If I'm going to convert in the spring, would it be best to stop adding anymore CDX? Or doesn't it really make much difference by next year?

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anthonypool89

anthonypool89

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Aug 26, 2016
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Berks County, PA
Just wondering. I read through a good many of the conversion threads going back many years and a salient point that stands out is the process being all that much harder if CDX has been used. With the water only being in the pool for 6 years, I'm still hesitant to drain. Let me know any thoughts on stopping CDX for these last few weeks before closing.

Also - given how much baqua goo is generated during the process, etc. is it an issue with not being able to vacuum to waste (being that I can't). Some conversion threads refer to vacuuming large amounts of debris to waste. This is just not an option with my filter.

Thanks....
 
I'm pretty sure the whole point of waiting over the winter was for some of the chemicals to break down and also get dilluted with the 3ft of rainwater we get most years in the off season. I dont see a few more weeks being a problem seeing how it will have months to dissipate/ break down/ whatever happens to Baqua. I'd be more worried about upsetting the pool gods now that it's finally working well for you. Keep doing what you are doing !!
 
Given how much CDX you’ve added over and above what is normally used, you are either going to need to drain a good amount of water or you will need to use winter snow melt and spring rains to heavily displace and dilute water. The main problem with CDX is the addition of bromine to the water which causes the excess chlorine demand seen in lengthy conversion processes. Bromine stays in the water and is only reduced through dilution (freshwater replacing pool water). There is no chemical method for removing it. If you have reverse osmosis services available in your area, there’s a possibility that can help but I don’t know of anyone who has used that for Baquacil removal.

If you stop the Baquacil soon and dilute a lot with winter snow and rain, the amount of sanitizer in the water should be minimal. Therefore the amount of “goop” should be less. People will typically run a filter in recirculate mode when the chlorine and Baquacil are reacting and then manually scoop the solids off the surface and let the settling solids fall. Without a vacuum to waste function you are going to need the filter to handle the solids which will likely require very frequent (Read: Daily) cleanings. It should get less frequent over time. DE filters are nice when water is balanced and clear but troublesome when there are issues with lots of debris
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Without a vacuum to waste function you are going to need the filter to handle the solids which will likely require very frequent (Read: Daily) cleanings.
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Matt, I really didn't need to hear that after what I've gone through last month 😟 My aching back... (literally)

How about if I'd do an extended version of what I usually do with any spring opening - that of not putting any grids in until most of the muck that accumulates on the bottom during the off-season is vacuumed up? All I do is vacuum and keep emptying out the pump strainer. Once I have most of that - usually 3-4 times with the vacuum - only then do I typically add the grids and DE. Big difference next year would be that I'd be adding chlorine instead of baqua products.

Could that work to help with removing the baqua goo (and whatever else) along with netting out floating particles? Then put in the grids once a decent FC level is attained and the water starts to clear? Or without adequate filtration, i.e. the grids and a charge of DE, would it be ineffective? With the grids and DE right from the start (or at least after most of the (usual) stuff is clear from the bottom) I'd probably be backwashing every few hours or less. Certainly vacuuming to waste is probably the best way. Some here may recall I discussed this in one of my threads along the way - that of having a local pool tech - who is very good - come over and revise the plumbing so as to be able to vacuum to waste in the absence of a valve on the filter tank that provides for it. I never heard much back from him - actually waiting for him to come over with a new pump motor (another issue this summer!). Not sure how much longer it's going to go.
 
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OK anthony, Thats It!!!! Im taking a plane and doing a Hostile TakeOver(intervention) however you want to call it! I will drain your pool completely and give it back to you TFP Sparkalicious Waters. :hammer: No matter what! So help you God!:ROFLMAO:
 
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OK guys....so how about the plan? Can this thing work as I described it (with no vacuum to waste)? Or do I blow out what's left of my lumbar vertebrae ripping down the filter tank every 25 minutes for a solid week and half before being able to hold FC 15? Might actually be able to make it to the pool (with a cane) to dip my toes in the water a few times a day....OR get so p....off during the whole process that I wind up taking an axe to the filter tank ala Jack Nicholson in The Shining?
 

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JoyfulNoise said:
Given how much CDX you’ve added over and above what is normally used
Click to expand...

Actually, I've been adding way less than what it usually calls for. I did add the larger than usual treatment last month as part of the Line clean regimen, but since then have added very little for fear of recreating the toxic mix. My water may not be totally mold free, but, man, has it ever felt good to swim again without having to hold my breath between laps. I'm easily pleased.....
 
Cant remember if its a cartridge or sand filter. If cartridge you are setting yourself up for failure. If sand, its quite inexpensive to change it for new when done with the conversion. If a no drain is really mandating your thought process, then invest on a sand filter with MPV so you can backwash. When conversion is done then you can change sand for new. Your back will thank you later on.
 
I don’t know what model filter you have but it would seem to me that having a multiport valve with the ability to recirculate or vacuum to waste would be useful where you are. If you have a pool guy willing to do the plumbing work, then see what he would charge for the add on. It’s not like it’s a waste of money as you’d likely use the features now and then. Your current filter/plumbing configuration limits what you can do so it’s a small investment for greater flexibility.

The CDX at any rate of use is a poison to pools. It contains bromine and bromine causes a lot of chlorine demand in an outdoor pool. There’s a reason why no one in their right mind runs an outdoor bromine pool and it’s because it’s a nightmare to keep stable. Your pool is now a mix of bromine and Baquacil and so adding chlorine to it will be a huge headache if the bromine isn’t taken care of. You are going to need to figure out how best to exchange as much water as possible between now and whenever you decide to add that first gallon of chlorine. The more fresh water you can get into the pool, the better off you will be. That, above all else, is where you need to focus attention.
 
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Matt,

I ran baqua for many years before using CDX. It was part of the Baquacil system (and, of course, recommended by the pool store) but I didn't get involved with it until 6 years ago. The purported advantage of it is that it helps to maintain the oxidizer level. Whether or not true I have no idea. Not sure I really ever noticed all that much difference to be honest once I got a test kit for oxidizer and biguanide levels. So would it be reasonably accurate to say that CDX is to baqua what CYA is to chlorine- at least relative to intended function?

In going back through my earlier threads, I came across this by chem geek from '14: "CDX contains primarily DMH (5,5-dimethylhydantoin) which is the same chemical used in bromine tabs but without the bromine and chlorine attached to it. In some sense it's like CYA is to chlorine except that the bromine isn't as strongly bound to it. What the CDX mostly does is allow for a lower addition of hydrogen peroxide oxidizer, possibly by stabilizing it to slow it's breakdown/degradation especially in sunlight."

So, based on this, it sort of suggests what I was implying in my question above. So he seems to be saying that bromine is not really a part of the composition. But, either way, as you and others have indicated, the presence of it is counterproductive to conversion so, given what I've been reading in the conversion threads, it does seem reasonable to do at least a partial drain from the standpoint of making the conversion go quicker and with far less work. Throw in not having a vacuum to waste option yet and it sounds like I'd be in for one of the more difficult and frustrating conversions efforts.
 
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Anthony, you can add a port in 20 minutes with little to no fuss and be good to go... please attach a picture of your pool pad, is there someplace with 8 inches of straight pipe after your pump?

48 dollars and your in business :)

Amazon.com : Jandy 4715 3-Port 1-1/2 to 2-Inch Positive Seal NeverLube Valve : Swimming Pool Filter Valves : Garden & Outdoor

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You cut out a 3 inch or so piece of pipe and install this in the middle of the 2 and you now have a waste option...
After you install this you get a 2 inch to 1.5 inch reducer I think to connect this hose (cant remember exactly as it was 5 years ago) Mine is still working....

Apache 98138045 2" x 50' Blue PVC Lay-Flat Discharge Hose with Aluminum Pin Lug Fittings: Air Tool Hoses: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Apache 98138045 2" x 50' Blue PVC Lay-Flat Discharge Hose with Aluminum Pin Lug Fittings: Air Tool Hoses: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
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I can add pictures when I get home..
 
Stop adding CDX at this point and don’t add ANY Baqua chemicals at closing. Very early next Spring open the pool and just let as much rain/snow dilute the water. I suspect the chemicals will mostly be gone by then depending what sort of a winter we have.

As for the filter,
Keep in mind circulation during the conversion is WAY more important that filtration. You’ve mentioned in the past you’ve got the ability to run with no grids correct?
 
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