Intellicenter heating past the temperature set point.

[hawkmoon7]

The intellicenter is set to heating mode, at 85 degrees. Woke up this morning and the water was 87 and the heat pump was still on. Heater never turned off. Same thing happened in the spa. We set it to 96, and it rose to 100!

Here's the setup:
Thermeau electric heat pump has a 2-wire remote connector that is connected the the gas heater relay on the Intellicenter. Intelliecenter heater is set to gas (even though the heater is an electric heat pump).

Here' what works:
I can manually turn on the heat from the panel, and it will turn on the heater. Likewise, I can turn off the heater from the panel, and it will turn off the Thermeau.
If I turn on the pool, it will automatically turn on the heater.

Things I've tried:
I heard that a missing solar temp sensor can throw off the Intellicenter. I added one, and the Intellicenter now acknowledges a solar temp. Previously, it said "error."
Entered service mode and manually operated the "heater" button. The button does turn the heater on and off as expected.
Played around with many settings (anything heater related, like heat delay mode, etc.).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[hawkmoon7]

Problem solved! If it helps anyone: The addition of the solar sensor did worked, I just didn't realize it at first. (I chose to use a fixed 10k 1/4 watt resistor (which cost half a penny) rather than the 25 dollar sensor Pentair sells).

Previously, a temp setting of 85 caused it to never turn off. The pool eventually heated to 88 before I manually shut it down. After I added the solar sensor, it did work, but I did not realize it worked because I expected the heater to turn off at the set point (85). It continued to run for nearly an hour, but it did turn off on it's own before it reached 86. That's "working" in my mind.

It was more obvious that it worked in relation to the spa. Set point was at 94. Heated to 94, but did not turn off until 5 minutes later... again, before reaching 95.

My guess is that it is heating an extra 1/2 degree before shutting down. Which makes sense to me. But it did seem to require the faux solar sensor.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Hawk,

Thanks for the corrective action feedback...

Jim R.

 

[JamesW]

Your heat pump is probably set up as solar so that it can only run when the outside temperature is warm enough.

However, it does not have to be set as solar if you don't want it to work like that.

In any case, the water temperature set in the automation should not be exceeded by the actual water temperature.

So, something is wrong.

Maybe the temperature sensor is incorrect?

Does the water temperature displayed on the automation match the actual water temperature?

Maybe something isn't wired correctly?

Are the water, air and solar temperature sensors connected to the correct terminals?

 

[hawkmoon7]

Thanks JamesW. I can't explain why the Intellicenter would need to read a temp from a solar sensor when I don't have a solar heater, but it did seem to remedy the problem. Heater is set to "gas" as was recommended for my model heat pump. Out of curiosity, I removed the solar sensor temporarily and the heater no longer turned off at the set temperature. So it is clear to me that the software needs a valid reading from that sensor for some reason. (Without the sensor, the solar temp reads "error").

 

[JamesW]

The heater should never continue to heat past the set point.

The solar temperature sensor should not be related.

Many people don't have solar or a solar sensor, and they don't have an issue.

I don't know what's going on with your system, but I don't see how the solar temperature sensor would make any difference.

 

[JamesW]

If you don't have solar, the system should not be looking for a solar temperature or reporting an error when it does not find a solar reading.

Solar should not be enabled.

The heater's remote wire is probably connected to the wrong terminal on the circuit board.

I would recommend that you have the installer review the installation and make any necessary corrections.

 

[ajw22]

The solar temperature sensor is required when connecting a Pentair UltraTemp HP to the IntelliCenter using the RS-485 connection. See...

IntelliCenter Quick Reference/Information Guide

Preface - As the new Pentair IntelliCenter Automation Control System moves further into the mainstream of pool automation, there appears to be an increase in the amount of just basic questions recently regarding IntelliCenter installation, configurations and standard operation. Most of these...

www.troublefreepool.com

I think telling the IntelliCenter that your heater is gas may be part of your problem. But you are caught in Pentair not providing support for a non-Pentair heater. And I doubt Thermeau will help much. Thus is the problems of mixed vendor setups.

I would review how to tell the IntelliCenter you have a HP and not as a gas heater.

 

[ajw22]

Here are the Pentair instructions for connecting the UltraTemp HP using the gas heater terminals. See the note after point 9 about the solar sensor.

 

[JamesW]

That's only if you're using the heat pump with a gas heater.

If solar is not enabled, then the system should not be looking for a solar temperature reading.

Pentair programming is horrible.

Completely confusing nonsense.

 

[JamesW]

If it's set up like a gas heater, it should work the same way.

Basically, it just says run or stop.

Solar should not have anything to do with it.

Something is installed incorrectly or misconfigured in the programming.

 

[JamesW]

In any case, the heater should never continue to heat past the set point.

Any error should default to off and not on.

I would ask the installer to review the installation and make any necessary corrections or file a warranty claim.

 

[panic_button]

I think it is an UltraTemp issues. I have the same issue with mine (120H/C) using EasyTouch. Mine will continuously heat past the sent temperature 1-2 degrees before turning off. Pentair replaced the entire HP last year and the new one does the same thing. When you talk to tech support, heating team blames automation, automation blames heating team. I've spent 10+ hours in the past 2 weeks troubleshooting with them and they finally scheduled a field rep for next week to check all the parts.

 

[ajw22]

I think it is an UltraTemp issues. I have the same issue with mine (120H/C) using EasyTouch. Mine will continuously heat past the sent temperature 1-2 degrees before turning off. Pentair replaced the entire HP last year and the new one does the same thing. When you talk to tech support, heating team blames automation, automation blames heating team. I've spent 10+ hours in the past 2 weeks troubleshooting with them and they finally scheduled a field rep for next week to check all the parts.

Considering that the OP is not using an UltraTemp but another HP brand it would point to an automation bug. And the OP is using an IntelliCenter, not an ET.

 

[ajw22]

That's only if you're using the heat pump with a gas heater.

No it is not. That is clear from all of the UltraTemp HPs requiring the solar sensor.

Pentair has never explained why.

Yes, Pentair gets more and more confusing with their automation.

 

[JamesW]

Ok. It really doesn't make any sense to me. I must be missing something.

It would help if Pentair programming wasn't so convoluted and confusing.

 

[JamesW]

If the heat pump is being controlled by a fireman's switch like a gas heater, it should work exactly like a gas heater.

When the system wants the heater to heat, it closes the switch and the heater heats.

When the set point is reached, the system opens the fireman's switch and the heater should stop heating.

Why would the heater continue to heat if the fireman's switch is open?

So, the system must be keeping the fireman's switch closed, which means that a gas heater would have the same problem.

Why would the system keep the fireman's switch closed when the set point was reached?

It makes no sense. The system doesn't even know that there's a heat pump.

Solar should be disabled and the system shouldn't even be looking for a solar temperature.

If the heat pump is configured as solar, then maybe it will look for a solar temperature to make sure that the air is warm enough to heat. But, it could just use the air temperature reading.

If it's configured as a heat pump and not solar, it should work like a gas heater.

In any case, the heater should never continue to heat past the set point.

Any error should preferentially default to turning the heater off.

In my opinion, the system is not installed correctly or not configured correctly or there's a serious error in the programming software.

I would file a warranty claim with Pentair and describe the situation and ask them to figure it out.

 

[JamesW]

Any time that a heater heats past a set point, it's a serious issue.

For one thing, it's a safety hazard if the water gets too hot.

Another problem is that someone has to pay for all that wasted heat.

If this is a common problem with this equipment, it needs to be figured out and fixed.

 

[revitup]

I don’t believe that the heat pump should turn on or shut off at the set point. It would be kicking on and off continually. There should be an adjustable temp differential setting, for instance 3 degrees, which would trigger the heat on at 3 degrees below your set point and off at 3 degrees above the set point. That’s how our Hayward HP works anyway.

 

[csconner]

I have easytouch and ultra temp.

solar temp sensor is required for system to function correctly. I ran into this same issue before installing solar temp sensor using the RS-485 connectors For automation to HP communication. When system wa originally connected it was to gas heater, not RS-485. Encountered funky challenges with heating to beyond set point, once retired correctly everything functions correctly.

and yes easytouch sees the HP as solar heater, there is no HP personality.

regarding set temp, my system heats ( and cools) to the set point, pentair ultratemp (not easytouch) has adjustments for temp differential, not sure about your unit.