IC60 & IntelliPH no longer working (5 months old) - Input?

[tomas21]

New pool built late last year and being using the IC60 and IntelliPH wired in series for a month .... noticed today while testing FC we were dropped below 3..

• Went to check out IC60 cell... no lights on... checked out IntelliPH and screen is blank
• Checked Breaker and not tripped
• Turned relay off and back on.. heard it click but no activity on intelliph screen

Looking for input to diag as I comb through the forum to see if anyone else has experienced this where IntelliPH wired in series to IC60... stops working all of the sudden

 

[ajw22]

@Dirk can help you find the burnt connections on your board.

Pentair Intelliph - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Pentair IntelliPh Circuit?wiring supply issues

This will be the 3rd time over approx 4 years that the connector from the power supply to the IntelliPh circuit board overheats and melts. I have had this occur not only on original unit but replacement (complete new unit). I have also replaced 1 control unit separately. The overheated pin in...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

21,

I'd unplug the cell from the ipH and plug it into the bottom of your EasyTouch (if you have one) or the Power Center.

That should let the cell work.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

New pool built late last year and being using the IC60 and IntelliPH wired in series for a month .... noticed today while testing FC we were dropped below 3..

• Went to check out IC60 cell... no lights on... checked out IntelliPH and screen is blank
• Checked Breaker and not tripped
• Turned relay off and back on.. heard it click but no activity on intelliph screen

Looking for input to diag as I comb through the forum to see if anyone else has experienced this where IntelliPH wired in series to IC60... stops working all of the sudden

We know what this probably is. It's a known issue (by us and Pentair).

If your IntelliChlor (IC) is less than 2 years old, and your IntellipH (IpH) is less than one year old, then they are probably both under warranty. Which means Pentair would normally send out a local authorized Pentair repair specialist and fix the problem. But here's the rub. The problem is likely that the IC60 is drawing too much current through the IpH, and has burned out a connector inside the IpH. There is another possibility, but we'll come back to that one. The problem is, as I mentioned, Pentair is aware of the issue, and instead of fixing it, they have declared that you shouldn't use an IC60 and an IpH together. Which means if you call for a warranty repair, it's possible Pentair will replace your IC60 with an IC40. That would leave you with two more problems. An IC40 is too small for your pool, and the problem that you have now also happens with an IC40 (it happened to mine). But Pentair, as far as I know, has not yet declared the IC40 and IpH a no-no. So...

You can try Pentair, and maybe they'll give you a new IpH. Or maybe they won't based on your IC60. Or maybe they'll give you a new IpH and swap out your IC60 for an IC40. Or possibly some other "solution."

OR

I can walk you through the troubleshooting, and teach you how to fix the problem, but it will likely void your warranty on the IpH. Since the mod is to the IpH, it shouldn't void your warranty on the IC60. As far as we know, the mod works for both IC40 and IC60, but we have more data on the IC40, that the fix is working for the IC40/IpH combo.

@Jimrahbe beat me to it while I was typing. Follow his instructions about how to restore at least your IC60 operation until you decide what you want to do with the IpH. If the IC doesn't work after bypassing the IpH, then it might be the other problem I mentioned. We'll cross that bridge after you try the bypass...

 

[tomas21]

Thanks.. Should I power down the entire IC to perform this change from under the intelliph to the bottom of the IC?

 

[Dirk]

YES! Always turn off all the circuit breakers to your pad before you rewire or unplug/plug-in anything. Two of the wires running through those cables connect to the comm ports that are common to most of your gear. That comm buss is sensitive, so you don't want to mess with it while it is powered up.

 

[tomas21]

Update...

• Setup IC into service mode
• Turned off main breaker that feeds the IC
• Remove iPH from IC bottom port
• Removed IC60 from iPH controller and connected to IC bottom port
• Turned main breaker back on and took out of service mode
• IC60 turned on and all lights are now green... brought up FC to 5 via liquid and set IC60 to 80% for now... probably why my FC kept diving last 2 days ... wish IC would warn you if intelliPH is "offline" or something... or IC60 for that matter

@Dirk pls let me know what is next to start to properly diag what is going on with the iPH...? Understand backlog Pentair probably has since covid, supply chain constraints, lack of available skilled labor etc but hopefully not a band-aid solution.

 

[Dirk]

@Dirk pls let me know what is next to start to properly diag what is going on with the iPH...? Understand backlog Pentair probably has since covid, supply chain constraints, lack of available skilled labor etc but hopefully not a band-aid solution.

Do you just want to try to diagnose/fix the IntellipH, without involving Pentair and a possible warranty fix?

 

[tomas21]

I’m mechanically inclined so I would like to investigate as long as I don’t risk my warranty quite yet.

 

[Dirk]

You might find all of this thread interesting, or you can skip to post #3 of it to read about how to fix the IntellipH.

Hacking IntellipH to work in cold water

As Pentair IntellipH (IpH) automatic acid dosing system owners know, the IpH depends on a Pentair IntellliChlor (IC) saltwater chlorine generator. The IpH uses the IC's power supply, and monitors its flow switch, so that it won't dispense acid if the IC is reporting low flow. Unfortunately, it...

www.troublefreepool.com

You open up the IntellipH and inspect its circuit board. The IntelliChlor is pulling too much current through the IntellipH. This manifests itself in one or both of two ways. Either the connector is burned (see the pic in post #3), and/or some of the circuit board components are burned. If it's just the connector, we've devised a better fix for that than the one I did in my #3 post. If you've also got burned components, then your board is toast, and will need to be replaced. But either way, you have to apply the mod, or it'll just happen again.

So open up the IpH and take a few pics and post 'em and we'll go from there. Just opening the IpH shouldn't void your warranty, as long as you can reassemble it without leaving a trace.

 

[tomas21]

Ok. I’ll carefully take them cover off and try to get some pics to see where the problem is. What is the 2 diy fixes and how do they prevent the issue from reoccurring ?

 

[tomas21]

@Dirk is there a Pentair reference or case id for this issue as I reach out to our SoCal Pentair rep to see if he has any insight for a permanent solution vs swap out that still may not address the root cause ?

 

[Dirk]

What is the 2 diy fixes and how do they prevent the issue from reoccurring ?

(1) Remove the four-wire connector (male and female) and solder the wires directly to the board. That's what I did. That eliminates what we think is the primary problem. We think the metal conductors inside the connector are of a poor quality, they don't seat well, and then they corrode, causing increased resistance, which increases heat at that point and the whole thing fries. That's a working theory (mostly mine).

(2) We have a very proficient electronics member that has determined that the two pairs of wires carrying the bulk of the current (two red and two black) are actually connected electrically via the traces on the circuit board. So by physically connecting the pairs together before they get to the connector (like soldering or even wire-nutting the red to the red and the black to the black), the bulk of the current will take that route, and the voltage required by the circuit board would still reach the board, but not with all that current. I haven't tried that yet, because I got my IpH working with fix #1. I don't think anyone has tried that yet, but... wait, what's that you say? You want to be first? Well that's fantastic!!

Fix #1 requires some heavy duty soldering skills. Which I have, but it's a miracle I didn't ruin my board in the process. I describe how I did it in detail in the post I referred you to.

Fix #2 is relatively easy, and could be done without even soldering, but we haven't actually tried it yet. The guy that claims that'll work is very well respected here, and I trust that he has this right. But while fix #2 is easy, it does have the caveat of being theoretical...

Once we can verify that #2 works (and we are working on that), then I would recommend that mod on day #366 of an IpH installation (the day after the warranty expires). Waiting for the over-current event to happen runs the risk of frying additional component on the board (we've seen that happen), so by being proactive, and performing the wiring mod in advance, one could solve for the problem before it happens. Theoretically!

 

[Dirk]

@Dirk is there a Pentair reference or case id for this issue as I reach out to our SoCal Pentair rep to see if he has any insight for a permanent solution vs swap out that still may not address the root cause ?

I don't know. And I've now forgotten where I heard Pentair was aware of the issue. I believe another Member who had the problem got that from Pentair during his warranty replacement process. So it's a bit hearsay, I'm afraid.

But please report anything you find out. There's a handful of us working on this issue, and we are each piecing things together as best we can. Just on our own, not with Pentair in the loop. But maybe they've been listening to our chatter, who knows.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

My guess is Pentair will void the warranty on the IpH since you were running an IC60 with it. They may warranty the first one but then make you use an IC40 with it afterwards. I believe it sounds like that happened to slickrock22 in the below thread.

I think it was this thread where Pentair was made aware of the IC40 causing the issue as well. Pentair ic40, surge board, intelliph and swg transformer.

Slickrock22 indicated that he initially used an IC60 but it had been swapped with an IC40. Post #47.

--Jeff

 

[Dirk]

My guess is Pentair will void the warranty on the IpH since you were running an IC60 with it. They may warranty the first one but then make you use an IC40 with it afterwards. I believe it sounds like that happened to slickrock22 in the below thread.

I think it was this thread where Pentair was made aware of the IC40 causing the issue as well. Pentair ic40, surge board, intelliph and swg transformer.

Slickrock22 indicated that he initially used an IC60 but it had been swapped with an IC40. Post #47.

--Jeff

Right. That was part of my warning to the OP. If he tries to fix it himself, he'll void the warranty. If he calls on the warranty, he might not end up with what he started with. I'm not sure how Pentair could skip out on honoring his IpH warranty, though. Unless they have alerted/recalled every IC60 owner, and/or every IpH owner. This is their sticky wicket. If they go public with the problem, they'll have to eat a lot of product. We've heard that some of their reps are owning this, but has Pentair actually made it official, somewhere? Anywhere? I haven't heard of that yet.

What they should do is recall the IntellipH and retrofit the fix. Tom and Filipe and I figured it out (and others), I'm sure Pentair has, too. But I haven't gotten any recall notice in the mail. Gee.

 

[tomas21]

 

[Dirk]

Yep, that's it. Now look to the white box to the right, and the little components to the right of the white box. Do you see any evidence of melting or charring there? If not, your board is probably repairable, but by fix #1, not fix #2. There is a hybrid fix of the two, that will make the repair easier. I'll look for a drawing of how to do that, somewhere here, if you decide to fix it instead of warrantying it.

There is no fix that would pass an inspection by Pentair or their rep. They'd see any of the variations.

If it's any consolation, yours is the worse connector we've seen. It's not usually so burned and melted! We've yet to see a big white blob like yours has growing out of it. Can you tell where that's from?

Can you share the output percentage setting and the hours per day of runtime? There's yet another theory we're floating that folks that run a higher percentage and/or for more hours are having more of a problem.

 

[tomas21]

So.... based on what you see what are the options?

I may reach out to Pentair support tomorrow to see what they have to say but not holding my breath? Unit has only been used for 2 months since new pool install and temps came up

1. Pentair are you aware of IntelliPH and IC60 issues?
   1. Is there there a new design or fix?
2. If not aware, what are my options?
   1. New controller replacement that could have same issue but i can mod before it happens again?

 

[Dirk]

I may have been re-editing my post as you were typing. Did I answer your question already?