Need some help...Final Decisions before I start my pool build!!!

[aaronhawk008]

I have just received the final estimate from my PB. Before I sign on the dotted line and write up this contract, I want to make sure I'm not forgetting anything or leaving anything out.

All suggestions and help is welcomed as I am brand new to this and I want to make sure first off that I have the suggested and right equipment and also that my PB isn't trying to put the cheapest equipment into my build.

Here is what my wife and I have decided on...

- 18'x28' Free Form Gunite Pool

• Jandy Flow Pro 1.5hp Filtration Pump (FHPM1.5-2)
• 1/2hp Booster Pump for Polaris (PB4-60)
• 2 LED Pool Lights
• Diamond Brite Plaster color of choice
• 5' deep on both ends/6' deep in the middle of pool
• Tanning Ledge with Umbrella Holder in the center
• 6"x6" Water Line Tile
• 1 Year Full Warranty on Pool and Equipment
• 3 Year Warranty on all Jandy Equipment
• Polaris 280 Cleaning System
• 2 Skimmers
• Jandy 460 Cartridge Filter (CL460)
• All plumbing schedule 40
• 2 AntiVortex main drains 12'x12'
• All Jandy Never Lube Valves

- Spa attached to pool

• 9' Diameter (7' inside diameter)
• 8 Jets
• 1 Spa Light
• 2'-2.5' Spillover into pool
• 2 AntiVortex main drains
• Blower for Jets
• Tile for waterline inside spa and bench accents

- 400 BTU Jandy Natural Gas Heater (JXI400N)
- Jandy Tru Clear Salt System (TRUCLEAR11KU)
- Salted Concrete Decking

Is there anything possibly missing that I should have in this build? Is there anything that might not be needed?

Thanks in advance for all of your help!

Aaron

 

[mknauss]

I would use a Variable Speed pump. Most times it can be run at low rpm for filtering etc and then ramped up to use the spa.

I would get rid of the pressure vacuum and get a robot. That would eliminate the need for the booster pump.

How do you plan to chlorinate? If you are considering getting a SWCG, then automation would make your VS pump, SWCG, and motorized valves for your spa work seamlessly.

Take care.

 

[Dirk]

I'm a big proponent of no drains. Pool circulation can be achieved without drains. And they're not really necessary for anything else. They can hang up vacs, get in the way of brushing, stub toes and look bad. They are also dangerous to some degree, even when designed and covered according to code.

If your PB is still selling pressure side vacs and booster pumps (yikes!), then he's likely not the guy to convince about no drains. But ask around, more and more pools are being built without them (Polarises or drains!).

 

[aaronhawk008]

I would use a Variable Speed pump. Most times it can be run at low rpm for filtering etc and then ramped up to use the spa.

I would get rid of the pressure vacuum and get a robot. That would eliminate the need for the booster pump.

How do you plan to chlorinate? If you are considering getting a SWCG, then automation would make your VS pump, SWCG, and motorized valves for your spa work seamlessly.

Take care.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

One of the quotes I got from another PB had a Polaris 9350...this one looked much better than the Polaris 280. Is the 9350 a robot or just a nicer vacuum? Any recommendations on a brand/type?

My PB has the Jandy Tru Clear Salt System in my final quote. Is this not what Chlorinates the pool? (Sorry, I am a beginner!)

Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

I'm a big proponent of no drains. Pool circulation can be achieved without drains. And they're not really necessary for anything else. They can hang up vacs, get in the way of brushing, stub toes and look bad. They are also dangerous to some degree, even when designed and covered according to code.

If your PB is still selling pressure side vacs and booster pumps (yikes!), then he's likely not the guy to convince about no drains. But ask around, more and more pools are being built without them (Polarises or drains!).

I will definitely ask him about it. I wish I had more knowledge about this stuff!

 

[mknauss]

The TruClear is a SWCG and will chlorinate your pool. Be sure it is rated for at least twice your pool volume. So if pool volume is 20000 gallons, the SWCG should be rated for at least 40000 gallons.

Dolphin robots are the most discussed on this forum. I have one. They are self contained (they have a pump and filter in them) so you do not need a booster pump.

It is normally best to buy your robot from a pool store and not through your pool builder.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure I would accept a TruClear SWCG. It will struggle to chlorinate your pool in the summer unless you run it 18+ hours per day. An Aquapure 1400 would be better.

 

[aaronhawk008]

The TruClear is a SWCG and will chlorinate your pool. Be sure it is rated for at least twice your pool volume. So if pool volume is 20000 gallons, the SWCG should be rated for at least 40000 gallons.

Dolphin robots are the most discussed on this forum. I have one. They are self contained (they have a pump and filter in them) so you do not need a booster pump.

It is normally best to buy your robot from a pool store and not through your pool builder.

Thanks for the info.

Also, why do you recommend Automation? I originally wanted it, but I was afraid the cost would be too much.

 

[mknauss]

You can set schedules for your pump and SWCG. You also can automate your valves and switch to spa mode with one button. You can add remote access via phone or tablet to control your VS pump and turn on spa.

 

[ajw22]

I have a Polaris 380 that I just rebuilt. Polaris 280/380 cleaners were popular last century before the cleaner robots came to market. If I did it today I would try a robot cleaner.

Have the PB run the dedicated cleaner return into the pool and stub it off by your equipment. If you decide you don't like the robot then you just get a booster pump and Polaris cleaner and drop it in. Running one extra PVC return should not add anything to the job.

How are you going to control your pool, spa, Polaris cleaner (if you get it) and heater without automation? You will be running outside and turning valves and pressing buttons on the heater. You can get simple automation with a wired panel. Nothing fancy but you have a pool mode, and spa mode, and cleaner on a timed program, and your pool lights, and spa jets, and spa air, controlled by automated valves.

Talk to your PB if your spa spillway will always be running when your pool is running. With a SWG and spillway you will constantly be fighting rising PH. You would like an automated valve so you can turn your spa spillway on or off while in pool mode.

 

[aaronhawk008]

I have a Polaris 380 that I just rebuilt. Polaris 280/380 cleaners were popular last century before the cleaner robots came to market. If I did it today I would try a robot cleaner.

Have the PB run the dedicated cleaner return into the pool and stub it off by your equipment. If you decide you don't like the robot then you just get a booster pump and Polaris cleaner and drop it in. Running one extra PVC return should not add anything to the job.

How are you going to control your pool, spa, Polaris cleaner (if you get it) and heater without automation? You will be running outside and turning valves and pressing buttons on the heater. You can get simple automation with a wired panel. Nothing fancy but you have a pool mode, and spa mode, and cleaner on a timed program, and your pool lights, and spa jets, and spa air, controlled by automated valves.

Talk to your PB if your spa spillway will always be running when your pool is running. With a SWG and spillway you will constantly be fighting rising PH. You would like an automated valve so you can turn your spa spillway on or off while in pool mode.

Thanks! These are things I would have never thought about asking. I also like the idea of the robot after doing a little research.

 

[ajw22]

Install a convenient GFCI protected 120V outlet to plug in your robot if you go that way.

Install a light over your pool equipment for when you need to check out a problem at night.

You want automation controls by the spa and in the house. So you can turn on the spa, heater, jets, and air while in the spa.

 

[Dirk]

Have the PB run the dedicated cleaner return into the pool and stub it off by your equipment. If you decide you don't like the robot then you just get a booster pump and Polaris cleaner and drop it in. Running one extra PVC return should not add anything to the job.

+1

This is counter to many here that swear by their robots, but I would still run this extra line even if I knew I wanted a robot. I had a Polaris, and had my pressure port converted to a suction port and have run a Rebel vac since. This conversion was done at the pad. So with this extra line all your options are open: robot, pressure vac, or suction vac.

+1

For automation. Plenty of pool owners run their spa and pool without automation. I would never want to be one. Mine schedules all the pump modes, runs my SWG and my pool light. I can check on and control any of that from anywhere in the world. And I can, and do, run my vac at 4:30AM because I don't want suction and my kids in the pool at the same time. But at 4:30am I am sleeping, and not running out to the pool to turn something on or off. Also, my automation controls my solar heating system, turning it on and off based on heat temp on the roof vs heat temp of the pool. My NG heater is controlled by it, too. I wouldn't consider a pool without automation (in fact, I added mine to the pool that came with the house).

To be fair, some of what is being described can be done with relatively inexpensive manual timers (like Intermatic). You can run a pool fine with those. Just not as conveniently. And one could make an argument that automation can be leveraged to run a pool more efficiently, but efficient enough to save enough to pay for automation? Not sure. Probably not, but that factor could give you a little return on the investment beyond convenience and functionality.

 

[ajw22]

Insist that all pipes be labeled with weather proof labels. Both words and arrows showing the water flow direction. All valves should have labels or tags with their function and what each position does. Get the manusls, installation documents, and warrantees for all equipment installed.

Get an as-built drawing of exactly where all PVC pipes and electrical lines are run. Take pictures during the build when the ground is trenched and lines placed. So you have an idea years later of where to look for a leak or problem.

 

[Dirk]

I've heard from some Floridians that they don't need any auto fillers. Maybe the same for your area? I wouldn't want a pool without one. Mine, the PoolMiser, manages water level with an auto filler float valve and an overflow pipe, that keeps the pool's water level from ever getting too high or too low. There are other brands and systems, I only know the PoolMiser. Mine did fail, which is why some PBs don't like auto fillers, but mine was an easy fix ($25). I think an overflow is absolutely mandatory. I just know I don't think about my pool's water level. I have, though, left my fountain filler (manual hose method) on from hours to overnight. I can pretty much guarantee I'd do the same for my pool if it was left up to me to maintain water level.

 

[aaronhawk008]

Does anyone have a recommended depth for their pool? It is just my wife and I. On occasion we will have friends over with kids, but 90% of the time its just the two of us and our great dane.

I was thinking 5' on both sides and 6' in the middle in case we play volleyball with friends?

Any suggestions here?

 

[TacoTime]

Does anyone have a recommended depth for their pool? It is just my wife and I. On occasion we will have friends over with kids, but 90% of the time its just the two of us and our great dane.

I was thinking 5' on both sides and 6' in the middle in case we play volleyball with friends?

Any suggestions here?

I am in the process of building a pool now, but the feedback I got from talking to several pool owners is to definitely have a shallow end starting around 3.5'. The reasons i got were: 1) most people congregate in the shallow end where it is easy to hang out and be social. 2) It is hard to hold a beer in 5' deep water... sounds silly, but lots of people will want to hang out with a drink in the pool,and if they are having to hold it up to eye level to do so, they will not be comfortable. 3) smaller kids need a shallow area exclusively - this could be your kids, your friend's kids, or the potential buyer of your home down the road. 4) Less gallons of water to treat.

But what do I know - my pool isn't even done yet.

 

[Dirk]

I was just swimming with the neighbors and their kids. Sharing a pool is where it's at, for me. So while you definitely should build the pool for yourself, if you like to share, then consider how others will use your pool. It pretty much costs me the same to maintain my pool for myself, as it does to let others enjoy it. I like having others over. And while it's 90% of the time for you now, sharing a pool is a good way to make friends and increase your social circle, if you're interested. So...

I like my jumping rock. If there are kids in the pool, the rock is the center of their fun. I can't really recommend a diving board, as fun as they are. I think a rock is a good balance between fun and danger! And it looks significantly better in my yard than a diving board or slide would, that's for sure. Point being, I have a 7.5' deep end and couldn't do with much less for diving and jumping, which kids love to do. Including this kid. I usually enter my pool with a dive, from mid pool towards the deep end, and swoop down low and then pop up. Very refreshing. I like that extra depth for that reason, too. And the kids like to swim down there and grab toys out of the deep end, etc.

I do get the appeal of a pool one could play volleyball in, with equal depth on each end and slightly deep in the middle. But I wouldn't give up my 7.5' for it. If anything, I wish my pool was deeper. My shallow end is 3.5' and that has proven to be good for me and the kids. Adults wade around in it. Little's can stand up in it. Sometimes I wish it was 4'. But that's 6" away from when my three littles could tip toe around, so I probably wouldn't change that either. Personally, I wouldn't like a pool that had no area less than 5' deep, even if it was just me in it.

Sports pools are all the rage right now. But I know what basketballs and volleyballs would do to the plants in my garden, so no thanks. Badminton, maybe.

 

[aaronhawk008]

I was just swimming with the neighbors and their kids. Sharing a pool is where it's at, for me. So while you definitely should build the pool for yourself, if you like to share, then consider how others will use your pool. It pretty much costs me the same to maintain my pool for myself, as it does to let others enjoy it. I like having others over. And while it's 90% of the time for you now, sharing a pool is a good way to make friends and increase your social circle, if you're interested. So...

I like my jumping rock. If there are kids in the pool, the rock is the center of their fun. I can't really recommend a diving board, as fun as they are. I think a rock is a good balance between fun and danger! And it looks significantly better in my yard than a diving board or slide would, that's for sure. Point being, I have a 7.5' deep end and couldn't do with much less for diving and jumping, which kids love to do. Including this kid. I usually enter my pool with a dive, from mid pool towards the deep end, and swoop down low and then pop up. Very refreshing. I like that extra depth for that reason, too. And the kids like to swim down there and grab toys out of the deep end, etc.

I do get the appeal of a pool one could play volleyball in, with equal depth on each end and slightly deep in the middle. But I wouldn't give up my 7.5' for it. If anything, I wish my pool was deeper. My shallow end is 3.5' and that has proven to be good for me and the kids. Adults wade around in it. Little's can stand up in it. Sometimes I wish it was 4'. But that's 6" away from when my three littles could tip toe around, so I probably wouldn't change that either. Personally, I wouldn't like a pool that had no area less than 5' deep, even if it was just me in it.

Sports pools are all the rage right now. But I know what basketballs and volleyballs would do to the plants in my garden, so no thanks. Badminton, maybe.

Great stuff! Thanks for the advice and ideas, I think I will pay a little more attention to the depth this weekend at my friends pool.

Thanks guys!

 

[Steve_in_C]

I see great advice here. I like the idea of stubbing in plumbing in case your want a pressure side pump in the future for some reason. With the same thought, you might ask about auto fill / drain plumbing to keep your water level right automatically. Gas heater? That's a big expense (the gas, not the heater). I have a gas heater myself and would much rather have a heat pump. I'd run a big enough wire / subpanel to put a heat pump in the future even if you don't put in one today.

Gas costs for 20,000 gallon pool: 20,000 gal * 8lb water/gal * 1 BTH/lb water * 1 therm/100,000 BTU * delta T (desired temperature change in F degrees) = 1.6 Therms. At 70% efficiency for a gas heater, that's 2.29 Therms per 1 degree of water temp change. At $1.15/therm, thats $2.63 per degree. Heat 5 degrees per day, thats's $13.15 per day to run that heater. Heat pumps cost much less to run. Solar is good too.

 

[Dirk]

Solar is good too.

Right, solar. I mentioned solar along with automation, but not the pipes. NG heaters and heat pumps are typically added at the pad, so can be done at a later date. But solar panels are elsewhere, and connected to the pad via two pipes. Typically the same size pipe as the rest of your plumbing. So if your pad is not going to be where solar pipes can be run later, run them now if you think there's a chance you'll go solar. Where is your pad going to be? Where would your panels be mounted (roof, or ground mount)? Much easier, and cheaper, to throw the two necessary pipes into the trenches they'll be diggin up in your yard, then to try and add them later, especially if you're covering your yard with new decking. Be sure to include a four-conductor wire along with the pipes to hook up the temperature sender(s).

This notion doesn't get much traction around here, but if it were my pool I'd spec all 90° PVC fittings be sweep 90s instead of regular 90s. If you're going to have a lot of elbows, sweeps offer a little less resistance. One or two won't matter much, but the effect is cumulative so when you add them all together you get a little benefit. Some PBs use sweeps exclusively, some don't.

 

[Thasista]

I see great advice here. I like the idea of stubbing in plumbing in case your want a pressure side pump in the future for some reason. With the same thought, you might ask about auto fill / drain plumbing to keep your water level right automatically. Gas heater? That's a big expense (the gas, not the heater). I have a gas heater myself and would much rather have a heat pump. I'd run a big enough wire / subpanel to put a heat pump in the future even if you don't put in one today.

Gas costs for 20,000 gallon pool: 20,000 gal * 8lb water/gal * 1 BTH/lb water * 1 therm/100,000 BTU * delta T (desired temperature change in F degrees) = 1.6 Therms. At 70% efficiency for a gas heater, that's 2.29 Therms per 1 degree of water temp change. At $1.15/therm, thats $2.63 per degree. Heat 5 degrees per day, thats's $13.15 per day to run that heater. Heat pumps cost much less to run. Solar is good too.

Can you do the same calculation except with heat pump? I wasn’t going to put heater in my build because we don’t have NG and I don’t want an LP tank. OTOH if heat pump is reasonable I will do that!