to easily automate it.

 

[Whittakerj]

You do not want the water level of your pool and spa to “balance “. Your spa water needs to be separate from the pool so you can heat it independently.

Interconnected systems have a barrier between the spa and pool with a spillover higher then the pool water level so the system can be run with the spillover running and the water interconnected or the spillover off and the bodies of water isolated.

It does not look like your two bodies of water can easily be interconnected.

You're absolutely right I didn't think of this.

The spa is currently higher than the pool. What of I were to build some type of spillover. Could I then just put a valve to connect the pool pump output to the spa? So I could interconnect them when I wanted to but not always? Or is this a bad idea?

 

[Whittakerj]

I wonder if you could just put in some new piping from the heater to the pool plumbing with valves to control where the heated water is going?

I'm trying to get the benefit of the heater (sometimes) and the benefit of the chlorinator (always)

 

[Whittakerj]

As Kim says, if you only want to heat both bodies you should be able to do that with existing piping or addition of some piping. Same for chlorinating both bodies. Is the only reason for the change to combine heating and chlorination or is there something else you are trying to accomplish?

As far as doing the actual demo and reconstruction to combine both into one pool at the same level, yes it's possible. It would be expensive and in my opinion a bad idea. Your spa isn't that large so the pool won't be a lot larger. I think it looks pretty cool the way it is but like many things pool there's no right wrong just owner preference!

Good luck to you!

Chris

So I'm no trying to demo and make one but rather just figure out how to connect the two bodies. I think a spillover would make more sense.

I have only two goals, heat the pool when I want and get the salt chlorination in both bodies with one chlorinator ( I don't think the Omnilogic will support 2)

 

[Whittakerj]

Heater control will needs a functioning water temperature sensor to work.

The heater has an internal pressure switch and does not need an external flow switch.



Yes


24V is supplied by the heater on the control loop.

Thanks!

I don't understand this comment

"24V is supplied by the heater on the control loop."

If it's just a dry contact connector switch what's the purpose of the 24v? Or does the Omnilogic close this loop allowing the 24v to flow between its two connections?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Whit,

In the big picture, you need to do three things..

1. Have some kind of spillover from the spa into the pool.. This can be an actual spillover, or a pipe that acts as a spillover.
2. You will need to replumb the Intake side of your pool pump, so that you can select either the spa drain or the Skimmer/Main drain..
3. You will need to replumb the Return side of your pool plumbing, so that you can send water back to the Spa, or pool, or send a little water to the spa for your spillover and the rest of the water back to your pool.

Thanks,

Jim R.