I know reduced chlorine effectiveness is caused by sunlight, but is it also caused by heat? If the unit is out in the sun, but no light penetrates the unit, would the chlorine stay pretty potent? I would imagine that most folks would mount this near their pump, which is generally not enclosed.
I like my liquidator, it makes BBB super easy.
- Thread starter keithw
- Start date
Direct sunlight, specifically the ultraviolet (UV) light from the sun, breaks down chlorine very quickly. Heat (higher temperature) also breaks down chlorine faster as seen in this link. A 10F rise in temperature is roughly doubling the rate of degradation so cutting the half-life in half. If you use bleach instead of chlorinating liquid, however, the effect is lessened, but in this unit I do now know if over time the chlorine gets more or less concentrated as it gets used up since the chlorine/water layer moves as well.
chem geek said:
It seems to me that the compound the chlorine is in might be broken down by heat and light, but the chlorine will remain in some form. What is the "broken down" state of bleach?
ETA: I see that it is sodium chlorate. Also note that during manufacturing that the temperature has to be kept below 104F to prevent the chlorate from forming. Is that 104F the magic number for accelerated bleach breakdown, or is it just the point at which it becomes economically a problem during manufacturing? Is NaClO3 of any use in sanitizing a pool?
The nice thing about this design is that the chlorine is always submerged under a large layer of pool water. I would say that the container holds a total of about 10-15 gallons and you only add up to 4 gallons max of Chlorine. So the 6+ gallons of pool water keep the chlorine cool.
If the pump isn't running and it is in direct sunlight it could still get quite hot. Shading the tank might be a good idea.
does anyone have a picture of this thing? It sounds interesting, but the link provided above has no other info.
laff66 said:
Here is a thread by cruzmisl with some real world pictures
It's amazing how little you can find about this product on the net. Is there anyone else who sells it besides that one vendor?
I have a couple of questions.
I add salt to my BBB pool and it is around 1800ppm, does this create more sediment or an issue using this system? What kind of Chlorine usage should I expect if I use .5gal a day for a 24,000 gl pool with a cya of 45, using 12.5% chlorine, average pool temp 85 and outside temp getting into the 95% temp a couple of times a week? And lastly, do you guys think I could drop my CL target of 3-5ppm o 2-3 like is typical for a SWG due to CL levels at time of introduction to the system?
I add salt to my BBB pool and it is around 1800ppm, does this create more sediment or an issue using this system? What kind of Chlorine usage should I expect if I use .5gal a day for a 24,000 gl pool with a cya of 45, using 12.5% chlorine, average pool temp 85 and outside temp getting into the 95% temp a couple of times a week? And lastly, do you guys think I could drop my CL target of 3-5ppm o 2-3 like is typical for a SWG due to CL levels at time of introduction to the system?
Sodium chlorate doesn't sanitize (as opposed to chorite which does sanitize, by combining with chlorine to form chlorine dioxide). And though chlorate is one by-product of breakdown of chlorine, it is most common in concentrated chlorine contaminated with metals. The more typical breakdown product of chlorine, especially from UV, is chloride. That is the chloride in sodium chloride or salt. The 104F is way, way too hot to store chlorine. They are just talking about the short-term manufacturing process. If you look at the table at the bottom of the link in my post, even normal outdoor temperatures of 90F will break down chlorine much faster, especially if it's more concentrated.JohnT said:
The forum is having problems today which is why there are so many duplicate posts and it is impossible to start new topics.
Bleach usage should be slightly lower with the liquidator because the peak FC level will be lower so the rate of breakdown from sunlight will be lower. With bleach, you presumably add it all at once once a day. That higher level increases breakdown from sunlight. But what matters for sanitizing is the lowest daily level, so the level right after adding bleach is higher than it needs to be with a continuous feed system. Thus the continuous feed system has lower loss to sunlight.
Several of us have been wondering if a lower FC level will work with continuous bleach feed systems the way it does with a SWG. So far there is way too little experience with these systems to draw a firm conclusion.
Bleach usage should be slightly lower with the liquidator because the peak FC level will be lower so the rate of breakdown from sunlight will be lower. With bleach, you presumably add it all at once once a day. That higher level increases breakdown from sunlight. But what matters for sanitizing is the lowest daily level, so the level right after adding bleach is higher than it needs to be with a continuous feed system. Thus the continuous feed system has lower loss to sunlight.
Several of us have been wondering if a lower FC level will work with continuous bleach feed systems the way it does with a SWG. So far there is way too little experience with these systems to draw a firm conclusion.
The salt shouldn't be a problem with the liquidator. I have my pool salted to 2700PPM and haven't had any issues. I have no clue on what your CL consumption will be though.
Rangeball said:Man, you really, really want answers, don't you...
I'm trying to get my post numbers up!
I am glad that this link keeps popping up near the top. I can't sing the praises enough of the Liquidator. It has made my "pool life" so much easier.
As I wait for my pool construction to begin, I have been watching this product for some time. I have a few questions...
1. How long has this product been on the market?
2. Any updates on how the product is working for you that own it? How long have you owned it?
3. What do you do with the salts and solids at the bottom of the container?
4. How do you clean out the containers?
5. I live in Central Texas where it can get over 100 degrees. How would morning sun effect the chlorine stored in the product?
6. I am planning to build a simple cover over the equipment pad to keep direct sunlight off the equipment, should this aid in prolonging the chlorine life?
7. Being a first time owner of a pool, should I start out on the 3" tabs and then move to BBB? What tabs would you recommend?
Sorry for the questions!
Thanks in advance.
Mike
1. How long has this product been on the market?
2. Any updates on how the product is working for you that own it? How long have you owned it?
3. What do you do with the salts and solids at the bottom of the container?
4. How do you clean out the containers?
5. I live in Central Texas where it can get over 100 degrees. How would morning sun effect the chlorine stored in the product?
6. I am planning to build a simple cover over the equipment pad to keep direct sunlight off the equipment, should this aid in prolonging the chlorine life?
7. Being a first time owner of a pool, should I start out on the 3" tabs and then move to BBB? What tabs would you recommend?
Sorry for the questions!
Thanks in advance.
Mike
1. I am not sure but it is made by HAAS and they have been around for quite some time.
2. Still working great, have had mine a few months now.
3. Leave them there. Doesn't hurt anything. Based on the rate that they accumulate, I anticipate that I will clean them out and give the Liquidator a good cleaning at the end of every season.
4. Disconnect the inlet and outlet and wash it all out.
5. Sun bad. If in sun, then build box.
6. Yes, good idea.
7. Were it me, I would just just buy stabilizer (CYA) and get it straightaway up to the right CYA and start out with bleach. Cheaper and easier.
2. Still working great, have had mine a few months now.
3. Leave them there. Doesn't hurt anything. Based on the rate that they accumulate, I anticipate that I will clean them out and give the Liquidator a good cleaning at the end of every season.
4. Disconnect the inlet and outlet and wash it all out.
5. Sun bad. If in sun, then build box.
6. Yes, good idea.
7. Were it me, I would just just buy stabilizer (CYA) and get it straightaway up to the right CYA and start out with bleach. Cheaper and easier.
Thanks for taking time to answer my questions!
Another question, being that I am central Texas we do get a week or so of below freezing weather but we don't close our pools like the folks up north. We run our equipment 24hrs during freezing periods to prevent damage. How will liquidator do during cold stretches?
Keep in mind that we can have days if not a solid week of below freezing temps with some night temps down around low teens or colder. Is there enough circ in the liquidator to keep ice from forming?
Another question, being that I am central Texas we do get a week or so of below freezing weather but we don't close our pools like the folks up north. We run our equipment 24hrs during freezing periods to prevent damage. How will liquidator do during cold stretches?
Keep in mind that we can have days if not a solid week of below freezing temps with some night temps down around low teens or colder. Is there enough circ in the liquidator to keep ice from forming?