Installing SWG and ph controller

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rd3500

Bronze Supporter
Sep 28, 2021
42
Las Vegas
hi guys,

I ordered a calimar swg from unlimited pool supply and the wifi pool kit from atlas scientific, waiting for them to get here and in the meantime I was preparing for the installation.

I have a couple of questions, here is the situation right now

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this is where a chlorinator is installed right now (not in use anymore).

I am planning to put a 3 way valve at the exit of the water heater so I can have two lines:

- on the first line, in order: union, ph probe, acid feed line, salt cell, check valve. The salt cell would work also as a second union to remove the all line leaving the check valve to block the flow

- nothing on the second line, it is needed in case I need to bypass the first line

The two lines will reconnect and go into the ground.

Pipes are 2 inches and I wanted to know if it is easy to remove the existing fittings.

Specifically, the line going into the ground seems pretty close to the dirt already, I would prefer to remove reuse that 90 degree elbow as opposed to cut the pipe below it. I did some research a while back and I saw that is possible to heat the pipe on the inside to disconnect it but I have no idea how that works in practice and if it is feasible with my pipes that seem to be quite old (probably close to 20 years old)

And any other suggestion is welcomed :)
 
I wanted to add the current water chemistry before installing the SWG.

FC: 7
PH: 7.8
CYA: 60
TA: 160
CH: 350

I understand TA is high and has been like this for a while, don't know if I should be concerned or if it is ok to proceed. I still need to wait for the water temperature to rise a bit (I am in vegas, current water temperature is just at 50 degrees F).
 
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That is pretty much your fill water (excluding the CYA). The TA will come down as you take your pH from 7.8 to 7.4. I would be careful using an automated pH controller. Need to monitor CSI. Are you going to have softened water for fill water?
 
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@mknauss, I have a water softener at home and tried to use it to refill the pool when I drained it 30% (I had CYA at 140, I remember you helped me at the time). The water softener did not take it very well, so I am not planning to use it again.

@wireform, great idea about having a way to bypass the heater, did not think about that one, I guess I need 2 more 3 way valves to make a bridge between in and out pipes?
 
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mknauss said:
y, That is fine. Plan to drain and refill the pool with fresh water every 2 years or so.
Click to expand...

is that standard (meaning I would need to do it regardless) or a consequence of not softening the fill water?

About regulating PH automatically, I bought the pump that connects to the atlas pool kit and I am planning on putting that pump on a timer so it can run only 5 minutes per day at the most. I will then set up the pool kit to check for ph only once every 5 minutes, so the pump can actually run at the most one time per day (if the ph is higher than 7.8) and for 5 minutes max. Hopefully that's enough to prevent an acid dump.

I am trying to automate chlorine and ph and also have a way of checking the pool remotely because I might be away for 2 months during the summer. I am hoping to have it set up to last at least a few weeks with no intervention (and in case of a problem having somebody that I can call that can take care of it while I am away). I am assuming is important to control ph and for chlorine, if it gets a little bit higher, should be no problem given that nobody is really using the pool if I am away. That's my thinking at least.
 
rd3500 said:
is that standard (meaning I would need to do it regardless) or a consequence of not softening the fill water?
Click to expand...
Your CH level will rise 300-400 ppm per year due to evaporation. With softened water as make up water (not initial fill water), you will not need to drain for years.

If you are gone 2 months in the summer, it is wise to be able to add some acid. Great if you can automate it. I have a neighbor add some acid every 10 days or so when we leave for extended periods. I dilute the acid and mark a gallon jug at how much to add every 10 days. The pH does not stay very stable, but good enough with a lower CH. If your CH rises much above 500 ppm, then you need to keep the pH more controlled.

There is no reliable method to measure FC level remotely. So you just add more FC than you expect you will need with the SWCG. I hope you will be able to adjust the SWCG remotely.
 
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I had an automated ph system before on a much smaller scale and had a good experience with it, I hope I can replicated it for the pool, it will be a learning experience.

I don't think I can turn the dial on the SWCG remotely. I could think about connecting it to a smart plug and being able to shut it off at times but as you said:

mknauss said:
There is no reliable method to measure FC level remotely. So you just add more FC than you expect you will need with the SWCG.
Click to expand...

and if the values get completely out of wack, have somebody ready that I can call that physically can check. I will know temp, ph and orp remotely, that's already working (and I am very happy about that).
 

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I doubt ORP will work. In our climate, you need CYA levels of 70 ppm or higher to keep FC levels in the pool. And ORP does not work at those levels.
 
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almost all the parts are here for the SWCG installation, including the water heater bypass. Waiting for the last pieces this coming week (it will be cold anyway).

Here is the situation for the electrical panel, pictures below. The breaker I want to connect the SWCG to says "do not use" on the outside. I am wondering if it is because it is not connected to anything or because there is something wrong with it...

And I don't understand what the timer does, that's where the pump is connected to but the pump has it is own timer (intelliflow vsf) so it gets power 24/7. I guess the timer is just always on (and I am not going to touch anything related to the pump in the electrical panel give that it works fine).

Can I get power from the pump for the SWCG just to make sure the SWCG only runs when the pump is on? I don't think that's possible, it seems the SWCG uses quite a bit of power. I know there is a flow switch but I read more than once that they can break.

panel1.jpeg

panel 2.jpeg

panel 3.jpeg
 
rd3500 said:
I tested the salt in my pool water today and I am getting 800 ppm, that seems high considering there is no SWCG yet, no?
Click to expand...
If you have been adding chlorine and muriatic acid to your pool water, they both add salt. So no, that does not seem high. Depending on the last time you drained the pool, that seems low.
 
rd3500 said:
@mknauss, I have a water softener at home and tried to use it to refill the pool when I drained it 30% (I had CYA at 140, I remember you helped me at the time). The water softener did not take it very well, so I am not planning to use it again.
Click to expand...
A water softener won't be able to keep up with the demand of a large drain/refill of your pool. Each regeneration of the softener is around a couple thousand gallons of soft water - based on softener size. For a drain/refill, use non softened water. And then use softened water for makeup water due to evaporation.

Using your present pool CH and the CH of your jnsoftened tap water, you can figure out how much to drain/refill to get to your desired CH. For example, if pool CH is 750, tap water CH is 250, desired pool CH (after drain/refill) is 500 - you will need a 50% drain to achieve desired CH of 500.

I have my softener plumbed to my autofill - so my CH stays relatively the same .
 
If you need some help automating your pH control many of us have implemented Chem controller that monitors CSI and manages the pH level using the Atlas Scientific probes. This will also allow you to automate that timer panel. It is a bit of DIY but in the end it will manage your schedules, monitor your chemistry, dose acid demand, and control your heater.
github.com

DIY REM Chem Controller

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController
github.com github.com

github.com

DIY Standalone Nixie Pool Controller

An application to control pool equipment from various manufacturers. - tagyoureit/nodejs-poolController
github.com github.com
 
mknauss said:
If you have been adding chlorine and muriatic acid to your pool water, they both add salt. So no, that does not seem high. Depending on the last time you drained the pool, that seems low.
Click to expand...

thanks mknauss, yes, I have adding liquid chlorine and MA since end of september 2021, previously they used pucks. I am glad it is not high, last time pool was drained I think it was June 2021, before I bought the house.

proavia said:
I have my softener plumbed to my autofill - so my CH stays relatively the same .
Click to expand...

planning on doing the same, right now CH is at 350 so I should have a little bit of time.

@rstrouse thanks for the info, I have done a lot of research and never got there, looks awesome and well documented.
 
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