It Finally Happened, Breaker Tripped

JoyfulNoise

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I love the Matt Risinger Build Show on YouTube. He’s done many episodes based off of his own personal home build in Texas and he has an AMAZING(!!) conditioned attic that is completely livable. He’s a total building sciences nerd and he did an entire episode on the insulation he used inside his home (RockWool mostly). Fun to watch.
 
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jseyfert3

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It would be nice to have an attic that is at least usable for storage, but most attics when not designed for this are not the best for retrofitting, due to how the rafters are fabricated. Most, including mine, have diagonal rafter supports that would get in the way of converting it into easily usable storage space. Mostly in the way that they'd get in the way of moving around in the attic easily. Also my attic access is in a closet, not exactly easy to access on a regular basis.
 
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Rattus Suffocatus

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The sloped roofs here are no different really (they are "rest of the country" designs retrofitted to our climate) but the aluminized foam is more common here on the roof side than in the Midwest as a "radiant barrier". Since the attics here are pretty well ventilated and stuff really doesn't freeze, anything that can handle say 140F can be stored up there here. It's probably slightly better here for that, but I wouldn't put a bunch of plastic up there....
 

phonedave

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I love the Matt Risinger Build Show on YouTube. He’s done many episodes based off of his own personal home build in Texas and he has an AMAZING(!!) conditioned attic that is completely livable. He’s a total building sciences nerd and he did an entire episode on the insulation he used inside his home (RockWool mostly). Fun to watch.


Today . . . . on the Build Show. Some of his stuff is a little over the top, but the majority of it is best practices. There is a cost benefit trade off, and on new construction it works, but tying to retrofit existing structures sometimes does not pay off. If I was building a new house, I would use many of his methods.

Most attics here in the Northeast are not conditioned space. It can be done, and it is not unheard of, but more often than not it is insulated on the attic floor.

Many times, especially in older homes, the air handlers are in the attic, since central air was added after the fact, and we have a lot of steam or hydronic heat here. There are forced air homes, and those of course can be upgraded to central air easily. But when you have to cut in new duct work, the attic is a lot easier to work from.

We also get the swings in temperature, so my attic goes from really cold to roasting day by day.

Basements are hit or miss around here. Some houses have them, others do not. It is a style and water table thing.
 

jseyfert3

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Well F!

Replaced the heater. Filled tub. Turned on and it started flashing “SF”. Read online, problem with suction sensor. Unplug sensor, turn power on again, still flashes SF. According to online resources the next step is to replace the circuit board…
 
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jseyfert3

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@RDspaguy after my above message I checked the dip switches. 6 & 7 were on. I did not change any of these on purpose, and both were on in my previous photo when I was removing the original heater. I shut 6 off and turned the spa back on. This time no SF message, and it went to Pr as normal on power-up. Pumps should kick on here in a minute.

So bad suction sensor and by shutting off 6 I told it there was no suction sensors so it ignored them and booted normally?
 

jseyfert3

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Well that didn’t work either. Got through priming, but then instead of kicking on the pumps and displaying temp it displayed - - EDIT: I forgot it displays - - for a couple minutes on turn-on while it measures the temp. So this is normal behavior. Except the pumps not turning on, presumably because they are powered via F5, which is blown.

I tried kicking in pumps and relays toggled but no pumps kicked on. Pressed temp button and the temp displayed, 48, which seems about right for a fresh fill, but again no pumps, just the relays toggling on and off. Lights worked normally too.

Low of 19 tonight, I can’t keep this full of cold water with the heater and pumps not working. I’m gonna have to drain it. F…
 
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jseyfert3

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Other info. On the suction sensors, reading 0 ohms between upper and middle pins of switches, no connection between middle and lower pins.
996C2210-5148-492A-ABB6-B234C24D42B9.jpeg

Fuse F5 is blown. I suspect this is a large portion of my current issues. Odd this is brown, unless the heater failing caused it.
 

jseyfert3

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This is the Cal Spa SC6200DV tech sheet I found:
1637316571655.png
1637316588634.png

So it appears that dip switch 6 is indeed for safety suction (odd that this tech sheet and the cover of the control panel both say this must be off, yet it was on...). 7-10 set max current, with switch 7 on for a 50 A breaker (as mine is wired) this allows one high speed pump to operate along with the heater. That seems to make sense.

So the question is why did F5 blow? I'll try to order a few replacements tomorrow.
 

JoyfulNoise

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Other info. On the suction sensors, reading 0 ohms between upper and middle pins of switches, no connection between middle and lower pins.
View attachment 382631

Fuse F5 is blown. I suspect this is a large portion of my current issues. Odd this is brown, unless the heater failing caused it.

From pictures online for similar style switches the red wire appears to be on the COMMON connections and the black wire is on NORMALLY CLOSED (NC). Maybe retest to make sure your switch is working.

Blown fuses are certainly an indication of fault. Hopefully fixing that helps.
 

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RDspaguy

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Sorry buddy, been out hunting or I'd have answered sooner.
The top terminal on the suction switch is common, the others are n/o and n/c (normally open/ closed). You would test from the top to each of the others.
The system should run with the suction switch disconnected.
tried kicking in pumps and relays toggled but no pumps kicked on.
With the fuse blown, it won't have power but the relays still function.

Odd this is brown, unless the heater failing caused it.
That indicates heat, which could be too many amps, but likely is a poor connection in the fuse holder or just an old fuse going bad. The heater is not independently fused, relying on the breaker for protection, and could not cause this fuse to fail.
So the question is why did F5 blow?
Yep. Could be a pump issue, bad connection, circuit board issue, or just an old fuse. Test the board before reconnecting the pump or you might just blow the new one, too. Verify that low jet turns off when high jet turns on.
 

jseyfert3

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That indicates heat, which could be too many amps, but likely is a poor connection in the fuse holder or just an old fuse going bad. The heater is not independently fused, relying on the breaker for protection, and could not cause this fuse to fail.
I meant blown, not brown.

Interesting. I was wondering how the heater worked, since there’s no way as set up the heater and pumps could be fused without exceeding the current of the fuse with how the control board operates (allowing one pump on high along with one on low and the heater all at the same time). The heater not being independently fused makes sense.

Yep. Could be a pump issue, bad connection, circuit board issue, or just an old fuse. Test the board before reconnecting the pump or you might just blow the new one, too. Verify that low jet turns off when high jet turns on.
I tried a new fuse before I checked TFP. I picked up three new ones so I had a few troubleshooting attempts. Put a new fuse in and with the tub empty turned it on. Pumps kicked on shortly afterwards. I turned it off right away so I didn’t kill the pump seals. Tub is refilling now.

I borrowed a current clamp from work so I can measure the power draw of the tub and figure out how many amps each thing is drawing.
 
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jseyfert3

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A toasty 53 °F now, but it’s working! Pump #2, a high speed only pump, and original or at least pretty old, did take a lot longer to start spinning than it should have. So that may be an issue in the near future.

But pump #1 is the dual speed pump used for the heater, so worst case I can disconnect pump #2 if it becomes a problem until I can have some decent weather to replace it, while still using the tub.

I’ll look into the suction switches here at some point, but I’m not super worried about not having them, given that we don’t have children and I wouldn’t let any children use the tub unsupervised either. Plus there are dual inlets for each pump so the pumps cannot become a complete suction hazard on there own.
 

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Whoo hoo!
Season 6 GIF
 

Rattus Suffocatus

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I was going to say that not having a suction sensor ... sucks ... but apparently.. it's was a big meh. Glad you have it online and running.

I need to do a water change and start using the spa again over thanksgiving. It's cold here with highs only in the high 60's/low 70's. (It's a DRY cold!) Spa time for sure! :) But man it's cold back in my old upper midwestern home region now... la Nina.. enjoy this winter.... Probably am going to visit Wisconsin in the spring. Let me know when it's warm there again....
 

Rattus Suffocatus

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Well.. I posted the same thread with the same title... I guess I will need to look for a good replacement heater. I am sure I got the lowest end one as my tub was considered to be a "starter tub"... But the "so it finally happened" thing is funny as that is what I posted not remembering this thread (except for subconsciously)...
 
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Mdragger88

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Well.. I posted the same thread with the same title... I guess I will need to look for a good replacement heater. I am sure I got the lowest end one as my tub was considered to be a "starter tub"... But the "so it finally happened" thing is funny as that is what I posted not remembering this thread (except for subconsciously)...
There was a thread the other day about the great customer service of wild west pool supplies. They have lots of spa supplies - maybe call them to see what would fit. I need to do this so i am ready if i need a replacement for my plug & play. I have had good experiences with spa depot as well.
 
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