IG Vinyl Build: It's Happening!

I cannot reccomend going OB strongly enough. Dealing with the crews directly is far superior to hoping the PB understands or remembers it all when retelling the subs.

And when they screw up, it's cutting out the middle man there as well, removing both of their ability to finger point at the other.

People fear that as a one time client, they will be the low job on the important list for the work crews, and that's true to an extent, but how's the other way working for ya ? (Not being rude, just pointing out the flip side. Plus, waiting a year + for my own PB to get started, you know I feel ya :))

Whether you take the reigns or hire another PB, you are going to be all over it like white on rice. If you have to GC it, even with a hired GC, then why pay though the nose for a middle man ?
 
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Agreed with Newdude on the viability of OB. Whether you do some work yourself or not, I've been able to speed up the 'best case' timeline that I was given by a local PB by at least a full year by going OB. It's work, and it's frustrating, but I've never felt like I needed to call in a PB to figure something out. If anything, it has been eye-opening to me how lucrative being a PB can be.
 
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Appreciate all of the info :). None of you are wrong. Back to the drawing board, first PB I find I'm confident in or once I'm comfortable I've planned out/can do an OB, I'll pull the trigger. After all, it's just money right! Still have my 🤞 crossed and a miracle happens with my current PB but am definitely not holding me breath. Anyone know of a good OB thread on here where the OB had no tools/resources and subbed out virtually all of the build for vinyl build?
 
Well, that miracle may be occurring (although I'm still skeptical). I showed up to PB's office this morning, fully expecting no one to be there. Lo and behold, a bastion of activity. Crews getting all kinds of vans/trucks ready for the day. Both owners were even in. PB sees me standing in the doorway, like, "Oh hey, you're just standing in the doorway, come into my office." I assume he thought I was going to start making a scene in front of everyone. I was completely prepared to make a scene and after today's visit was expecting to call my contacts at Fox 8 to start a big exposé. Before I can lay into him, he's like, "I know, I know. I've been able to hire some new guys and a sub crew. We're moving forward. Let me finish up two things I'm working on, and you'll be up in a few weeks." He's like "I'm telling you face to face, your pool will be done this year." I made him repeat all of this multiple times and told him it better this year, or it's going to be a problem. We're supposed to get together next week to confirm dates/his plans. We'll see.

Lord help me. Could this really be happening? If it doesn't, he's fired, I'm gonna fight for my money and go OB next year because I won't be able to do it this year. I got confirmation from the 2 PB's I would trust to do it, both are retiring this year.
 
Sure hope they get started when he said this time. It's so frustrating when you think they will start on time and you will be using before summer is over and then bam, you get to the point of I don't care now, just want it done this year.
 
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Saw the post in another thread about a PB getting arrested in GA. Well, my PB may not be far behind. PB has promptly ignored me for 2 weeks since telling me I was a few weeks away from getting started. A miracle did happen though (albeit perhaps an expensive miracle)! The other PB I would trust to build the pool who said he was retiring, out of nowhere, comes to my house this morning, we talked, says if I can get the kit from my PB and PB's supplier (I've verified it is sitting in the warehouse 5 miles from my house) he will build my pool end September/begin October! Wow! Went to PB's office (he doesn't answer phone, respond to text or emails) and only his office person was there. I told her I'm done, he either builds the pool now or gives me the kit and I need his answer today. We shall see....
 
Well? It's "tomorrow". Crossing my fingers for the very best outcome for you!!!!

rotflmao GIF


At least you didn't hold your breath. Nothing. I'm tired of having to try to catch the PB in person at his office. Hindsight being 20/20, I guess it's a good thing that I picked the PB who's office is closest to my house. I'm not even sure a subpoena would get a response!
 
Well, PB was finally honest with me (maybe, don't trust anything he says). I stopped in this morning to catch him. Said he was in middle of writing me a 6 page e-mail (what a chicken sh*t), didn't even want to talk to me. I have 3 choices:

1) Wait for him with no guarantee of what will happen (and a build that is for sure to be a nightmare).
2) He said he'd give deposit back
3) He's working with supplier SPP to get difference for my deposit to get me the kit (oh also, the liner he has told me 800 times is in the warehouse, is not, never ordered).

I think he'll work with me whatever I want to do to avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure he's going to have lawsuits coming his way, if not from me, them from somebody. I know each state is different, but do you think there's any legal recourse for increased costs of having someone else do the work that he wouldn't/couldn't do (@Dirk)?

I hate this pool, already ruined 2 years of my life! The worst part is that I thought $5,000 would be worth a little extra aggravation. 100% is not, should've went with our first instinct. #WorstDecisionEver
 
Well, PB was finally honest with me (maybe, don't trust anything he says). I stopped in this morning to catch him. Said he was in middle of writing me a 6 page e-mail (what a chicken sh*t), didn't even want to talk to me. I have 3 choices:

1) Wait for him with no guarantee of what will happen (and a build that is for sure to be a nightmare).
2) He said he'd give deposit back
3) He's working with supplier SPP to get difference for my deposit to get me the kit (oh also, the liner he has told me 800 times is in the warehouse, is not, never ordered).

I think he'll work with me whatever I want to do to avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure he's going to have lawsuits coming his way, if not from me, them from somebody. I know each state is different, but do you think there's any legal recourse for increased costs of having someone else do the work that he wouldn't/couldn't do (@Dirk)?

I hate this pool, already ruined 2 years of my life! The worst part is that I thought $5,000 would be worth a little extra aggravation. 100% is not, should've went with our first instinct. #WorstDecisionEver
That really sucks that you already hate the pool and ruined 2 years of your life.

I'd go with option #3 unless the other builder is gonna cost you a lot more??

Hopefully you can get it built with the other builder and turn into a positive experience and a beautiful pool that you all will love.
 

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I would cut the cord with your PB as soon as you can work out a reasonable settlement and move on with a different builder.

I would not want to be working with a builder who is being distracted by lawsuits from others.
 
That really sucks that you already hate the pool and ruined 2 years of your life.

I'd go with option #3 unless the other builder is gonna cost you a lot more??

Hopefully you can get it built with the other builder and turn into a positive experience and a beautiful pool that you all will love.
I'm working on option #3. It'll probably be like a hybrid OB/PB, so gotta get some ducks in a row. It's definitely going to be more expensive (so much for all of my financial security I've built up over the years, down the proverbial main drain!). But I've got a wife and 4 little kids who've been waiting on this pool for 2 years. Can't let them down.
 
I'm working on option #3. It'll probably be like a hybrid OB/PB, so gotta get some ducks in a row. It's definitely going to be more expensive (so much for all of my financial security I've built up over the years, down the proverbial main drain!). But I've got a wife and 4 little kids who've been waiting on this pool for 2 years. Can't let them down.
Sending good vibes your way that you get this worked out. I can't even imagine the stress this has caused you, I would of lost my S***!!! Heck I did lose my S*** and my circumstances haven't been anywhere remotely close to what you've had to deal with.

I have no doubt that you won't let your wife and kids down.
 
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I think he'll work with me whatever I want to do to avoid a lawsuit. I'm sure he's going to have lawsuits coming his way, if not from me, them from somebody. I know each state is different, but do you think there's any legal recourse for increased costs of having someone else do the work that he wouldn't/couldn't do (@Dirk)?
Hmm, interesting question. I guess you'd have to prove your damages, and that would be tough to do.

Say you had two bids, way back when, and the contractor you didn't select was now going to do the job, but was going to charge you an extra $10K, and his new estimate was identical to his first (except the price) and he includes in writing that the difference was due to increased materials and labor costs. That might be considered proof that getting strung along for two years has resulted in a $10K hit. That might be considered damages.

But without that other bid as a reference, how would you prove that this new contractor's "up charge" is not due to some other cause? It could be argued that this new guy just charges more. Or does better work. I can't imagine you'll find a contractor willing to put in writing that he would have charged you $10K less two years ago. But even if you could, I'm not sure how a judge would receive such a ploy.

Your "loss of use" might be considered damages. But how does one quantify what it cost them not to have a pool? If you had receipts for the local swim club (one of those that sells you a membership to swim), you might try to prove that you had to pay to give your family the swim experience that they should have had in your backyard, but without something like that, what dollar value could you claim? I think it might be hundreds, but not thousands.

I think your biggest legal challenge is that he's said he would still build your pool. He's making you fire him, he's not technically quitting, and if your contract doesn't have any timeline, then he hasn't really breached it. He's probably not that clever, I think he would build your pool if he could, but he's giving you (and himself) an out because he's overwhelmed. I'm not defending him, just guessing that he just doesn't know what else to do for you. This is his version of doing the right thing, and if you (or he) showed that to the judge, and he describes his labor/materials challenges, would a judge be inclined to ding him for things that could reasonably be considered outside of his control?

Or you could just let a judge decide: Looks like OH's State's Small Claims Court limit is $6K. If there is an additional cost of someone else building your pool, then for 50 bucks (or whatever OH's filing fee is), you can go to court and make your case. Even if your pool costs $10K more, sue for $6K (but tell the judge it was $10K). If you win, you win, if not, you'll know, and you'll only be out the cost of filing. But...

That could backfire. I can hear the contractor defending himself with "Judge, I said I would build his pool, but he wanted out, so I offered him an out and I gave him his deposit back already. I'll still build it, I just don't know when." And the judge could rule "OK, build his pool by end of November, or pay $6K." Would that be a win for you? Would you want him to build your pool at this point? Would he hold a grudge for being forced to build your pool? Something to consider before you pull the trigger on a suit.

Frankly, I don't think much has changed, other than you now have in writing you can get your deposit back (assuming he sent you that email, ask him to if he didn't). You've still got the same choice you had yesterday. You're still stuck waiting for this guy indefinitely, or stuck trying to find someone else to build your pool. Sorry to state the obvious, just my usual devil's advocate stuff. Which is my weird way of consoling you? You're down on the pool, and I'm truly sorry these circumstances have made you feel that. But you're actually a tiny bit better off than you were yesterday. Really, only the false hope has been eliminated (which is a good thing, even though it doesn't feel that way just now), and you now know you have the option of getting your deposit back (which is a pretty big deal, since that was not at all a given yesterday). So now you're free to make a more informed decision: wait, OB, or a new contractor search. Based on what you've been living with up until now, maybe that's really not as bad as it sounds.

You're also now free to contact other contractors, without really losing anything or ticking off your contractor. You could tell your guy you're going to think about it. Then make some calls. Research OB. See if you can get any other bids, etc. If that get's back to your contractor, he can't really take that the wrong way, as he might have otherwise.

So yes, you now know for certain you're not going to get to swim in 2022. But you've probably always known that deep down, and now you can stop hoping otherwise and make some real plans. Once you get over this shock, and are able to put the past behind you, you can use this turn of events to your advantage.
 
That sucks to hear how this is all come down, but the good news, is it looks like you can move on.

3) He's working with supplier SPP to get difference for my deposit to get me the kit (oh also, the liner he has told me 800 times is in the warehouse, is not, never ordered).
I'm working on option #3.
I know option 3 sounds tempting because of the cost, but it also requires you to continue to deal with this builder, and a full refund of the deposit cuts the cord as quickly as possible and you can move on. Yes, it may seem to cost more to build the pool with a different builder because of price increases, but will it, will it really cost more? I've gone through this thread, there is nothing about this builder that suggests he is really going to build the pool, so this, kind of "paper cost" to build this pool doesn't seem real anyway. It may feel real for sure, but if it never happens, he could have never done it for that price anyway. Plus, is would seem like even if you did decide to keep working with this guy, any change order, issues, problems, would surely cost more along the way, cause why would he not? Liner not ordered? Costs more. Some glitch in the contract? Costs more. Plus the pure aggravation this would continue to cause can not be worth some savings on some of the equipment, can it?

I agree, take the money and run!
 
I think your biggest legal challenge is that he's said he would still build your pool. He's making you fire him, he's not technically quitting, and if your contract doesn't have any timeline, then he hasn't really breached it.
+1. He's still offering to build your pool. His costs have gone up as well. If he is transferring them to you, then it's an even easier decision to pay someone else more. If you chose to fire him, then those added costs are on you and not recoverable in court. (IMO)
 
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Hmm, interesting question. I guess you'd have to prove your damages, and that would be tough to do.

Say you had two bids, way back when, and the contractor you didn't select was now going to do the job, but was going to charge you an extra $10K, and his new estimate was identical to his first (except the price) and he includes in writing that the difference was due to increased materials and labor costs. That might be considered proof that getting strung along for two years has resulted in a $10K hit. That might be considered damages.

But without that other bid as a reference, how would you prove that this new contractor's "up charge" is not due to some other cause? It could be argued that this new guy just charges more. Or does better work. I can't imagine you'll find a contractor willing to put in writing that he would have charged you $10K less two years ago. But even if you could, I'm not sure how a judge would receive such a ploy.

Your "loss of use" might be considered damages. But how does one quantify what it cost them not to have a pool? If you had receipts for the local swim club (one of those that sells you a membership to swim), you might try to prove that you had to pay to give your family the swim experience that they should have had in your backyard, but without something like that, what dollar value could you claim? I think it might be hundreds, but not thousands.

I think your biggest legal challenge is that he's said he would still build your pool. He's making you fire him, he's not technically quitting, and if your contract doesn't have any timeline, then he hasn't really breached it. He's probably not that clever, I think he would build your pool if he could, but he's giving you (and himself) an out because he's overwhelmed. I'm not defending him, just guessing that he just doesn't know what else to do for you. This is his version of doing the right thing, and if you (or he) showed that to the judge, and he describes his labor/materials challenges, would a judge be inclined to ding him for things that could reasonably be considered outside of his control?

Or you could just let a judge decide: Looks like OH's State's Small Claims Court limit is $6K. If there is an additional cost of someone else building your pool, then for 50 bucks (or whatever OH's filing fee is), you can go to court and make your case. Even if your pool costs $10K more, sue for $6K (but tell the judge it was $10K). If you win, you win, if not, you'll know, and you'll only be out the cost of filing. But...

That could backfire. I can hear the contractor defending himself with "Judge, I said I would build his pool, but he wanted out, so I offered him an out and I gave him his deposit back already. I'll still build it, I just don't know when." And the judge could rule "OK, build his pool by end of November, or pay $6K." Would that be a win for you? Would you want him to build your pool at this point? Would he hold a grudge for being forced to build your pool? Something to consider before you pull the trigger on a suit.

Frankly, I don't think much has changed, other than you now have in writing you can get your deposit back (assuming he sent you that email, ask him to if he didn't). You've still got the same choice you had yesterday. You're still stuck waiting for this guy indefinitely, or stuck trying to find someone else to build your pool. Sorry to state the obvious, just my usual devil's advocate stuff. Which is my weird way of consoling you? You're down on the pool, and I'm truly sorry these circumstances have made you feel that. But you're actually a tiny bit better off than you were yesterday. Really, only the false hope has been eliminated (which is a good thing, even though it doesn't feel that way just now), and you now know you have the option of getting your deposit back (which is a pretty big deal, since that was not at all a given yesterday). So now you're free to make a more informed decision: wait, OB, or a new contractor search. Based on what you've been living with up until now, maybe that's really not as bad as it sounds.

You're also now free to contact other contractors, without really losing anything or ticking off your contractor. You could tell your guy you're going to think about it. Then make some calls. Research OB. See if you can get any other bids, etc. If that get's back to your contractor, he can't really take that the wrong way, as he might have otherwise.

So yes, you now know for certain you're not going to get to swim in 2022. But you've probably always known that deep down, and now you can stop hoping otherwise and make some real plans. Once you get over this shock, and are able to put the past behind you, you can use this turn of events to your advantage.
I knew I was in for a long one when I tagged you! Not really expecting that I could recover the additional costs, but was just throwing it out there.

I do have bids (2) from 2 years ago, but the only one I would pick is done building pools. He told me if he was, it'd be about $30K higher than what he gave me in 2020. So I don't think I can go that route to prove damages. Also, as you mentioned loss of use, I pay $250 a year to use the city pool, so not much to gain there.

As you said, I'm trying to put the past behind me and find the fastest way to get a pool (with the smallest amount of financial damage).
 
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+1. He's still offering to build your pool. His costs have gone up as well. If he is transferring them to you, then it's an even easier decision to pay someone else more. If you chose to fire him, then those added costs are on you and not recoverable in court. (IMO)
I really don't know if he's offering to build my pool. I think he's just offering to have me wait indefinitely because he went from 2 weeks ago telling me with his new crew he'd start in a few weeks to now today saying he has no idea what he can start. I'm not that worried about recovering "damages," it'll be a longshot in any scenario.
 
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