Im drowning and I cant get it right

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jedigrover said:
Sure. I have a redneck idea for that main drain that involves a trash bag.
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IF you could use a pool pole to manipulate a trash bag over the main drain (pump off), then open up that line, after the water in the line drains, the pressure of the pool water should seal the bag right to the drain. Hopefully not puncturing it… that would hold the water off long enough to install a stop valve. Then the challenge would be to get the bag out again. There are a lot of ways this could go sideways, draining your pool or sending the bag down the line. Could try a heavier plastic, but must deform enough to seal. There is also the jet swet tool that would help insure a seal while gluing up a union end, but $80 for a tool you might only use once is pretty spendy.

“If you use a trash bag to plug the main drain of your swimming pool, you might be a redneck!”
 
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Alright y'all, artistic competition for this year has begun... so far there is one entry so judge accordingly:

Current setup:
20220602_200307.jpg


My thoughts on desires setup:

20220602_202313.jpg

Befits to redesign:
- Direct path from pump out to filter in via 1 90° versus 3
- Check valves between pool and shutoff for each line to prevent backflow during service/maintenace/repair
- reduce Current 90° setups from filter to returns from 3 to 1
- implement a diverter to water slide
- check valve between return and diverter
- check valve between slide and diverter
- install lock nuts at pump inlet, filter inlet and filter outlet for easy maintenance/repair
- Install proper 25' drain house from filter to runoff outside (Current setup is just a pvc pipe that shoots the water at the ground and floods it to the outside under the pump house foundation)
- more pad access for ease and working area
- no more stepping on or over pipes and equipment to access various areas, it's all within arms length
- can install proper hangars to hold pipes in place using pump house rafters rather than sitting on very wobbly stones
- during heavy winter freeze heat lamps will more efficiently heat pump and filter (previous filter impeller shattered due to hard freeze and lower heat from lamps
- install peg board on wall to hold tools and replacements for pump and equipment no longer getting wet during backwash cycles or waste
- sand removal will no longer be conducted directly over the pump but instead from a safe distance
- pump house is insulated fully, possibly be able to store chemicals safely in pump house opposed to in the shed on the other side of the yard?


Thoughts, ideas, improvements/tweaks, feedback?
 
jedigrover said:
IF you could use a pool pole to manipulate a trash bag over the main drain (pump off), then open up that line, after the water in the line drains, the pressure of the pool water should seal the bag right to the drain. Hopefully not puncturing it… that would hold the water off long enough to install a stop valve. Then the challenge would be to get the bag out again. There are a lot of ways this could go sideways, draining your pool or sending the bag down the line. Could try a heavier plastic, but must deform enough to seal. There is also the jet swet tool that would help insure a seal while gluing up a union end, but $80 for a tool you might only use once is pretty spendy.

“If you use a trash bag to plug the main drain of your swimming pool, you might be a redneck!”
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I actually fully considering a trash bag. Worse case scenario, I have to snake it out later or pulling out of the pump catch.
 
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I’m not sure you need those checks on your suction side since yours is a flooded setup. The weight of the water is likely to push them open unless they are pretty strong. And you could achieve the same with one check between the 3-way and the pump in that case. I use a check on my suction side since my pump is above the pool & I don’t want back-drain from filter thru pump when the pump is off. If you don’t need them, and you already have 2-ways and are adding a 3-way as a balance between skimmers and main/vac, you could just use the 2-ways you have as service stops. Except I seem to remember they were pretty far into the shed and you might want to move them for space needs.

Try to make sure you have at least 10” (5x pipe diameter) of straight pipe run (no elbows, valves of any kind, or tees) going into the pump. Your motor bearings will last much longer if you do that.
 
jedigrover said:
I’m not sure you need those checks on your suction side since yours is a flooded setup. The weight of the water is likely to push them open unless they are pretty strong. And you could achieve the same with one check between the 3-way and the pump in that case. I use a check on my suction side since my pump is above the pool & I don’t want back-drain from filter thru pump when the pump is off. If you don’t need them, and you already have 2-ways and are adding a 3-way as a balance between skimmers and main/vac, you could just use the 2-ways you have as service stops. Except I seem to remember they were pretty far into the shed and you might want to move them for space needs.

Try to make sure you have at least 10” (5x pipe diameter) of straight pipe run (no elbows, valves of any kind, or tees) going into the pump. Your motor bearings will last much longer if you do that.
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Ah, glad you brought up the diameter. So, all of my plumbing is 1.5" as opposed to 2". The pump is designed for 2" and I am wondering if the fittings on the plumbing side of the pool wall are actually 2" as well but everything was run on a 2"-1.5" adapter. I don't know that it would really matter, or maybe it's to increase the pressure to thereby increase the circulation in the pool. I am wondering though would this cause less water daily to cycle through filter or even cause a reduction in total circulation?

Yes, the current length from the ground pipe 90° just to the 2 way valves for skimmer, vac and main are about 3.5 feet, than another foot to the junction leading to the pump inlet. I would love to reduce this down to roughly 12-14".

Your right about the check valves, my brain was not computing that in order to function to stop flow during service, they would also stop flow during operation. The 2 ways are sufficient for this. I won't be using the wall vac, so that 2 way will just keep flow to that line off. The 3 way Jandy will allow me to regulate full pressure from skimmers and 1/3rd pressure from main drain during normal operation with the use of only 1 valve. The 2 way on those lines will essentially remain wide open except during maintenance.

Length from the 3way at skimmer to pump would be exactly 12", so achieves more than 2x pipe diameter requirement if I understood that part right.
 
SeanThePoolFreshman said:
Ah, glad you brought up the diameter. So, all of my plumbing is 1.5" as opposed to 2". The pump is designed for 2" and I am wondering if the fittings on the plumbing side of the pool wall are actually 2" as well but everything was run on a 2"-1.5" adapter. I don't know that it would really matter, or maybe it's to increase the pressure to thereby increase the circulation in the pool. I am wondering though would this cause less water daily to cycle through filter or even cause a reduction in total circulation?

Yes, the current length from the ground pipe 90° just to the 2 way valves for skimmer, vac and main are about 3.5 feet, than another foot to the junction leading to the pump inlet. I would love to reduce this down to roughly 12-14".

Your right about the check valves, my brain was not computing that in order to function to stop flow during service, they would also stop flow during operation. The 2 ways are sufficient for this. I won't be using the wall vac, so that 2 way will just keep flow to that line off. The 3 way Jandy will allow me to regulate full pressure from skimmers and 1/3rd pressure from main drain during normal operation with the use of only 1 valve. The 2 way on those lines will essentially remain wide open except during maintenance.

Length from the 3way at skimmer to pump would be exactly 12", so achieves more than 2x pipe diameter requirement if I understood that part right.
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You got it. That should work. As a general rule, the outlet of the pump should have equal or smaller diameter pipe than the inlet. It is pretty standard practice in most fluid applications with centrifugal pumps to size the suction piping 1 size higher than the discharge piping. That way, the discharge pressure limits the flow. You never want the suction side to limit the flow because that’s when you can get cavitation. In a flooded situation like yours, it’s less critical, but I still wouldn’t use a larger size on the discharge side. Since you are bringing both skimmers and main drain in, it will be more efficient and you’ll get more flow if you build your manifold past their stop valves and up to the pump with 2” or even 2.5”. Instead of trying to move 2 1.5” lines through 1, you can move more through a 2” line. You’ll get more water moving in both lines doing it that way. Still limited by the discharge side (assuming that is also 1.5”).
 
jedigrover said:
You got it. That should work. As a general rule, the outlet of the pump should have equal or smaller diameter pipe than the inlet. It is pretty standard practice in most fluid applications with centrifugal pumps to size the suction piping 1 size higher than the discharge piping. That way, the discharge pressure limits the flow. You never want the suction side to limit the flow because that’s when you can get cavitation. In a flooded situation like yours, it’s less critical, but I still wouldn’t use a larger size on the discharge side. Since you are bringing both skimmers and main drain in, it will be more efficient and you’ll get more flow if you build your manifold past their stop valves and up to the pump with 2” or even 2.5”. Instead of trying to move 2 1.5” lines through 1, you can move more through a 2” line. You’ll get more water moving in both lines doing it that way. Still limited by the discharge side (assuming that is also 1.5”).
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Currently all of the visible plumbing, and the exposed plumbing coming out of the ground, inlet/discharge/return are all 1.5" (with the exception of about 3 total feet of really bad coupling size adjusters that I am cutting out.

The skimmers I can easily make 2" all the way from pool to pump. The main drain I need to expose the pipe up to the pool as much as I can to see what size it is all the way down. Getting to the drain is a 100% whole other issue as I will have to tunnel underneath the pool and build up supports as I go. The drain is 6 feet from the pool wall on the pump side of the pool and is a total of 25' from the pump itself. I can expose roughly 15' of the line with some work. What I see coming out of the ground is 1.5" though. The pump has a 2" inlet and outlet and I just bought 2"-1.5" conversions F-to-M to fit the current pipes. So, if I am understanding properly, you are saying I can super simplify the whole thing by converting everything from the 2-way valves to the inlet of the pump to 2 inch (circled in turquoise in the picture below) and keeping everything from the outlet side to filter and return from filter to pool as 1.5"?

20220602_202313.jpg
 

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MITBeta said:
Get some clear primer. So much nicer than the purple stuff.
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I actually wish I would have thought about that when I was out. I like things looking pretty but I have so much financially invested in this rebuild already that even a $5 cab of clear primer makes my tear up haha
 
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SeanThePoolFreshman said:
I actually wish I would have thought about that when I was out. I like things looking pretty but I have so much financially invested in this rebuild already that even a $5 cab of clear primer makes my tear up haha
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Don't worry about it. I use purple primer. If you are careful to just prime the 1.5" that's going into the socket, and then wipe off the excess glue with a rag after the joint is glued, you will have a nice, neat result. With practice, you get to where you can eyeball it quite well.

The reason for purple or blue dye in primer is so that a plumbing inspector can verify that the joint was primed when he's doing the plumbing inspection.
Same thing with the red color on fire-retardant caulking and foam sealants. In many cases, there is nothing different between that product and a standard product other than the dye. But the dye allows the inspector to visually confirm that what was used was meant & certified for that application.
 
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Alright,so we faced a few set backs today. The Flocculant (and whatever else mix of a billion chemicals) that I put in the pool turned my sand into pretty much clay and stone. My laterals broke so got a new vertical and lateral setup for the filter, scrubbed the barrel out and emptied all the sand. Plus side is, sand will settle into the pits around the slab to reinforce the pumphouse walls and the slab itself, wooohoooo. Got everything cleaned up and cleared so tomorrow I can dry fit plumbing, check for placement, glue and seal everything, repair the door to pump house, seal up pump house, prime the system and filter, put in the sand and get everything running.
20220603_162336.jpg20220603_162316.jpg

All of this will be set back up and ready to go just in time to USE MY TEST KIT!!!!!!!
20220603_162742.jpg20220603_162836.jpg

Now I am getting excited!!!
 
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SeanThePoolFreshman said:
The main drain I need to expose the pipe up to the pool as much as I can to see what size it is all the way down. Getting to the drain is a 100% whole other issue as I will have to tunnel underneath the pool and build up supports as I go.
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I hope I missed where you decided this would be a bad idea… I mean this sounds like something out of an episode of Hogans Hero’s….
 
So my concern with the way the sand looked is that there may still be flocculant in the pool. Entire pump barrel was a milk white, sand was lumped and clumped with other stuff as described above, I don't want to run the pump with brand new sand tomorrow and destroy the sand before it even gets its first use. Should I set it to was and vacuum the floor of the pool again? Maybe recirculate and just bypass the sand but use some of the skimmer screens that go over the basket? I have no idea haha
 

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