New Construction Started - Willis, TX (north of Houston)

[JamesW]

You will get better performance with the line to the filter open.

The flow automatically reaches a dynamic equilibrium where the head loss on both paths is the same.

 

[Duffatola]

So, I would use (2) 2.5" lines to connect to a 4" T near the main drain so that you are not trying to connect a 4" line to a single port.

I think that ship has sailed?

 

[Duffatola]

You will get better performance with the line to the filter open.

That seem odds to me but you know more about flow science/hydraulics than I ever will.

 

[Duffatola]

I think that the ports take 2.5".

Now that I think about it, I believe that drain line is a 2.5". Assume they'll just add a a 4"x2.5" reducer and run 4" to the pad where it'll reduce down to 3" to connect to the pump?

 

[JamesW]

I think that ship has sailed?

Ok, seems like common sense to me that they should know that you don't want to create a choke point.

That creates a section with excessive velocity.

That seem odds to me but you know more about flow science/hydraulics than I ever will.

You are giving the water a different path to go through, which reduces the total amount of head loss.

Every extra path reduces the head loss.

 

[Duffatola]

Ok, seems like common sense to me that they should know that you don't want to create a choke point.

I believe this company tries to do right but they've told me many times, I'm more involved and "educated" than most all of their clients. To that end they are surprised at some of my requests and think it's overkill. They looked at me like I was from Mars when I mentioned 3" drain lines and now after requesting even larger lines, they may think I should be institutionalized. This education is a year in the making and I learn more each day. Unfortunately I didn't know any better as far as that drain is concerned. I'm striving to stay ahead of the curve.

You are giving the water a different path to go through, which reduces the total amount of head loss.

Every extra path reduces the head loss.

Good 'nuff.

 

[JamesW]

Most builders just go by rule of thumb and they don't really understand the hydraulic calculations.

 

[Duffatola]

For the bypass, I would just put a 2-way valve on the bypass.

You can add an actuator if you want or do it manually.

Are you referring to the 2-way valve in terms of adding an actuator? This is a valve I'd want to control remotely.

 

[JamesW]

Are you referring to the 2-way valve in terms of adding an actuator? This is a valve I'd want to control remotely.

Yes, you can use an actuator on the two way valve.

 

[Duffatola]

Infinity Edge plumbing (revised):

 

[Duffatola]

Yes, you can use an actuator on the two way valve.

Thanks, just wanted to ensure you were referring to the 2-way on the bypass and not the 3-way I originally had on the plan. Water feature plumbing is forth coming.

I watched a couple of new videos as well as rewatched a couple of others with regards to the Intellicenter. One of the "new' videos mentioned some improvements for 2022 (new/better antenna, a new RS 45 cable and Intellisync - not sure that's new and/or improved). I'm starting to get re-engaged with regards to the controller and will circle back in the thread to that topic.

 

[JamesW]

Thanks, just wanted to ensure you were referring to the 2-way on the bypass a

Correct, you can put the Intellivalve on the 2-way to open when you want.

The pump can actually measure "estimated" flow in GPM, system PSI and Power Usage in Watts.

I don't know if the automation reports the numbers in the newest software.

In the old software, you have to put the system into "Service" mode to read these numbers from the keypad.

It would be nice if the automation can automatically open the bypass if the pump measured over 120 GPM, but I don't know if there is a way to do that.

 

[Duffatola]

But first... back to the filter system.

Let's say I want to operate in Spa mode and want the water heated. I'd close the port on the 3-way valve feeding the heater bypass, therefore flow would be directed toward the heater. Now flow can either go through the heater AND/OR(?) the spring loaded bypass. Is it a function of the spring bypass to open if the flow is too great and may damage the heater (internal cv perhaps?).

BTW, no word from Pentair regarding the spring rating.

 

[JamesW]

BTW, no word from Pentair regarding the spring rating.

It's unlikely that you will be able to get to anyone who will understand this.

I'd close the port on the 3-way valve feeding the heater bypass, therefore flow would be directed toward the heater.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/parts-sheets/heaters/pentair_heater_auto_bypass_valve_replacement%20_kit.pdf

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/parts-sheets/heaters/pentair_heater_auto_bypass_valve_replacement%20_kit.pdf

The heater should open the valve on call for heat.

Now flow can either go through the heater AND/OR(?) the spring loaded bypass. Is it a function of the spring bypass to open if the flow is too great and may damage the heater (internal cv perhaps?).

The spring should only open once the flow to the heater is 40 GPM or greater.

 

[JamesW]

Regarding the 3.5 lb. check valve bypass, I believe that it will work as described, however, on the Pentair Ultratemp (Heat Pump), they use a 12 lb. check valve bypass, which I think is incorrect, but maybe I am missing something.

I would recommend that you confirm with Pentair that a 3.5 lb. bypass would be correct for the MasterTemp before you use it.

I would also verify that the flow gets to 40 GPM, or higher, in the heater before the 3.5 lb check valve begins to bypass flow around the heater.

In any case, using the 3.5 lb check valve is at your discretion and risk.

The flow switch can help ensure that the flow is adequate.

 

[Duffatola]

Water feature pump plumbing plan:

 

[JamesW]

The line on the pump discharge should be 3".

You probably don't need the check valve or the two-way in front of the pump.

The lines to the bubblers can be 1.5".

 

[Duffatola]

It's unlikely that you will be able to get to anyone who will understand this.

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/parts-sheets/heaters/pentair_heater_auto_bypass_valve_replacement%20_kit.pdf

View attachment 427400
View attachment 427402

https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/pentair-pool/residential/parts-sheets/heaters/pentair_heater_auto_bypass_valve_replacement%20_kit.pdf

The heater should open the valve on call for heat.

The spring should only open once the flow to the heater is 40 GPM or greater.

It seems this incorporated on the plan?

 

[JamesW]

Correct.

 

[Duffatola]

The line on the pump discharge should be 3".

You probably don't need the check valve or the two-way in front of the pump.

The lines to the bubblers can be 1.5".

I had two in for the bubblers all along but may drop down to 1.5".