Need new equipment ASAP, sanity check appreciated!

Jul 13, 2010
10
Setup here
Well the deep freeze got me. After 20 years with no issues, something went wrong. I don't know if the pump failed (likely) or if there was a power outage, but I woke up to a silent pool on an 8 degree morning, and the pump/chlorinator were frozen solid. I've never closed my pool since I live in the south, but now I'm thinking I may start (tdb later).

Seems like a few of the above-ground joints and one of the jandy never lube valves plus the chlorinator and likely pump housing cracked. I've been nursing the original pump and filters for years and was going to replace them this spring anyways, so no huge loss, but now I need to scramble and get the new equipment installed soon. One major casualty was my new chlorinator, I'll likely need a whole new cell, housing is definitely gone. Hopefully, the below-ground pipes are okay. I was able to melt the frozen lines and fill with anti-freeze before going on vacation. I plan to dig down a bit to make sure and cut in new lines for all new above-ground plumbing.

I've tried to learn what I can in the last couple days, but with Christmas I haven't had time. Would really appreciate a sanity check on my plan for now.

My goal is to basically replicate it with a modern pump/cartridge filter. Everything has worked great for years, nice clean pool. But I'd like to gain 1. better efficiency 2. quieter pump 3. automated cleaner valve (nice but not needed)
  • Pump motor is 1.5hp plus 1.1SF fixed speed. No idea on the pump GPM itself.
  • Cartridges are Tri-Clops 450sq feet.
  • 18k gallon pool only, no spa
  • 2 supply jets
  • 1 cleaner, Polaris 360 (runs on pool pump)
  • 1 skimmer
  • 2 drains
  • 40A 220v for pump
  • 20A 120v for pool light (replaced with LED years ago)
  • Circupool RJ-45
I'm looking at this pump and this filter.
I currently control the pump and the lights with separate z-wave switches using a home control app. I'd like a pump that has built-in freeze protection/timer control via wifi. I would then use the z-wave relays to control the light and possibly the cleaner valve actuator (if possible). Don't think this would work, probably needs a smarter controller than just on/off I imagine? Might be able to use this for a robot cleaner later on.

Questions:
  • Is this 3hp pump overkill or too much for my system?
  • Is there a cheaper pump that is quiet/efficient and enough for my setup? 1.5hp?
  • Any benefit with sticking to a 3hp VS pump?
  • Wold the Pentair 420 sq-ft filter be good enough?
  • What's the minimum needed to have a single app controlled/programmed actuated valve for the cleaner? Can the pump do it or do I need a control panel?
 
Setup here
Well the deep freeze got me. After 20 years with no issues, something went wrong. I don't know if the pump failed (likely) or if there was a power outage, but I woke up to a silent pool on an 8 degree morning, and the pump/chlorinator were frozen solid. I've never closed my pool since I live in the south, but now I'm thinking I may start (tdb later).

Seems like a few of the above-ground joints and one of the jandy never lube valves plus the chlorinator and likely pump housing cracked. I've been nursing the original pump and filters for years and was going to replace them this spring anyways, so no huge loss, but now I need to scramble and get the new equipment installed soon. One major casualty was my new chlorinator, I'll likely need a whole new cell, housing is definitely gone. Hopefully, the below-ground pipes are okay. I was able to melt the frozen lines and fill with anti-freeze before going on vacation. I plan to dig down a bit to make sure and cut in new lines for all new above-ground plumbing.

I've tried to learn what I can in the last couple days, but with Christmas I haven't had time. Would really appreciate a sanity check on my plan for now.

My goal is to basically replicate it with a modern pump/cartridge filter. Everything has worked great for years, nice clean pool. But I'd like to gain 1. better efficiency 2. quieter pump 3. automated cleaner valve (nice but not needed)
  • Pump motor is 1.5hp plus 1.1SF fixed speed. No idea on the pump GPM itself.
  • Cartridges are Tri-Clops 450sq feet.
  • 18k gallon pool only, no spa
  • 2 supply jets
  • 1 cleaner, Polaris 360 (runs on pool pump)
  • 1 skimmer
  • 2 drains
  • 40A 220v for pump
  • 20A 120v for pool light (replaced with LED years ago)
  • Circupool RJ-45
I'm looking at this pump and this filter.
I currently control the pump and the lights with separate z-wave switches using a home control app. I'd like a pump that has built-in freeze protection/timer control via wifi. I would then use the z-wave relays to control the light and possibly the cleaner valve actuator (if possible). Don't think this would work, probably needs a smarter controller than just on/off I imagine? Might be able to use this for a robot cleaner later on.

Questions:
  • Is this 3hp pump overkill or too much for my system?
  • Is there a cheaper pump that is quiet/efficient and enough for my setup? 1.5hp?
  • Any benefit with sticking to a 3hp VS pump?
  • Wold the Pentair 420 sq-ft filter be good enough?
  • What's the minimum needed to have a single app controlled/programmed actuated valve for the cleaner? Can the pump do it or do I need a control panel?
No way you need a 3hp pump. Can’t really answer the other stuff except that any VS pump will be tons quieter and more efficient because you can run it at much lower speeds. I can barely hear mine when I walk over next to it.
 
The beauty of VS pumps is that you can adjust the speed or flow to suit your pool. Also running the pump at lower speeds results in the greatest energy savings and least noise. One benefit of the Intelliflo3 w/ I/O board is that you can control both the pump and two additional devices (via relays) with the Pentair Home app.

It is possible to use a a SPDT relay with an AUX relay to control a valve. Just an idea if you don't want to get an automation system and instead use a relay in the Intelliflo3 or a Z-Wave switch.

You can control an actuator using a high voltage AUX relay using this circuit. Aux relays use two wires - 24 VDC and ground. Valve actuators use three wires - two 24 VAC lines and ground. AC on one line will turn the valve one way and AC on the other line will turn the valve the other way.

You could use the Aux relay to control the 24 VAC so that it will turn the valve using the following circuit. But normal Aux relays won't work as they do not have any Normally Closed contacts. You need a relay that has NC and NO contacts.

Actuator_control_circuit.jpg


Also don't rely on the pump's thermal mode for system freeze protection - better to just run the pump at a low speed 24/7 during a freeze event. You can get a dummy cell for the Circupool for winter months.


You could also look at Waterway cartridge filters as an alternative to Pentair.

 
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The beauty of VS pumps is that you can adjust the speed or flow to suit your pool. Also running the pump at lower speeds results in the greatest energy savings and least noise. One benefit of the Intelliflo3 w/ IO board is that you can control both the pump and two additional devices (via relays) with an app.

It is possible to use a a SPDT relay with an AUX relay to control a valve. Just an idea if you don't want to get an automation system and instead use a relay in the Intelliflo3.



Actuator_control_circuit.jpg


You could also look at Waterway cartridge filters as an alternative to Pentair.

Thanks, this is great info! Can I buy and install that I/O board later? Is this it? Pentair IntelliFlo3 VSF Speed Pool Pump I/O IO Relay Control Board 356365Z

At this point I'm thinking of just getting the pump I need and thinking about the automation idea later on. If there's a certain pump I absolutely need now to make automation easier in the future I'll go with that. Seems like the pump I linked without the I/O board still has app-controlled timer/freeze functions, correct?

As for 3hp, it does seem high like the other poster said, but if efficiency/noise would be better then I think the difference is worth it. Looks like the Superflo VS (1.5hp) is only a $300 difference. Also, wondering if I really need 520 sq-ft for the filtration of 18k gallons. Would 420 be enough?
 
I would recommend buying the Intelliflo3 w/ the I/O board (P/N 011076), but you can add it later with the part you listed. A lot of people here buy from Polytec Pools as they're competitively priced and normally have items in stock.


If you decide to get the Intelliflo3 w/o the I/O board (P/N 011075) it will still have freeze protection for the pump and scheduling through the Pentair Home app.


For a 18k gal pool a 420 sqft filter would be sufficient and would probably only need cleaning twice a year.
 
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Consider getting this Black+Decker VS pump for your simple pool. It is half the price of an IntelliFlo3 pump...



 
Consider getting this Black+Decker VS pump for your simple pool. It is half the price of an IntelliFlo3 pump...



This is interesting. Doesn't appear to have freeze protection though, or am I missing it?
 
This is interesting. Doesn't appear to have freeze protection though, or am I missing it?

From Calimar/Circupool/BD/Blue Torrent Pump - Further Reading

The CircuPool SmartFlo manual has the following description:

As a back-up, the SmartFlo has a built-in freeze protection mode to help ensure the water circulates when temperatures begin to get cold. If there is not already scheduled or manually set operation when temperatures get down to approximately 40°F, the pump will begin to run continuously at 1000 RPM. The snowflake icon on the display will turn on.

The Black+Decker manual has instructions for changing freeze settings.
 
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