Im drowning and I cant get it right

[Orion7319]

I didn't decide it was a bad idea, just decided that the A-Team had a more preferential approach.... Blow it all up!!!

Ok then! Carry on! I just know from experience what being named “Sean” can do to a person … people always pronouncing you same as “scene” or “see Ann ” or “sin” can kinda have an effect on you… make you do crazy things…. Like thinking tunneling under your pool is a good idea… it’s not…

 

[Orion7319]

So my concern with the way the sand looked is that there may still be flocculant in the pool. Entire pump barrel was a milk white, sand was lumped and clumped with other stuff as described above, I don't want to run the pump with brand new sand tomorrow and destroy the sand before it even gets its first use. Should I set it to was and vacuum the floor of the pool again? Maybe recirculate and just bypass the sand but use some of the skimmer screens that go over the basket? I have no idea haha

Hopefully it’s broken down a lot by now. You might want to consider a partial drain and refill and obviously really clean out that filter before putting it all back together.

Flocculant - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Bperry]

Definitely bypass the filter until you are sure the floc is gone.

 

[SpoonMan80]

Good evening everyone. I bought my house last year March and it has a 20'x40' pool ranging from 4ft to 10ft deep. Gunite pool, 2 skimmers on the side, 3 returns in the pool, bottom main drain, vacuum port on skimmer wall, tile at water line only. 300lb Hayward sand filter, 2.5hp pump (brand new) I don't recall brand at the moment. 2 submerged wall lights (one is missing and I have putty sealed the wiring holes for the time being until I can replace it.) Lights on opposite wall of skimmer/vacuum port, water slide on same side as lights, diving board in deep end.

This pool is a beautiful thing for my wife and kids, for me it has been a money pit and a nightmare... pure nightmare. Replaced the sand, brand new vertical assembly in filter, brand new hosing and seals for the water slide (completely rebuilt it besides the prefab slide itself), rerun more than 30 ft of plumbing (quick patch will need to replace all of it when the proper equipment is available at supply store), have a leak in the plumbing of shallow end skimmer somewhere under deck, manual vacuum line has a leak and I keep it capped unless actively using it. Replaced the pump because the internal fan was shattered, capacitor was bad, housing was rotted under capacitor, viewing window was cracked.

I go into the pool store and get my water tested regularly and every single time its "buy this $250+ amount of chemicals, add this, reduce this, treat with this, come back test water and do it all again". The pool store is bleeding me dry and my water looks awful. Currently it is a hazy, nearly milky looking, color and no amount of shock, algecide, muratic acid, alkalizer, and the most recent nightmare of flocculent, is helping to clear the water or make it feel comfortable enough to even swim in.

I do not have an at home TF-100 (I think is what it's called) nor do I know how to use it. I have been reading this website for several days and am learning that I am pretty much beating a dead horse by going to the pool store all the time. Nothings changing except my wallet draining.

I am an open book, willing to learn, ready to implement proper guidance and prepared to finally swim with my family. If someone can please provide some resources to teach me how to be a happy pool owner and not prepare myself to learn how to play tennis in the backyard instead.

I have spent nearly $600 since 12 May. 2022 trying to just get my pool swimmable. Attached are a couple photos of my pool the white circle is where the leak in the skimmer and/or vacuum line is at (99% positive due to deck falling and low pressure to the skimmer on right. I lose about an inch of water every 5 days but only when the pump is on. It may be in the return as well, not positive), first 2 pictures are of the test reselt and recommendation from 5/26 and the last 2 are of the result and recommendations of the follow up test on 5/28. Following all guidance, My water is still cloudy/milky, it smells like 'pool' it is very hard on the skin and I feel I have done nothing but waste weeks of time and money.

Please help!!

View attachment 417407View attachment 417409View attachment 417410View attachment 417411

The 1st thing I see that is effecting your outcome is the pool store has your gallons incorrect. A 20'x40' with 4' shallow and 10' deep end has a volume of 42,000 gallons. You will never get your chemicals in line treating at 28,000 as they are . I'd start there you will see an improvement with the proper volume input in the equation. Best wishes,

 

[tim5055]

The 1st thing I see that is effecting your outcome is the pool store has your gallons incorrect. A 20'x40' with 4' shallow and 10' deep end has a volume of 42,000 gallons. You will never get your chemicals in line treating at 28,000 as they are . I'd start there and you will see an improvement with the proper volume input in the equation. Best wishes,

First time I've seen this thread, but a 20 X 40 with 4 & 10 is a lot more than 28,000. 42,000 is probably closer to correct.

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

First time I've seen this thread, but a 20 X 40 with 4 & 10 is a lot more than 28,000. 42,000 is probably closer to correct.

I am going to measure the pools interior surface tomorrow in 5 foot increments to get a fully accurate account of size, depth and gallons... I will need it because....

TOMORROW IS MY FIRST WATER TESTTT!!!!!

I have been at it non stop since 730am (at the time of posting yesterday morning) and it's now 230am and I FINALLY completed everything and did a full systems check, not a single drop of water from anywhere! I have never heard my pump amd system run so smooth and freely, not a scrap of air in it.



The unused line in the middle right is the wall vac, I am going to plug it tomorrow in the pump house, I plugged it already in the pool. When I open up the deck next week on the far end I am going to run that line down to the far skimmer and run each skimmer off an independent line. Bye bye wall vac!

The open end on the left (part temporarily being counter supported by the extension cord) is going to be the water slide port with an on/off valve for service/repair purposes (will remain open otherwise as I have a control valve at the slide itself).

Need to do some final cleanup, add 2 separating locks (blanking on the twist together threaded lock thingies, my brain is fried) to the system, put 2 hangars on the return line in the 2 service sections to support weight when detached from the rest of the system. When new timer comes on and new whip will turn the time to face the valves and move it behind but above the return line for super easy access. Everything is within arms reach at that point from power switch to filter valve to main drain shut off.

Pump is circulating pool water and tomorrow morning I will test and post my first ever results. Still a lot to do but soon I will actually be able to cool off after a hard day's work!

Thank you everyone for your help, guidance, suggestions and even just coming along for the journey. Definitely a huge motivator for me haha!!!

 

[Flying Tivo]

 

[jedigrover]

Woo hoo!

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

FC .5
CC .5
TC 1.0?

Calcium 450

TA 90

CYA 0<30

PH 7.0

78 degrees.


Results of my first test with the pool. Question from this is do I add the chemicals recommended all at the same time to the pool? Space "x" amount of time? Follow directions to fix Chlorine > pH > Alkalinity > etc, Or is there a specific order to do things to maintain stability of the other chemicals being added?




It's blue, just really cloudy (term I would use) Water is not clear at all but at least it's ble right?

 

[IceShadow]

Don’t worry about TA. Your pH will come up over time and is good now too.

Add 20ppm of CYA. Same time you can get your FC up to 12ppm and start the SLAM Process. Keep your FC at 12ppm via testing often and let the filter do its job to filter the cloudiness out. Scrub and brush often, and look for the spots algae can hide to focus on scrubbing out.

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

Don’t worry about TA. Your pH will come up over time and is good now too.

Add 20ppm of CYA. Same time you can get your FC up to 12ppm and start the SLAM Process. Keep your FC at 12ppm via testing often and let the filter do its job to filter the cloudiness out. Scrub and brush often, and look for the spots algae can hide to focus on scrubbing out.

Thank you. So I see everything I read about Chlorine and ppm is basically 1oz of Chlorine per 7500 gallons of water = 1ppm. So in 30,000gal of water, 4oz Chlorine = 1ppm. Is this math of ppm only for Chlorine or does this also apply to all chemicals based on the weight of 1lb per 125,000 gallons is 1 ppm and 1oz per 7500 gallons is 1ppm?

When it comes to chemicals, what is a good brand choice and/or where can you recommend that I buy them from? The pool store near me is primarily a baquacil retailer and anything else is poolife but the prices are astronomical and selection (other than baquacil products which I don't want) is very limited. They only sell salt or pucks, no liquid, no stabilizers except in combination with clarifier, algae, phos or some other form of dual purpose chemical.

 

[W.J.Christy]

Thank you. So I see everything I read about Chlorine and ppm is basically 1oz of Chlorine per 7500 gallons of water = 1ppm. So in 30,000gal of water, 4oz Chlorine = 1ppm. Is this math of ppm only for Chlorine or does this also apply to all chemicals based on the weight of 1lb per 125,000 gallons is 1 ppm and 1oz per 7500 gallons is 1ppm?

When it comes to chemicals, what is a good brand choice and/or where can you recommend that I buy them from? The pool store near me is primarily a baquacil retailer and anything else is poolife but the prices are astronomical and selection (other than baquacil products which I don't want) is very limited. They only sell salt or pucks, no liquid, no stabilizers except in combination with clarifier, algae, phos or some other form of dual purpose chemical.

What do you have for general stores around you? Walmarts, grocery, hardware etc... They all should have some standard bleach. Can be any branf so long as it doesn't have anything else in it. Stay away from ones that advertise scents, being dropless, or other special features. Check their labels, should be 10% sodium hypochlorite and 90% something else. Brand doesn't matter just that its straight bleach.

For ph, find some muriatic acid, hardware stores typically have it for cheap. Last trip to lowes I found 2 bottles of 31.45% for like 15 bucks. You can find it in the cleaner section or some stores have a pool section so check there. Lowes, home depot, ace, maybe tractor supply as well.

Those will get you started. After that any kind of baking soda or borax may come in handy, but you dont need that just yet.

The pool store is overrated and largely unnecessary now that you are here with us. You may never have to set foot in one again. Its been about 2 months since my last visit. The withdrawal was awful, but you will so much better in the end.

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

What do you have for general stores around you? Walmarts, grocery, hardware etc... They all should have some standard bleach. Can be any branf so long as it doesn't have anything else in it. Stay away from ones that advertise scents, being dropless, or other special features. Check their labels, should be 10% sodium hypochlorite and 90% something else. Brand doesn't matter just that its straight bleach.

For ph, find some muriatic acid, hardware stores typically have it for cheap. Last trip to lowes I found 2 bottles of 31.45% for like 15 bucks. You can find it in the cleaner section or some stores have a pool section so check there. Lowes, home depot, ace, maybe tractor supply as well.

Those will get you started. After that any kind of baking soda or borax may come in handy, but you dont need that just yet.

The pool store is overrated and largely unnecessary now that you are here with us. You may never have to set foot in one again. Its been about 2 months since my last visit. The withdrawal was awful, but you will so much better in the end.

Within a 30 minute drive we got multiple local feed stores and mom and pop hardware stores, a Walmart, Ace hardware, Lowe's, Home Depot, a ton of farmers markets (Gotta stop and get some off the vine blueberries and strawberries when doing a good day's work ).

Crazy how interchangeable some of the terms appear to be and I am afraid to completely mess it up.

So:
CYA = Bleach, or is bleach Liquid Chlorine?
Alkalinity = Baking soda, ash soda, borax
PH = Muriatic Acid
Liquid Chlorine = Free Chlorine?

So, to SLAM I will need to maintain a consistent level of FC for up to several days until everything stabilizes to less then 1ppm loss in 24 hours and below 0.5 CC. (Very generically written, will be following the directions in the slam guide posted above)

I am getting ready to head to Lowe's now, I hate to sound like I am talking to my wife when she sends me to the grocery store, but can I get a list?

Trying to cram my brain full of a lot of new information which is incredible and looking forward to this new way of doing it. I actually would prefer to never step foot in our pool store again. I also have the wife and kids getting ready to bring the kitchen knives out while I sleep because they can't swim yet hahaha.

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

Oh, this also reminds me of another question that I have seen asked on the forums.... skimmer sock vs no skimmer sock. I prefer to use skimmer socks as my dog's (2 great danes and a mini aussie) like to swim from time to time. The skimmer socks prevent their hair from getting into my filter. Does this reduce the efficiency of the products I am adding to the pool? I have also read to always use skimmer socks when adding granules to the skimmer to prevent them going through the pump and let them dissolve in the basket. I have also read to pre-mix, but then even as stated on this thread, pre-mix is just 1 more step and higher risk of spillage or making a mistake.

So, skimmer sock:
Is it preferred when adding granules?
Can I keep using them for dog hair purposes?
Do I need to remove them prior to adding any liquid chlorine/bleach/baking soda etc?

 

[Orion7319]

Oh, this also reminds me of another question that I have seen asked on the forums.... skimmer sock vs no skimmer sock. I prefer to use skimmer socks as my dog's (2 great danes and a mini aussie) like to swim from time to time. The skimmer socks prevent their hair from getting into my filter. Does this reduce the efficiency of the products I am adding to the pool? I have also read to always use skimmer socks when adding granules to the skimmer to prevent them going through the pump and let them dissolve in the basket. I have also read to pre-mix, but then even as stated on this thread, pre-mix is just 1 more step and higher risk of spillage or making a mistake.

So, skimmer sock:
Is it preferred when adding granules?
Can I keep using them for dog hair purposes?
Do I need to remove them prior to adding any liquid chlorine/bleach/baking soda etc?

Skimmer socks. Just put them in and rinse them out when they get full and dirty. Which will basically be all the time.
CYA=stabilizer. Use the granular stuff it’s a lot cheaper. To add it use the sock method. Basically you add the CYA to a sock and suspend that in front of a return jet. You may squeeze the sock after about 30 min or so to get it do dissolve faster. Don’t try to add the entire amount at once. Creep up on it. If you add too much you got to drain some water to remove it. They sell this at the box stores. Pick some up along with the 10% liquid chlorine shock and the Muriatic Acid.

 

[MITBeta]

So I see everything I read about Chlorine and ppm is basically 1oz of Chlorine per 7500 gallons of water = 1ppm. So in 30,000gal of water, 4oz Chlorine = 1ppm.

It depends on the concentration of the chlorine you add. Use PoolMath to figure your chemical additions.

 

[SeanThePoolFreshman]

First time I've seen this thread, but a 20 X 40 with 4 & 10 is a lot more than 28,000. 42,000 is probably closer to correct.

So measuring the interior wall, top and midline inside the pool is 19'x39' (I know it's an odd number but that's the water bearing surface measurement. The depth is 3'6" shallow and 8'6" deep. The measurements are very different from what the previous owner and the pool store both had stated/recorded.


Using this calculator this is the numbers it comes up with. The floor measurements are consistent from floor to water line from about 16" off the wall curve.

 

[Orion7319]

So measuring the interior wall, top and midline inside the pool is 19'x39' (I know it's an odd number but that's the water bearing surface measurement. The depth is 3'6" shallow and 8'6" deep. The measurements are very different from what the previous owner and the pool store both had stated/recorded.

View attachment 419746
Using this calculator this is the numbers it comes up with. The floor measurements are consistent from floor to water line from about 16" off the wall curve.

Here’s the thing. You don’t have to be exactly spot on with this stuff to manage your pool. You will be adding chlorine to kill bad stuff, not calculating a trajectory for a probe to land on Mars. Start with your pool volume in pool math as 33,350. Add in enough chlorine or acid or baking soda to reach the target it says you will get. If your a bit low, add some volume in pool math. If your a bit high, decrease the volume a bit until your dialed in. As long as your not way way off your good. You only have to worry about over shooting CYA, calcium hardness and salt (to a degree) if you have a salt pool because you can only dilute by draining and refilling to bring those down. That’s why we say to start to add low with CYA and creep up on the target. Eventually you might have some weird random number as your pool volume in pool math because that number gets you close enough when adding stuff. My number in pool math is 19775 because it works really well for me. I started out thinking my pool was 25,000 gallons because that’s what the pool store had on file from the previous owners.

 

[kimkats]

WOW! I have finally had a chance to read this wonderful thread!!! SO many great people on here!

The one thing that I do not see is how you are going to backwash the filter? You can and should also pipe in a way to drain to waste if needed down the road.

Great danes??? 2 of them??? and a mini aussie??? PICTURES PLEASE!!!

CYA=stabilizer or balancer
FC=chlorine be it liquid or powder BUT watch the powder as it has CYA in it and can push the CYA too high if you use too many.

Chlorine-see if you ACE has a tank for chlorine. Mine does and it is the best price around!

Kim

 

[Mdragger88]

Don’t worry with the toilet paper math on the packages of products. It only leads to more confusion. PoolMath does the calculations for u.
All the terms u listed 1st are the actual parameters - fc, cya, ph, ta, ch etc.
the latter are the corresponding chemicals to adjust them.
Cya = Cyanuric Acid/ stabilizer/ conditioner
Fc = Free Chlorine (the good stuff that kills nasties)
- liquid chlorine/bleach/liquid shock adds fc & a little salt
Other forms add other things as well
Cal hypo adds fc, calcium, & salt
Trichlor & dichlor add fc, cya, salt & are acidic so they lower ph.
Do not add any chemicals to your skimmer.
Bleach is to be poured in slowly in front of a return- brush the area after.
You do use a skimmer sock to add granular cya but it needs to be tied in a knot so the granules don’t come out. Some people sit it in the skimmer until it gets squishy (if it doesn’t obstruct water flow) then it is hung infront of a return jet until it dissolves- not touching the pool wall. Give the sock a squeeze periodically. This ensures the cya is IN the water & not trapped in your filter media. You can test for it the next day to see where u actually landed but chlorinate immediately according to the FC/CYA Levels like its there.
This article really lays out the answers to the questions u have
ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry