New Construction: Cathedral City CA

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OK, the chemistry setting is correct, so you're good there. Now look at the CYA calculator. It's recommending 30-50, and you're at 34 or 35 or 40, whatever, but you're within range. For whatever reason, your target value is set to 75, which is incorrect (it's even warning you about that, in italics). And that was about to lead you into adding too much CYA (for now). The calculators allow you to put in any target value you want, so you have to be careful that entry is consistent with TFP's recommended levels. Check all your calculators to make sure you're using them correctly.

The rest of your questions I'll leave to a TFP expert. I don't like to stray down the chemistry path too far without one of them holding my hand...
 
Dirk said:
... For whatever reason, your target value is set to 75, which is incorrect (it's even warning you about that, in italics)... Check all your calculators to make sure you're using them correctly.
Click to expand...

Thanks for catching that Dirk, I did not enter that in there, at least I don't recall. I wonder if they were set to those numbers when I first had it set to Salt and Pool Math did not adjust them I changed the settings to Bleach a few days ago. I'll post what Pool Math has as targets now and will see if Kim or someone else will chime in as to what I should change them to.

POOL MATH
FC: 3.0-6.0 with a target of 4 (Dirk I have it noted that you suggested it set to 5 for wiggle room)
PH: 7.2-7.8 with a target of 7.4
TA: 70-90 with a target of 70
CH: 250-350 with a target of 400
CYA: 30-50 NOW with a target of 40

 
I would not work on the CH for a little while. I want you to watch it over the next two weeks to see if it goes up on it's own with it being new plaster. Only test it once a week for the next two weeks.

FC-I want you to take it to 6.0 for the rest of the week. Keep close track of how much you lose each day. We will address this again at the end of the week.

PH-When it hits 8.0 take it back down to 7.5.

TA-keep a close eye on it as when you push the PH down it also pushes down the TA a bit.

CYA-Lets let it ride where it is at for now. You can go ahead and buy some more but don't put it in yet.

The only correction I am going to make to what PoolGate said about adding chemicals is to wait about 15 mins between adding the muriatic acid and chlorine. I am a scardy cat about the fact they don't play well together. I will leave it up to you as to which way to do it.

Adding CYA-you are correct you would not want it to sit on the plaster. I tie mine on a broom handle and let it hang over the edge so it dangles in front of the return if I don't walk around squeezing it all out in one time.

Did I hit it all? If not let me know!

Kim:kim:
 
Those ranges and targets now look better, except for CH (target out of range). But be careful about just pumping chem's into your pool just to reach those targets. I would even muster up a "Don't do that yet." in this case. The nuances of what you adjust, and how, and when, and what you don't adjust, along with what end of the ranges are optimal for your new pool, is the part of TFPC I'm still learning myself. Add to that the fact that you will be converting to SWG soon, and we really need a sharp TFP expert to guide you through.

Keep the FC at 5 or 6. There, I'll go out on a limb with that one! ;)

Post your current test results and ask "Whaz up?" and someone will come along and help you.


I think you may have guessed right about where that 75 came from. I'm confident in Pool Math app calculations, but I've seen interface glitches like that before, where something doesn't update as it should when you switch something else. If you can recreate that, then bug-report it. 'cause I know you have plenty of free time just now!! ;)

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, Kim snuck in ahead of me. Defer to her, of course. Where did I say/imply/write muriatic with chlorine? I hope you misread that, and I didn't write that, 'cause I know better...

Kim's note-it was NOT Dirk. I fixed it in my post!
 
I keep getting error messages when I try to post ...

OH so that worked...

- - - Updated - - -

Just tried again - I wonder if assigning color to some of the text was a problem, or including too many links like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Gal-Swimming-Pool-Muriatic-Acid-2-Pack-10014HDX/206809290. Is twogallons too much to have on stock?

OK that whet through... very odd.

Here's a part of what I've been trying to post since last night.

Thank you all for getting be through another day! Here's my reply to Kim's responses.

FC - 2.5 Pool Math says to add 19 oz of 10% chlorine
[Kim] FC-I want you to take it to 6.0 for the rest of the week. Keep close track of how much you lose each day. We will address this again at the end of the week. (note: allow 15 minutes between administering chlorine and muriatic acid)

[York] Ok -I re tested this evening and the FC dropped to 2.0. I bought the 10% chlorine at Home Depot and PMath calculated 25oz. I put this in at 7pm near a return jet in the deep end furthest away from the skimmer. The pump is scheduled to end it’s 12 hour shift at 8pm. I’ll set it to go for a few hours more. I will re test tomorrow morning after the pump has been on for a couple more hours.

PH - 7.8 Pool Math says to add 8.9 oz (by volume) or 22oz (by weight) of 14.5% muraitic acid.
[Kim] When it hits 8.0 take it back down to 7.5. (note: allow 15 minutes between administering chlorine and muriatic acid)

[York] Ok - so PMath says when it hits 8.0 to add 21 oz of 14.5% muriatic acid. Is it ok for me to buy this at Home Depot? https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Gal-Swimming-Pool-Muriatic-Acid-2-Pack-10014HDX/206809290. Is two gallons too much to have on stock?

I read that I need to be extra careful of fumes and splashing. I’ll wear goggles and gloves. Are these overkill? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grease-Monkey-Long-Cuff-Neoprene-Cleaning-Gloves-Large-24103-012/202759378.

I’m considering getting a larger measuring cup where I can measure of the correct amount away from the pools coping. Probably in our nearby side yard which will be decomposed granite, then bring it over to the pool. I still have more reading to do t see what others have done.
 
It allowed me to add the text by editing my last post. Here's more ... but as a new post.

TA - 70 Pool Math says it’s OK
[Kim] TA-keep a close eye on it as when you push the PH down it also pushes down the TA a bit.
[York] OK

CH - 230
[Kim] Iwould not work on the CH for a little while. I want you to watch it over the next two weeks to see if it goes up on it's own with it being new plaster. Only test it once a week for the next two weeks.
[York] OK - I’ll mark my calendar for next Monday to test it and let you know the numbers.


CYA - 34 Pool Math says to add 55 oz of dry stabilizer.
[Kim] CYA-Lets let it ride where it is at for now. You can go ahead and buy some more but don’t put it in yet.
[York] Is this one from Home Depot ok? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pool-Time-5-lb-Chlorine-Stabilizer-23517PTM/302895487

Or this one at Lowes is just the same price but 1lb less https://www.lowes.com/pd/Clorox-Pool-Spa-4-lb-Stabilizer-Pool-Balancer/50332983.

About administering the stabilizer. Do you see a problem with me using a skimmer sock?

[Kim] Theonly correction I am going to make to what Dirk said about adding chemicals is to wait about 15 mins between adding the muriatic acid and chlorine. I am a scardy catabout the fact they don't play well together. I will leave it up to you as to which way to do it.

Calcium Chloride: (crystals)
[York] Are either of these ok? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diamond-Crystal-40-lb-Pool-Salt-110002702/100561401 or https://www.homedepot.com/p/Morton-40-lbs-Pool-Salt-3460/100575298


When PMath suggests to administer multiple chemicals, it sounds like there are no restrictions to the order or time in between administering them - with the exception of 15 minutes between chlorine and muriatic acid.

Should I re-test the next day to track the results?

Is there a way to log the actual chemistry I add? Or do I just put it in the section marked Notes?

I see there is a place in PMath to Backup Data, I was hoping that would create a file I could printout or export to excel, but that does not seem to be the case. Is there a way to do that?

 
Last portion of the post:

Calcium Chloride: (crystals)
[York] Are either of these ok? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diamond-Crystal-40-lb-Pool-Salt-110002702/100561401 or https://www.homedepot.com/p/Morton-40-lbs-Pool-Salt-3460/100575298


When PMath suggests to administer multiple chemicals, it sounds like there are no restrictions to the order or time in between administering them - with the exception of 15 minutes between chlorine and muriatic acid.

Should I re-test the next day to track the results?

Is there a way to log the actual chemistry I add? Or do I just put it in the section marked Notes?

I see there is a place in PMath to Backup Data, I was hoping that would create a file I could printout or export to excel, but that does not seem to be the case. Is there a way to do that?
 
OMG, I've created a color monster!! Now I understand why I was chastised here for pumping my posts full of questions and bold and fonts! Yikes.

OK, I'll leave that all to a TFP expert, except for one thing. Nooooo on the measuring cup idea. Geez, this is like talking to 3-months-ago Dirk!! ;)

I burned my deck doing that exact thing. I see you, a bit back there on my path!! Where I monkeyed with TFP advice because I applied my own seemingly-brilliant logic. Just be careful that, these guys have been-there-done-that, and have already made or watched others make all the mistakes that lead them eventually to the best ideas and methods, which they share here. At least you have the good sense, which I lacked, to ask about such things here first! Wish I had.

I just explored at great length the best way to add MA to my pool. It's all in one of my threads, for another time. And while I did eventually modify the TFP advice about it (contradicting what I was just preaching!), it was only to extend their method a bit safer, and didn't alter it to any great degree. Short version: carry the MA container to the pool in a bucket. Open and dispense the MA, from the original container to your pool, only while holding it over the water, with or without the measuring cup. Replace the cap. Rinse everything in the water afterwards, jug and cup and gloves, whatever, all still over the water, then put everything right back into the bucket (I added the bucket, as a layer of protection.). The overarching principle is to isolate an open container of MA from your deck (and you!) as much as possible.

They teased me here about the gloves and goggles. I do some of my MA work with a respirator, too. Better safe than sorry. The only thing worse than burning your deck, is burning your eyes or lungs. This is nasty stuff, even at 14%.
 
Yorker said:
Hey Dirk, Is there a way to search YOUR threads to locate your writings on the best way to add MA?
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I should have seen that coming! ;)

If you want to see your path ahead, I guess there's no harm in giving you a peek. Just keep in mind that I'm a bit of a loon, and that in no sense should any of my hair-brained ideas supersede TFP advice. Proceed with caution!

You can skip ahead to the MA posts, but there's some other gems in there, too, plus the resulting tempered analysis of my adventures from some very well respected TFP experts.

Getting ready for SWG
 

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Yorker, I have my plate over full tonight. I will answer you when I get a chance. It might be tomorrow morning. I wanted to let you I am here for you but want to be able to spend the time needed on you answers. :hug:

Kim:kim:
 
No problem, Kim.

An update, my numbers at 7am this morning were:FC - 3.5CC - 0
PH - 7.8
TA - 70

I tested the FC again at 4:30 and it was back down to 2.0

The pool guy is coming shortly and I’ll take note of what he adds. I’ll test again tomorrow morning and see where we’re at. I know you wanted me to get my FC up to 6.0 this week. I just now changed my target in PMath to be 6 instead of 4. Hopefully that will get me closer to the amount of chlorine if I add more chlorine in the morning.


- - - Updated - - -

Dirk said:
Well, I guess I should have seen that coming! ;)

If you want to see your path ahead, I guess there's no harm in giving you a peek. Just keep in mind that I'm a bit of a loon, and that in no sense should any of my hair-brained ideas supersede TFP advice. Proceed with caution!

You can skip ahead to the MA posts, but there's some other gems in there, too, plus the resulting tempered analysis of my adventures from some very well respected TFP experts.

Getting ready for SWG
Click to expand...

I've already started reading and taking notes on your journey. Were we separated at birth? :)
 
Yorker said:
Were we separated at birth? :)
Click to expand...

No, I think the more plausible explanation is that you are me, but in an alternate time-shifted universe, connected through the TFP portal by some sort of [FONT=arial, sans-serif]tachyon particle stream. We must never meet, as that would [/FONT]annihilate the known universe. Well, save for my pebble surface, which has now been rendered indestructible by my work here at TFP!! :crazy:[FONT=arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]
 
Dirk can you please take his salt question? That is not in my bag of tricks. He wants to know if the one above is good. THANKS!

Yorker I am back with a clear head and empty plate so here we go!

-I want you to run out and look at the date code of the chlorine please. Just to be on the safe side.

-Lets do a "test" of the chlorine and your pool size-When it is time to do your next test and add of FC do this for me. Have the pump on high when you add the chlorine. Wait about 30 mins and go out and retest it. Did it hit the target?

-There is not need to run your pump more than an hour after you add the daily chlorine so you can reset your schedule.

-muriatic acid-the one you linked to is only 14%. Here is the one I buy : https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310 note it is 31% better bang for the buck.

-gloves-I like how high those come up your arm. They will be fine.

CYA-we have been seeing the Clorox CYA not being as "strong" as other brands. I would get the other brand.

-skimmer sock-you can use it but it will be harder to tie for me. I like my poor husbands tube socks....the are long and easy to tie off at the top. If you can tie off the skimmer socks then no reason to not use them.

I want to talk to you about the storage of muriatic acid. As you have seen from some of our comments about adding it and chlorine it can be a bad fella. You should not store it by the chlorine as it is the fumes that do not play well together. Nor should you store it by metal as it may cause rust. Dirk's thread talks about it. Ask him where he got those storage boxes and see where you can put one for your m.a.

I think I got it all! If not let me know! What I love is how you are really starting to get the hang of all of this!

Kim:kim:

Oh wait.........one more link! Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule Once you really start to learn your pool then you might be able to back off on the daily testing but that will be a while with it being new plaster and all.

Oh and the question about the download from the app.....I will put a call into our IT guy!
 
Are either of these ok?
Click to expand...

Assuming the information on the website page is accurate (not necessarily something to just assume):

Diamond Crystals?
Yes, this is what you're looking for, the HD claims about this project (double-check the bag):
• 99.3% pure salt
• Naturally free of additives

Morton?
Spec's also look fine, but they don't give a specific purity percentage, so I'd go with Diamond Crystals, as it's cheaper, too. (Salt is salt)


That said, salt marketed specifically for pools is about 2 or 3 bucks more expensive than regular water softener salt. Pool salt is generally finer, and is claimed to dissolve faster. If that's appealing to you, then pay the tax. For your size pool it's not going to be all that much. I did see in Lowe's a salt specifically for a pool that had an additive, and that's what you want to stay away from, no matter how cool the additive might sound for whatever the amazing stuff it will do for your pool. You're just looking for the purest salt you can fine.

If you want to save some dough and push the salt around a little bit more, any water softener salt that is 99% pure, or better, is fine. No additives is key. I used the rock salt type. Others here use the pellets. You'll find my notes about what I used and how I added it in that thread of mine you're working through.

PS. My post choked just now, too, looks like there was something up with the HD links, so you'll have to refer back to your own posts to retrieve the URLs I just "approved" 'cause I had to delete them to post this.
 
kimkats said:
-I want you to run out and look at the date code of the chlorine please. Just to be on the safe side.

It's 2/6/18. On a side note, the pool guy came at 6ish last night. His test strip was blotchy, but thought the FC was 1. (I tested it and hour before and it was 2). He came back from his truck and said he was out of chlorine and would be back around the same today, I pressed him to come earlier - then I thought, WHY bother, just another day with him counting while he pours the chlorine as a method of measurement. I asked him if it was ok for me to use my 10% - and he said ... fine.

So PM (is this an acceptable abbreviation for Pool Math?). Suggested that I add 49oz to bring it up to 6.0. I tested this morning ... 12 drops = 6.0. Big Smile.

WHY does PM keep changing my target to 4? I enter 6 ... then the next time I go to PB it defaults to 4.

AND .. why does PM ask the size of the bleach jug?

-Lets do a "test" of the chlorine and your pool size-When it is time to do your next test and add of FC do this for me. Have the pump on high when you add the chlorine. Wait about 30 mins and go out and retest it. Did it hit the target?

Just found out how to set the rpm's of the pump. They have had it set to run for 12 hours a day in the mid to upper 2000's (I assume to mask the inconsistent spillways). I saw a post on TFP that mentioned 1000 rpm's was a good and efficient setting is that what you'd recommend?

-There is not need to run your pump more than an hour after you add the daily chlorine so you can reset your schedule.

-muriatic acid-the one you linked to is only 14%. Here is the one I buy : https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-2x1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid-2118-HD/100119310 note it is 31% better bang for the buck.

Unfortunately (?) Home Depot does not carry that within a 100 miles. I imagine that the weaker (and more costly) 14% is less caustic, but I would guess if it got on cement, skin ... the effect would not be mild.

My bedtime reading last night was Dirk's journey creating Save-a-Deck®™. I'm only on page 6 - so I have a ways to go. I'm taking notes - questions will be coming.

-gloves-I like how high those come up your arm. They will be fine.

CYA-we have been seeing the Clorox CYA not being as "strong" as other brands. I would get the other brand.

-skimmer sock-you can use it but it will be harder to tie for me. I like my poor husbands tube socks....the are long and easy to tie off at the top. If you can tie off the skimmer socks then no reason to not use them.

I was not thinking about needing to tie the skimmer sock, thought I could just dump it in without tying. I recall you, Dirk or someone mentioned zippered lingerie bags. I'll look into those again.

I want to talk to you about the storage of muriatic acid. As you have seen from some of our comments about adding it and chlorine it can be a bad fella. You should not store it by the chlorine as it is the fumes that do not play well together. Nor should you store it by metal as it may cause rust. Dirk's thread talks about it. Ask him where he got those storage boxes and see where you can put one for your m.a.

Dirk's Getting ready for SWG Journey is answering many questions, I'm waiting to get through it entirely to see what the end result was. I WAS intending on storing everything in the garage, so it was good to learn 1) about the corrosive quality of m.a. and 2) that the fumes of the two are a really, really bad thing. So, I'm in a bit of a quandary for an outdoor location for where to store stuff. Our yard gets direct sun all day long not to mention when we get 120+ heat.

My head is spinning - I'm going to pull a Scarlet and say "after all tomorrow is another day" :smile:

I think I got it all! If not let me know! What I love is how you are really starting to get the hang of all of this!

Kim:kim:

Oh wait.........one more link! Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule Once you really start to learn your pool then you might be able to back off on the daily testing but that will be a while with it being new plaster and all.

BACK TO SCHOOL!? :smile: I know, I know. Thanks for the reminder.

Oh and the question about the download from the app.....I will put a call into our IT guy!
Click to expand...

NEXT I need to deal with the PB. They installed the roof for the patio cover and it is not even close to being centered.

It's 9:30 am, I need a nap
York

PS Thanks Kim

View attachment 75176View attachment 75177
 
I'm not able to see those pics however you're attaching them. Meant to mention that before.

Inline...

It's 2/6/18. On a side note, the pool guy came at 6ish last night. His test strip was blotchy, but thought the FC was 1. (I tested it and hour before and it was 2). He came back from his truck and said he was out of chlorine and would be back around the same today, I pressed him to come earlier - then I thought, WHY bother, just another day with him counting while he pours the chlorine as a method of measurement. I asked him if it was ok for me to use my 10% - and he said ... fine.

So PM (is this an acceptable abbreviation for Pool Math?). Suggested that I add 49oz to bring it up to 6.0. I tested this morning ... 12 drops = 6.0. Big Smile.

Well I thought that horse was dead, but I see his legs twitching a bit, so I'm going to beat him some more!! ;) No, just to say this is the perfect testimonial to what you should be doing, and how, and why. You're taking this bull by the horns and running with it. Excellent!! (Lot of animals around here, apparently.) I'm very glad to see you are riding that donkey of a pool guy and keep an eye on him! Awesome.


WHY does PM keep changing my target to 4? I enter 6 ... then the next time I go to PB it defaults to 4.

I asked that same exact question of the development team. Unlike some of the other targets that you can fill in yourself and they stick, the team felt this one was critical enough to a pool to take it out of the hands of the user (newbies in particular) and default to a safe value. (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was the gist.) I suggested a user preference to override that behavior, because like you, I want control of that number and I don't like inputing my number every time. I guess that wish-list item didn't come true for this version (are you on v2 yet?).


AND .. why does PM ask the size of the bleach jug?

That one puzzles me too, but I just inputted it and ignore it. I don't see it affecting the math...
Click to expand...

Regarding the pump speed... more pool-guy-myth non-sense. I don't know how much my RPMs cost me when my pool guy was running the show. He used an even crazier scheme. You probably have to let them control that, though, until it's officially "your" pool. We can come back to that and straighten it out then. Beside, for new plaster you want the filter running a lot to snatch up any plaster dust. How old is your pool now? I brushed my pool twice a day for a month, and I ran my pump 24 hrs for at least two weeks, maybe more, at a pretty good clip, just to play it safe. What's another 10, 20, 30, whatever bucks in the grand scheme of things, right?
 
I updated the PM to v2 yesterday. Easier to use, but still the font size issue.

Today is day 15. I have only brushed it a few times after windstorms. Guess that was not on my list ... I can start today if it's not too late.

I forgot to mention the that the pool guy tried "lightly" using a wire brush to the stains on the bottom. I mentioned that I thought they were not supposed to be used, and he said that's mainly on plaster pools. I did see some dirt move around, but he was never brushed the bottom of the pool, only vacuume.

There are so many stains and blotches on the bottom of the pool it makes me sick and while I have let go of the messed up tiles, I'm waiting to bring it up with the builder. It seems like the only solution is strip all the pebble off down to the gunite and re-pebble.

I'm 99% sure they will not agree to do that. My thoughts are when the get closer to the end of the job (still some electrical to run, once the patio cover is complete, tile around the outside of the spa and pavers to install). After that I will focus on the spillway issue, the fact that they spec'd a 1.5 single speed pump to feed 8 spa jets, and the stains on the bottom of the pool.
 
Salt... Yah, I had trouble at Lowe's because the ingredient listings were lame. I tried checking online with no joy. I ended up kinda rolling the dice. That might be an argument for the "pool grade" salt, but I wouldn't expect any great promises there, either. It's not regulated, I'm guessing, so you're at the mercy of the manufacturer's spec's and the advice you can muster up here. You look for the purity and the "no additives" and hope for the best. What I used worked, no issues so far, but it didn't actually state purity.

The rest... yikes. You've got quite a dealio going on, don't you. Without meaning to rub it in, I think it's very safe to say, and for you to take the position, that your contractor and his staff are underperforming. What to do? A dialog first, I guess. A sit down? With a grievance list? You don't want to alienate your contractor, but you need to get what you paid for. Not much help, I realize.

The brushing... I can't say too late or not, but it can't hurt, for sure. From what I've learned, that is pool start up 101 and can greatly affect your finish. More so with plaster, but pebble is not immune to the issues, especially if there is sand and debris on the surface. I'm not quite sure why that's been so mishandled. There's a school of thought the the acid wash negates the need to brush, as it takes all the problem stuff off in one go. There are plenty of sources that say the opposite. But that might be why the PB was so cavalier about it. A "grievance list" item, for sure. Test strips? Showing up without chlorine? Leave a pool with inadequate sanitation (I don't think anyone can claim FC1 as adequate.) And I forget all else. That's just the pool guy. The list goes on, as you know.

All I can advise (and I think I did already, at least in part) is start communicating in writing, email at least. Start the paper trail. Start documenting. Take lots of pictures (like one with him wire brushing your pool). Control the money draws, if you can. Based only on my limited experience, I would say that your start up is being mishandled. I'm hoping this will all work out, but, I'm sorry to say, you should start preparing for the worst, just in case. Better to have this data and not need it, then later need it and not have it.
 

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