How to turn off solar heater?

[Dirk]

If you have reasonably new pump (less than 10 years) there are several options to replace the motor only with a VS motor that are very cost effective.

I think this is true, but then you'd forgo one of the nicest features of automation, being able to control and schedule various pump speeds to meet various purposes, which can all require different speeds: solar, vacuum, swg, low speed filtering, high-speed skimming, full-on spa mode, gentle spa spillway, to name some. If you go with Pentair, you need an IntelliFlo to do that.

 

[Dirk]

Dirk - I appreciate your additional info there, it makes sense to go with the Pentair automation system since it is convenient, reliable and future proof. I will have to seriously think over the choices between a cheap sorta work system (vs pump, SWG, solar, wifi timer box) and the likely 2-3x expensive Pentair ecosystem. if budget isn't tight I'd rather give you my credit card and get the whole darn Pentair things btw, do they sell bundled Pentair stuff? if go with Pentair, i will at least for now, need: VS intelliFlo pump, SWG, EasyTouch, IntelliCenter.

You'd want EasyTouch with ScreenLogic OR IntelliCenter, not both. Yes, they sell bundles that include controller, SWG and its transformer, with built-in circuit breaker panel plus a couple of actuators (typically to control pool/spa modes). The pump isn't part of a bundle, but as I mentioned, if you're going Pentair you want the IntelliFlo, not just a VS motor for your existing pump.

How's your current filter? If you buy an IntelliFlo plus filter, and then one more thing (like the controller or SWG) all on the same invoice, then everything you buy on that invoice gets a three-year warranty. That's if you have a pro install. Otherwise, as Chris mentioned, Pentair warranty poops out at 60 days.

 

[Dirk]

curious - what is the benefit of your Rebel cleaner over others, why did you take the efforts to convert to suction cleaner vs. a robot like Dolphin? is it much better than the Polaris 280?

My booster pump was failing, and I wanted to eliminate it. Plus the 280 was spraying everything in sight with its stupid tail. I really hated that vac. The Rebel was recommended by the installer of all my other Pentair gear, I didn't research it. It works at least as well as the 280 did, with none of its disadvantages, the list of which is included in what I don't like about robots.

Without ever owning one, I concede that a robot will likely clean a pool better, because it brushes the finish. Vacs don't do that. But that's the only advantage I'll concede to a robot. Off the top of my head:

- Robots are heavy and I don't want to haul one out of the pool when swimmers are in, and certainly not everyday as recommended by some of the manufacturers.

- While it's true you see the hose of a vac floating in the water, that doesn't bug me much at all, but a thick cord laying on the deck is unacceptable to me.

- I don't care how safe they are, I don't want an electrical cord running into the water.

- I don't have to haul out my vac to clean a little bag or filter every few days. My pool is relatively clean, so I can ignore my vac for the entire off season. I don't have to take it in and out, I don't have to clean it, and since I only have to clean my filter once a year, what my vac sends to it is a non-issue. I do have to clean out the pump basket, where the vac sends leaves and such, but that is a simple task, and one that doesn't get me wet. During the winter months, I don't have to do even that. It's just so low maintenance.

- Others will claim robots use less electricity, because you don't need to run the pump. This, too, is a non-issue for me. My vac cycle is part of my filter runtime, so it requires no additional electricity to run. So for my use case the opposite is true, a robot would use more electricity.

- A robot is certainly more expensive and has more things that can go wrong with it, requiring more expensive repairs (this is a presumption on my part). In five years I've spent only the initial cost on my vac, and nothing more.

For me and my pool, a suction vac is the best system. Others will find a robot is superior for them and their pool.

 

[TexasBR]

Thank you for such a detailed explanation. Much appreciated!

 

[setsailsoon]

I think this is true, but then you'd forgo one of the nicest features of automation, being able to control and schedule various pump speeds to meet various purposes, which can all require different speeds: solar, vacuum, swg, low speed filtering, high-speed skimming, full-on spa mode, gentle spa spillway, to name some. If you go with Pentair, you need an IntelliFlo to do that.

Dirk,

That's not quite correct. I used the digital inputs to accomplish these functions. For V-Green speeds are called Steps that are easily configurable. I configured mine as follows:

Step one is lowest speed and set with the internal timer to run 24 hrs per day. Digital inputs override the internal timer and when there's no digital input the motor reverts to the internal timer. All you have to do is run a signal wire to one of the 4 digital inputs that can be independently set to any speed. This triggers that speed as long as the signal exists. When solar valve is opened I use digital input powered from the solar 3-way valve signal to speed up to a higher speed. I do the same for the gas heater but take the signal from the gas valve solenoid to kick up to higher speed. There are a total of 4 digital inputs that can be configured this way. Digital input signals are very flexible, can be any signal from 9-30 volts AC or DC. You can do this with any automation system in place to control other components. For example I use the Intellicenter to control on-off of swg and make sure it can't run when the pump is off. So I can adjust run-time of swg to be less than pump run time if needed. Also use it for temp control of solar and gas heater which is all done using remote apps.

Chris

 

[Dirk]

Thanks Chris. I would have guessed you'd need to burn up to four relays to make use of that pump's preset speed settings, but it sounds like you've got a good workaround. I'm making do with four speeds myself, but if I had a better controller I could use more (the "lite" version of EasyTouch blows for several reasons).

That said, I think it was another here at TFP that compared owning a pool to owning an expensive convertible sports car. Not particularly practical, but a ton of fun when the weather's nice. Sits unused for much of the year. Nice to look at. Expensive, and expensive to maintain, but worth it. For me, owning a pool without fully automating it would be like owning a high-performance sports car without a starter motor. Takes too much effort to get to the fun...

 

[caycarem]

Cay,

I used a V-green by Century. Now there are several brands. I would be very reluctant on an old pump since you might have to replace the whole pump soon and would end up with higher total cost in the long term. My V-Green 1.65 was $400. I put it on my 1 HP 2-speed Jandy pump that was about 7 years old and it worked great. Interfaced with my system using the digital inputs and didn't have any problems using it with the Circupool swg, solar, Jandy gas heater, and my Intellicenter. Here's why I caution about putting it on an older pump though. Last week I had a pump housing crack develop at the discharge. Had to replace the part @ $155. Still a good financial decision but on an older pump like yours cost of repair parts and even potential availability could be worse than in my case.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Thanks very helpful. No idea how old my pump is but cover looks ok still. it’s a pentair pac fab hydropump 2HP 700 series with C-face (pic). Would a round flange V-green fit you think? This one ECM16CU

Century (A.O. Smith) 1.65 HP Motor, V-Green, Round Flange 56J, Variable Speed, 208-230V - Model ECM16CU - INYOPools.com

V-Green 1.65 HP Round Flange 56J Variable Speed Motor - ECM16CU

www.inyopools.com

 

[caycarem]

Here’re pump pics. Given tight space replacing motor could work better.

 

[caycarem]

Here’re pump pics

You'd want EasyTouch with ScreenLogic OR IntelliCenter, not both. Yes, they sell bundles that include controller, SWG and its transformer, with built-in circuit breaker panel plus a couple of actuators (typically to control pool/spa modes). The pump isn't part of a bundle, but as I mentioned, if you're going Pentair you want the IntelliFlo, not just a VS motor for your existing pump.

How's your current filter? If you buy an IntelliFlo plus filter, and then one more thing (like the controller or SWG) all on the same invoice, then everything you buy on that invoice gets a three-year warranty. That's if you have a pro install. Otherwise, as Chris mentioned, Pentair warranty poops out at 60 days.

ah, i meant easytouch + screenlogic not intelliCenter (too much $$$).
my filter is Pac Fab Mitra 160, around 160 sqft, 160GPM, just replaced cartridge and top cover oring, but now it's leaking a little (droplets) at the oring (cover has some small dents) after I ran solar in Spa mode with pressure 20 PSI. re-seated the oring with magic lube but still no go, not sure how to stop this leak as i can't seem to find the top cover to replace. I might have to get a new filter if can't fix.
It looks like everything Pentair cost a lot of $$$ and without warranty (self-install) so it's going to break my bank as I'd need everything and wife isn't going to be happy very about it given we just got our new place. I think I'm going to go the cheapo half-Rear automation route with VS + SWG for a few years if I can, and hold off Pentair automation.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks very helpful. No idea how old my pump is but cover looks ok still. it’s a pentair pac fab hydropump 2HP 700 series with C-face (pic). Would a round flange V-green fit you think? This one ECM16CU

Cay,

That looks like the right one to me but I'd call Inyopools and give them your pump model. They can look it up for you and make sure it's right. Your current pump is a little higher hp than the the V-Green 1.65 so you may also need to step down to a smaller impeller. Again Inyopools will be able to help. In my case it was a direct replace and I actually changed to a larger impeller after installing so I could get the most out of the pump. @JamesW may be able to help.

Looking at your pump it does look pretty old. I really like the V-Green solution for me but in your case I would look seriously at a new VS pump. Pentair makes the best VS pumps and if you can't afford that right now look for a cheaper VS pump that has an internal timer and digital input control if you go this route. If you go the motor only it does look like parts are still available for the pump at least.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[caycarem]

Thanks Chris, I also sent pics of my pump to inyopools for their feedback of new motor or entire new pump. If you think pump is old Then new pump it is!

Brian

 

[setsailsoon]

Somebody else on here knows a lot more about pumps especially Pentair pumps. @Jimrahbe can you tell how old this pump is? Looks pretty old to me.

Chris

 

[Jimrahbe]

Chris,

Sorry, but I have no idea how old that pump is...

Jim R.

 

[setsailsoon]

OK, thanks. Maybe Allen knows. @ajw22 Any idea how old this pump is? Please see post #48.

Chris

 

[ajw22]

OK, thanks. Maybe Allen knows. @ajw22 Any idea how old this pump is? Please see post #48.

Chris

Pentair acquired PacFab in 1999. So based on the PacFab label I would date the pump to 20+ years old.

 

[setsailsoon]

Thanks Allen! Cay, I think this means your pump truly is as old as it looks. If it were me I'd go for new pump.

 

[caycarem]

Thanks Allen! Cay, I think this means your pump truly is as old as it looks. If it were me I'd go for new pump.

Yeah that settled this pump issue, new pump it is. Thank you Chris and all.

 

[caycarem]

Hey Dirk and all,

I finally was able to draw the layout of my pool and current plumbing with apparently 20+ years old equipment. Attached some pics of the pool and equipment pad.
Current Priority: VS pump, SWG, basic pump/SWG/solar automation. I have extra Solartouch controller on hand with motorized solar valve.
Future: may or may not expand automation in 3-5 years. Future priority: replace filter, replace 280 with Dolphin robot, add autofill, add acid automation, add solar cover, replace 2 pool lights with assembly, replace gas heater
Budget: for now I have a budget of max $3k, but would much prefer ~$2k (happy wife happy life!)

1. With that budget, what would you suggest to buy?

2. I want to get rid of both main pump and Polaris 280 pump, use new pump for both filter and polaris 280 cleaner. How would you suggest the new plumbing to look like for the new pump and SWG? seems like very tight space plus there are copper pipes going in and out of the gas heater.

Thanks in advance and I would very much appreciate any input.

Brian

 

[Dirk]

You cannot run the 280 without a booster pump. If you want to rid yourself of the booster, you have to either go robot, or replumb the pressure line to a suction line to be able to use a suction-side vac. Or, I believe Pentair makes a pressure-side vac that doesn't require a booster pump, but I don't know how well they work.

Can you make room to expand by moving the heater over?

Regarding what to buy... I'm not your guy for that. If you're going to eventually replace everything, which seems to be in the cards, why not bite the bullet and just do it all now? It's not going to be cheaper later. You'd be able to properly replumb everything all at the same time. You'd be able to take advantage of both the Pentair bundle prices and the 3-year warranty. And you could start enjoying the convenience and functions of the automation and SWG 3-5 years sooner. What are you waiting for? (I know, I know, happy wife... How come nothing rhymes with "happy husband?!")

 

[setsailsoon]

Cay,

Before you do anything, re-design your equipment layout so you can replace the rest without a total redo of the piping. If you don't do a total reno you'll have to redo some plumbing each time but this can be minimized with some forethought. Pump is the heart of your pool and you're probably on borrowed time. I'd do that first. It'll pay for itself in less than 2 years so it's kind of free. With your electric prices your wife will see the benefit on the bill quickly and this should get you big time brownie points! The rest depends on your personal preferences. In my case we use our pool several days per week year round. We use automation and the spa a lot - most pool owners probably don't since they don't use the pool that often. It's really nice to be able to adjust the spa with the phone app and even better to get it heating up while we are on our way home from dinner or happy hour. I bought my swg before my automation so I couldn't really justify a swg bundle. Only reason not to do this is if you DIY. You need full warranty on the cell and the only way to get full warranty on it with DIY is to use an authorized installer (about 2x DIY cost) or go 3rd party like Circupool or Autopilot. All manufacturers have a small number of early cell failures in the first couple years and this is very expensive if you don't have warranty. Automation warranty is a little different. There are no comparable 3rd parties. But it's also electronics - if it works a week or two it'll most likely continue for decades. So I was OK with a 90 day warranty from Pentair or even Hayward. Jandy gives you zero warranty for DIY so they were not a choice for me. If you buy from an authorize installer any brand will work and Jandy is about as good as Hayward. In my opinion Pentair Intellicenter is the best in terms of features and future compatibility. The other two are about the same and a couple hundred $ cheaper for a given installation. Next item is heater. I'm guessing both the solar and the gas are at end of life. You'll need to replace them when they fail but I'd wait 'till that happens just to stay on budget. You can usually afford to do some repairs on both of them to delay replacement cost but it is inevitable. On the solar you can plug tubes as they start to fail and on the gas heater it's usually sensors or switches or tubes. If your tubes haven't failed yet it indicates they won't be the first item to go and that's good since they are the most expensive repair and hard to justify. But eventually both heaters will need replacement. Hopefully, you're able to put the electric bill savings in a piggy bank and use that to reduce the pain.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Chris