- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks @Newdude ... and yes, that would've been the call you didn't want to make 
IG Vinyl Build: It's Happening!
- Thread starter TKpoolOH
- Start date
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
A bigger update to come, but quick question that I'm surprised hasn't been a more definitive answer to on here.
What is the order of quality between plastic, Stainless Steel, and Bronze anchors for ladders/rails/game systems/umbrellas/etc.?
My PB just told me not to use Bronze because the salt will destroy it. Seems bogus to me. Thoughts folks?
What is the order of quality between plastic, Stainless Steel, and Bronze anchors for ladders/rails/game systems/umbrellas/etc.?
My PB just told me not to use Bronze because the salt will destroy it. Seems bogus to me. Thoughts folks?
Good question! I don't have an answer but am interested to hear others. We went with bronze for the ladder anchors. It feels more durable to me than the polymer. It's also buried in concrete and won't be submersed in water so I can't imagine the salt having that much of an effect.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,480
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Bronze is an alloy of tin and copper, neither of which salt corrodes.
What you need to watch out for is mixing dissimilar metals that can create galvanic corrosion. Stainless steel screws holding a bronze anchor to an aluminum frame creates a galvanic cell which will corrode.
Be very careful about mixing metal attachments in a pool. That is where the problems are created.
Stating the obvious, plastic is not affected by pool water.
Anchors and screws should be of the same metal as the ladder/rails/umbrellas/ etc. The problems are caused when a screw goes missing or the type of metal is not known and the wrong substitution is made.
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
So stainless ladder and stainless screw with bronze anchor is a “no-no”? Never seen bronze ladders so it doesn’t seem like they should even make bronze anchors? I knew they wouldn’t corrode, but didn’t know about the galvanic cell. Great insight, thanks!
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,664
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Anything metal near or in the pool needs to be attached to the bond wire. Personally, I wouldn't trust a PB or an inspector on that. I'd want to see if for myself. Have the PB or the electrician show you all the bond wire connection points before they install any decking.
www.troublefreepool.com
Electrical Bonding - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
...so I changed the name of my thread to "Getting Farther Away" because honestly that's what it feels like even though I'm almost 2 years into this build (can you call it a build if nothing gets built?). Anyhow, absolutely zero response from PB regarding the mess of an equipment/parts list that his office manager sent me at beginning of May. 800 emails and text messages later with no response, I stopped into the office at the beginning of the day and was able to catch him and his partner. I've told him exactly what I've been doing/buying because of this list and the expected dig on June 23rd and he says not a chance. He says July maybe, promises I'll be swimming when it's warm still . I wouldn't trust this PB with anything. I tell him the things I've been ordering because his list is so horrible, he tells me to cancel any orders and not order anything more, he's got everything I need. Like heck I would ever trust him.
Like I've gone through before, there hasn't been a contract breach yet to really justify a demand letter. I do want to send him a certified letter laying out my expectations for the equipment/contract and my expected dig date, but not threatening any specific action, just evaluate at that time. I want to include the original contract, all the written changes I've made with the PB, my site plans and equipment pad plans that he's never responded to and have him initial with his agreement or respond with his expectations/changes. Does that seem appropriate at this point?
I honestly don't think even being the angry customer that curses and yells at him would do any good. Being the good customer who just persistently and nicely contacts him has gotten me nothing. BTW, I asked him point blank if he's only built 6 pools since I signed my contract (he told me I was #7) and he said yes, flat out, even though I know for a fact from him and his office manager telling me previously he's built at least 13. Like I said previously, I'm going to screw the moderator rules on here and eviscerate this PB when I'm done. Thanks for everyone's input!
. I wouldn't trust this PB with anything. I tell him the things I've been ordering because his list is so horrible, he tells me to cancel any orders and not order anything more, he's got everything I need. Like heck I would ever trust him.Like I've gone through before, there hasn't been a contract breach yet to really justify a demand letter. I do want to send him a certified letter laying out my expectations for the equipment/contract and my expected dig date, but not threatening any specific action, just evaluate at that time. I want to include the original contract, all the written changes I've made with the PB, my site plans and equipment pad plans that he's never responded to and have him initial with his agreement or respond with his expectations/changes. Does that seem appropriate at this point?
I honestly don't think even being the angry customer that curses and yells at him would do any good. Being the good customer who just persistently and nicely contacts him has gotten me nothing. BTW, I asked him point blank if he's only built 6 pools since I signed my contract (he told me I was #7) and he said yes, flat out, even though I know for a fact from him and his office manager telling me previously he's built at least 13. Like I said previously, I'm going to screw the moderator rules on here and eviscerate this PB when I'm done. Thanks for everyone's input!
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,664
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Sure, presenting everything to him in writing and asking that it be acknowledged seems prudent (however possible).
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Thanks for the confirmation. Just want to cover my bases for when we do get to the demand letter/lawsuit stage. I pray every day it doesn't get to that point.
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Here's a very rough draft of what I intend to send, thoughts? Am I dooming my pool with this? I wish I could trust this PB would do what he says, but the last 20 months have shown me I can't. Possibly the last thing I want though is for him to say "Screw you, I don't need this," return my deposit, and leave me with nothing.
Dear Mr. B,
On October 2020, we mutually signed into a contract (see attached contract specifications and agreement) for your company to dig/build a swimming pool as per the contract at address. You informed me via e-mail (see attached e-mail) and in person at your office on October 2020 when we signed the contract this project was to be your 7th build in 2021. To date in 2022, no work has been performed at address based on this contract. I am fully aware of the challenges the pool industry is currently facing as well as the labor shortages and it’s effect on Company Name. Even so, the status of this project is unacceptable and needs to proceed expediently.
To date, you have not completed/paid for the building permit with the city of blank nor submitted/paid for your contractor’s license with the city of blank. This project cannot be completed until you do so. Since you have failed to provide me with the final permit submission in addition to being unresponsive to my questions via e-mail and text messages (including but not limited to e-mails on date, date, date and texts on date, date, date), please see the attached site plan drawing as well as equipment paid drawing that I have provided you with on multiple occasions. Until my in person visit at your office on June 20, 2022, the last real response I received from you was a text on October 2021 stating "I am still planning to dig your pool this year." If that was an honest answer, it's disconcerting that you have yet to start this project at this date in 2022.
Below is a list of changes to the contract that we have agreed to both in writing via e-mail on January 2021 and in person at address on March 31, 2021.
I respectfully request that you begin the build/dig as per our contract and this letter no later than July 18, 2022. If you are not able to meet this deadline, I request a written response no later than 5 business days of receipt of this letter. Please indicate your acceptance of these terms and attachments by initialing and dating the bottom right corner of each page, as I have done, and returning a copy to me.
I thank you for your expediency and look forward to properly and efficiently getting this pool build completed.
Respectfully,
Dear Mr. B,
On October 2020, we mutually signed into a contract (see attached contract specifications and agreement) for your company to dig/build a swimming pool as per the contract at address. You informed me via e-mail (see attached e-mail) and in person at your office on October 2020 when we signed the contract this project was to be your 7th build in 2021. To date in 2022, no work has been performed at address based on this contract. I am fully aware of the challenges the pool industry is currently facing as well as the labor shortages and it’s effect on Company Name. Even so, the status of this project is unacceptable and needs to proceed expediently.
To date, you have not completed/paid for the building permit with the city of blank nor submitted/paid for your contractor’s license with the city of blank. This project cannot be completed until you do so. Since you have failed to provide me with the final permit submission in addition to being unresponsive to my questions via e-mail and text messages (including but not limited to e-mails on date, date, date and texts on date, date, date), please see the attached site plan drawing as well as equipment paid drawing that I have provided you with on multiple occasions. Until my in person visit at your office on June 20, 2022, the last real response I received from you was a text on October 2021 stating "I am still planning to dig your pool this year." If that was an honest answer, it's disconcerting that you have yet to start this project at this date in 2022.
Below is a list of changes to the contract that we have agreed to both in writing via e-mail on January 2021 and in person at address on March 31, 2021.
- A
- B
- C
- D
I respectfully request that you begin the build/dig as per our contract and this letter no later than July 18, 2022. If you are not able to meet this deadline, I request a written response no later than 5 business days of receipt of this letter. Please indicate your acceptance of these terms and attachments by initialing and dating the bottom right corner of each page, as I have done, and returning a copy to me.
I thank you for your expediency and look forward to properly and efficiently getting this pool build completed.
Respectfully,
Last edited:
Dear PB
i hope this letter finds you 'having relations' alone...............
*only change I'd make.
i hope this letter finds you 'having relations' alone...............
*only change I'd make.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,664
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Are you prepared to receive your deposit back and start over with a different contractor? Just be sure you are.
He's "holding you in reserve," like money in the bank. He's fairly confident you'll wait as long as he needs, and probably doesn't much care if you don't. If he's got other jobs lined up, he may just cut and run. That's worst case. Just be prepared for it.
Other than that, there's nothing a reasonable man should find objectionable. You've just stated facts and expectations, void of emotional statements. Which is as it should be. I doubt he'll be ready to start on July 18, which means you might be backing him into a corner. He'll either ignore the letter, negotiate his way out of committing to that date, or bolt. Frankly, he's been so unprofessional that I'm not sure which I'd be hoping for if I was in your shoes. The problem is, as you must know, there's no guarantee that the next guy will be any better, and that's assuming you can even find one. Sorry, just feelin' your frustration.
An alternative, instead of setting the deadline yourself, would be to demand he set one, with the same 5-day deadline to do so. Then if he does, you can decide to accept it or not. But it leaves the ball in his court, rather than giving him the rationale he would need (in his own mind) to cancel your contract. It's a subtle difference that probably won't matter in the end.
PS. If I was proofing:
On October 2020, wemutually signed entered into a contract (see attached contract specifications and agreement) for your company to dig/build a swimming pool...
He's "holding you in reserve," like money in the bank. He's fairly confident you'll wait as long as he needs, and probably doesn't much care if you don't. If he's got other jobs lined up, he may just cut and run. That's worst case. Just be prepared for it.
Other than that, there's nothing a reasonable man should find objectionable. You've just stated facts and expectations, void of emotional statements. Which is as it should be. I doubt he'll be ready to start on July 18, which means you might be backing him into a corner. He'll either ignore the letter, negotiate his way out of committing to that date, or bolt. Frankly, he's been so unprofessional that I'm not sure which I'd be hoping for if I was in your shoes. The problem is, as you must know, there's no guarantee that the next guy will be any better, and that's assuming you can even find one. Sorry, just feelin' your frustration.
An alternative, instead of setting the deadline yourself, would be to demand he set one, with the same 5-day deadline to do so. Then if he does, you can decide to accept it or not. But it leaves the ball in his court, rather than giving him the rationale he would need (in his own mind) to cancel your contract. It's a subtle difference that probably won't matter in the end.
PS. If I was proofing:
On October 2020, we
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
No, I'm not sure I'm prepared to start over. But I'd rather cross that bridge now than in 2023 if this PB never does anything.
Yeah, the other PB I should've gone with has gotten out of the building business this year, only services now. One of life's great regrets on my end.
I like this alternative, may save me from having to think about your 1st comment too much! However, I asked him in person for a date yesterday, and he said I can't give you one. He said he's got one more pool to build before mine (picture me fawning shock, heard that one before). The other thing is, it's not just my pool. It's my neighbors too who I referred him to. So this is like a $150K project for him,
. I know in Cali that just gets you a 4 foot deep 10x12, but there ain't that much of this kind of money to be had in Cleveland!Come on Dirk, I told you it was a very rough draft, but thanks for the proof
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,664
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Hmm. How is your neighbor feeling about all this? Could you leverage that 150 somehow? Like as a united front you both go to the PB and tell him flat out: start by X date or we both walk.
Of course starting and finishing are two different things. If he starts both jobs, there's nothing keeping him from stretching both jobs out indefinitely. Ideally, a contract should have a start date, a finish date, and a performance clause (one that stipulates a dollar penalty for every day past the finish date). I suppose it's too late for any of those, but with the threat of losing $150,000, maybe you have more juice than you think. Theoretically, you both could wield that 150 as a club to get him to renegotiate the contract to include a finish date and a performance clause. That's probably a wild fantasy, but as you say, 150 is nothing to sneeze at..
's Advocate
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
PB ignores my neighbor too. My neighbor has basically always defaulted to me for providing updates or what he needs to be doing.
- Jul 8, 2013
- 342
- Pool Size
- 17280
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- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite Pro (T-15)
Since the prices have gone up so much since you signed maybe he feels like he is not making or even losing money on your install. did he ask you for more money ?
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
He has not asked for more money. I have told him I have his money set aside waiting for him and I have added bonuses to it for him and his crew. I have also offered at least twice over the last 2 years to pay more in advance to ensure he can acquire the equipment and he has always said it's not necessary. I have already dropped off candy and other goods to his crew at his office. Last year I gave his crew $100 gift card to Chipotle for lunch. I sent him $200 in gift cards for Christmas thanking Tiffany, his office manager, for her kindness and help. I have no idea what more I can possibly do for this ******* PB.
- Jul 8, 2013
- 342
- Pool Size
- 17280
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- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite Pro (T-15)
you are to nice. i didn't do anything. signed Aug 2020 , dig started jan 20th 2021 (delay was permit and waiting for steel). everything done by April and i thought that was long wait. i am really sorry you going through this. Hopefully things will work out.
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Moment of truth, certified letter is in the mail. I think it probably says everything anybody would ever need to know about this PB that I am this nervous about sending a letter asking a PB I contracted with 2 years ago to give me a date to build my pool. 
- Jul 18, 2019
- 616
- Pool Size
- 33780
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
**** Can’t believe I just realized I didn’t include the dig sheet with my letter. Not a huge deal, but I wanted to cover every possible avenue for PB to screw me over again. Oh well, life moves on I guess.