Is my flow rate low? (and a few other inquiries)

DavidArmenB

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2022
259
Santa Clarita, CA
Pool Size
16500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
My pool is about 16,000 gallons with an attached ~600 gallon spa that spills over to the pool. It’s probably two decades old and the plumbing is not ideal. There are no plans for the pool construction that I can find. I’ve redone the entire pool pad plumbing but haven’t touched the underground plumbing from the pool to the pad.

There is only one 2” suction line coming to the pad. I have one old style Pentair skimmer where the single main drain from the pool connects to the skimmer. There was no float valve and no weir gate in the skimmer when I bought this house two months ago (with zero previous pool experience) so after much research I bought a weir door and a float valve and installed it with a new o-ring and set the little rotating valve on the bottom for ~40% skimmer ~60% main drain (is there a more efficient ratio?).
My spa has two drains, one is in the center of the floor and the second is on the wall. So the two drains of the spa and the pool skimmer line all combine somewhere underground and become a single 2” pipe which goes to the pad.

For the returns, there is one return in the spa and 3 returns in the shallow side of the pool, all of which also combine into one 2” pipe somewhere underground.
Near the spa, there are two really old valves inside the ground with metal handles. They are not three-way valves. They are simple straight pipes with valves in the middle. Turning one of the valves closes the skimmer line so only the spa drains are operational. Turning the second valve closes the single spa return and the three pool returns and opens two other spa returns. These two other spa returns are two of the four jets in the spa that blow air when I turn on my spa blower. How can a simple, non three-way valve both close a line and also open another line at the same time?
I deduced that turning both of the valves in the ground is pretty much “spa mode” where only the spa drains and spa returns are operational. I guess this is for faster heating of the water in the spa. These old valves are very worn out and slightly leaky but they have four screws which can remove the valve but I am unable to find replacements for these old metal valve assemblies.

So I have one 2” suction line and one 2” return line at the pool pad, which is about 25-30ft away from the pool/spa.

I upgraded to a 60sqft FNS plus DE Filter and an Intelliflo VSF pump.

The maximum flow rate I see on my Blue-White flow meter is about 60-65gpm even with the pump on 3000rpm to max speed. It’s about 40-
43gpm at 2000rpm and 18-20gpm at 1000rpm.

Should I be seeing more flow or is this normal for my setup?
 
I don’t see a heater listed in your signature.

65 GPM at full pump speed is a decent flow rate. I don’t think you have a big problem there given the inefficiencies of your old plumbing.
 
I don’t see a heater listed in your signature.

65 GPM at full pump speed is a decent flow rate. I don’t think you have a big problem there given the inefficiencies of your old plumbing.
I had gotten rid of the decades-old broken down Jandy LT heater a few weeks ago and, just yesterday, I replaced it with a Hayward, and added a bypass while I was at it. Just haven’t gotten around to updating my signature.

I had been hearing numbers such as 110-135gpm for 2” pvc so I wanted to ask people who are more experienced than myself. Thanks for the info!
 
I had been hearing numbers such as 110-135gpm for 2” pvc so I wanted to ask people who are more experienced than myself. Thanks for the info!

Those numbers are for a pump flowing through a pipe with no restrictions. Not real life examples of an old pool.
 
David,

Why do you even care about "flow"? What is not working? You are just making life hard on yourself.

The whole point of having a VS pump is to run it as slow as you can to get the job done. It really makes zero difference what the actual flow is as long as your heater works and your skimmers work.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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David,

Why do you even care about "flow"? What is not working? You are just making life hard on yourself.

The whole point of having a VS pump is to run it as slow as you can to get the job done. It really makes zero difference what the actual flow is as long as your heater works and your skimmers work.

Thanks,

Jim R.
I would imagine knowing the flow rate would help determine how long/fast to run the pump to get the proper turnover for the pool/spa, which is another confusion because you see turnovers ranging from 1.5 (24,000 gallons) all the way up to 3 (48,000 gallons) from different sources. I wouldn’t want to run the pump longer than needed just as I wouldn’t want to run it shorter than required. Am I missing something?
 
I would imagine knowing the flow rate would help determine how long/fast to run the pump to get the proper turnover for the pool/spa, which is another confusion because you see turnovers ranging from 1.5 (24,000 gallons) all the way up to 3 (48,000 gallons) from different sources. I wouldn’t want to run the pump longer than needed just as I wouldn’t want to run it shorter than required. Am I missing something?
Turnover is meaningless to pool sanitation or maintenance…

 
65 gpm does mean your plumbing is restrictive at high pump speeds. That's a dynamic head of 85-90 feet (see curves at back of pump manual), which is high. However the 40+ gpm at 2000 is much better: about 30 feet. This is just a strong hint as others have said to avoid high pump speeds.

nb: I've read the "Further Reading" article on turnover more than once. I have doubts. The FAU study was presented to two entities with a financial interest in the recommendations it makes. It's reasonable to assume they funded it. The senior PI is an electrical engineer. (No dis to EE's; but is this right for what's at heart a public health study?) It's not well-written. The rule-of-thumb conclusion it makes about pump run times is heavily qualified. In passing it implies that if your pool gets organic particulates that remain suspended (rather than floating or dropping quickly to the bottom), then more filtration is needed. My VSP still does about 2 turnovers a day.
 
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It is possible there is some over-thinking in this thread. I have always suggested to run your filtration system long enough to keep your pool clean.

Start at a reasonable speed and run time and then continue to shorten that filtration down until your pool no longer is as clean as you want it........then increase filtration back up a notch or two.
 
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Typical flow rate for an Intelliflo on 2" plumbing should be close to 100 GPM. So 65 GPM seems a little low for full speed.

But are you saying the flow rate does not change from 3000 RPM to 3450 RPM? That is not normal. 3450 should be about 15% higher than 3000 RPM.

What does the Intelliflo report as flow rate at full speed? Those blue-whites are not very accurate especially if they are not installed properly.
 
What size heater?

You need a minimum of 10 to 15 gpm per 100,000 btu/hr.

For example, a 400,000 btu/hr heater requires about 40 to 60 gpm.

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The pump should be ran the slowest speed for whatever you are trying to do. About 90% of the time I am running just fast enough to keep my salt system running. I don't have a flow gauge but the salt system manual says I need 20 gpm for the flow switch to close. Since turnover rate isn't a concern for me I had to calculate it. I get about 0.8 turnovers a day and my water stays clear all summer.
 
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