How to turn off solar heater?

You cannot run the 280 without a booster pump. If you want to rid yourself of the booster, you have to either go robot, or replumb the pressure line to a suction line to be able to use a suction-side vac. Or, I believe Pentair makes a pressure-side vac that doesn't require a booster pump, but I don't know how well they work.

Can you make room to expand by moving the heater over?

Regarding what to buy... I'm not your guy for that. If you're going to eventually replace everything, which seems to be in the cards, why not bite the bullet and just do it all now? It's not going to be cheaper later. You'd be able to properly replumb everything all at the same time. You'd be able to take advantage of both the Pentair bundle prices and the 3-year warranty. And you could start enjoying the convenience and functions of the automation and SWG 3-5 years sooner. What are you waiting for? (I know, I know, happy wife... How come nothing rhymes with "happy husband?!")
That sucks I didn't know 280 requires a booster pump, thanks for that info! it does a pretty good job sucking up all the palm tree debris but I also hate its tail spraying water everywhere! my pool got a lot of debris so suction cleaner might not do it, I'd probably have to go for a robot at some points.
I don't want the hassle of moving a dying gas heater.
LOL @ happy husband, that never happens! Besides we just spent a fortune remodeling the place after we got it, so pretty limited budget at this point.
 
Cay,

Before you do anything, re-design your equipment layout so you can replace the rest without a total redo of the piping. If you don't do a total reno you'll have to redo some plumbing each time but this can be minimized with some forethought. Pump is the heart of your pool and you're probably on borrowed time. I'd do that first. It'll pay for itself in less than 2 years so it's kind of free. With your electric prices your wife will see the benefit on the bill quickly and this should get you big time brownie points! The rest depends on your personal preferences. In my case we use our pool several days per week year round. We use automation and the spa a lot - most pool owners probably don't since they don't use the pool that often. It's really nice to be able to adjust the spa with the phone app and even better to get it heating up while we are on our way home from dinner or happy hour. I bought my swg before my automation so I couldn't really justify a swg bundle. Only reason not to do this is if you DIY. You need full warranty on the cell and the only way to get full warranty on it with DIY is to use an authorized installer (about 2x DIY cost) or go 3rd party like Circupool or Autopilot. All manufacturers have a small number of early cell failures in the first couple years and this is very expensive if you don't have warranty. Automation warranty is a little different. There are no comparable 3rd parties. But it's also electronics - if it works a week or two it'll most likely continue for decades. So I was OK with a 90 day warranty from Pentair or even Hayward. Jandy gives you zero warranty for DIY so they were not a choice for me. If you buy from an authorize installer any brand will work and Jandy is about as good as Hayward. In my opinion Pentair Intellicenter is the best in terms of features and future compatibility. The other two are about the same and a couple hundred $ cheaper for a given installation. Next item is heater. I'm guessing both the solar and the gas are at end of life. You'll need to replace them when they fail but I'd wait 'till that happens just to stay on budget. You can usually afford to do some repairs on both of them to delay replacement cost but it is inevitable. On the solar you can plug tubes as they start to fail and on the gas heater it's usually sensors or switches or tubes. If your tubes haven't failed yet it indicates they won't be the first item to go and that's good since they are the most expensive repair and hard to justify. But eventually both heaters will need replacement. Hopefully, you're able to put the electric bill savings in a piggy bank and use that to reduce the pain.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Chris
This makes a lot of sense, thanks Chris! Yeah VS pump will pay for itself with low electric bill, which is why I'm going for that first! Inyopools recommended this Waterway over Pentair pump due to it's 2 year warranty and 2.7 HP, but I don't know much about Waterway. seems to use V-green motor:
Waterway Power Defender 270 Variable Speed Pump 2.7 HP

however, I've been looking at some pump performance curves and it looks like nothing can beat the Intelliflo. Based on my filter pressure 9psi/13psi for solar off/solar on, I guessed the Feet of Head would be at least 35/50. So with solar on, it would be 2500RPM @40GPM for intelliFlo vs. higher RPM on the superFlo or Waterway, so the lower RPM might pay for itself with the intelliFlo.

The gas heater is on its last leg, burner tray rusted a lot I dont know if they even sell replacement tray so I dont want to move it myself. also it's next to a large window, and per pool inspection new code does not allow that any more. I think I dont have any good options on the gas heater, other than remove it out OR if professionally installed, have to switch place with the filter pad to avoid the window, redo entire plumbing which is costly. likely going to leave it there unless I redo the entire plumbing. by the way, would salt be super bad for this old rusty gas heater? I'm not sure how to inspect it to determine whether to take it out completely or try to fix it up? it seemed to still run and heat up water most of the time I tried, but I'm afraid of using it.

sounds like for SWG, warranty is more important. then, I will get a Circupool and go the relay route later when I get a new controller. IntelliCenter seems to cost a lot!

Solar heater - I've replaced 3 of 9 and plugged another one with some used panels from craigslist, seems to work ok for now (saved $2200 from solar company, for now!)

Biggest problem is how to redesign the equipment layout. I'm also worried about touching the copper pipes, i don't have a very good experience with 2" vertical copper joints, the last vertical elbow I did took 20 tries, 10 elbows, and 1 whole day :)

If I would just replace the pump in same place, where would you think I could stick a circupool SWG?
 
Pentair VS pumps are definitely better if you can swing the $. Can you show some more photo's of the discharge piping where the outlet of the heater splits to the returns on the pool and spa? There are a lot of easy ways to install on horizontal or vertical pipe. If you decide to go this way be sure to get @Jimrahbe to help you with the right model if you decide not to install automation right away.

Chris
 
I don't want the hassle of moving a dying gas heater.
That was in the context of doing everything now: gut the pad, and expand where everything will go, including the new heater you want. Sorry, I know I'm not helping regarding your budget concerns. I'm projecting what I would do instead of what you need to do...

I saw an EasyTouch bundle (ET with circuit breaker box + IntelliChlor 60 and transformer + 2 actuators) for just over $2K, and an IntelliFlo for around $1000. That's DIY prices with a 60-day warranty, if you're willing to roll those dice. If you apply Chris' "free pump" math, that keeps you well under your $3K budget cap (once the new pump starts saving you money). Keep the existing filter, heater and vac alive while you save for their replacements. Then ask for ScreenLogic for Christmas. You can save a couple bills by going with the IC40 bundle. Your size pool puts you right on the cusp of which IC size is the better choice.

That scheme will get you all of the automation goodness, and you'd be able to eliminate the crusty timer box, the old solar controller and your old pump. One of the included actuators should bolt to your existing pool/spa three-way valve in front of the pump (you might have to confirm that first). The other one will need to go onto a new three-way valve (they're about $50), which you'll install where that weird three-way is on your return pipes. There's also plenty of room for the SWG. If the new pump can squeeze in to the old pump's spot, then that would minimize the re-plumbing for now, until you install the new filter and heater, when you can revamp all the plumbing at once.

So depending on how you calculate the energy savings from the pump, that keeps you well within your $2K-3K budget. Some will tell you that for x amount more you'll be happier with the IntelliCenter, which has arguably better future proofing, but it still has a few bugs and the ET is very tried and true (it aught'a be for how long it's been around) and can do almost everything the IntelliCenter can.

Most importantly, we both get most of what we want: Happy Dirk is a Perk! 😄
 
Last edited:
I'm revisiting. I see now I have mistaken what is copper for PVC (the whole return side after the heater). It is within that piping that the SWG and new three-way with actuator would go, so my last post would still be valid, but you'll have to do some conversion from copper to PVC, and then back to copper, in order to plumb in a three-way + actuator and the SWG...
 
If you don't go with Intellicenter the Easy Touch/Screen Logic option is a good option. There are many, many installs of this system and we have experts that can advise with details on this system. Like most Pentair products it seems to just work forever and it is a few hundred $ cheaper.

I saw the metal pipe on your discharge and that's why I asked for better photos. You'll probably be able to make a horizontal loop with PVC.

If you're looking to go with a DIY install and getting the advantage of an automation bundle that includes swg to save some cost and go with the limited warranty that's a close call to me. Just depends on your risk tolerance. You do also get a little more control since you can set % power and run time with automation of the same brand. I don't see this as a big benefit since mine hasn't changed in 2 years and I would not expect to change it more often than each year. I don't even adjust run time more than once per year. I just let the FC cycle up and down by a couple ppm above target as FC demand changes with weather, CYA fluctuations, and pool load. This time of year the sun starts to become less intense and FC has increased to 10 ppm so I'll reduce run time to about 6 hrs and it will drop down to just above target. If you try to micro manage FC level with swg it will drive you nuts.

A side note about swg is to consider addition of borates. I've had pH control problems since way before I converted to salt. I added borates to help control this and it helped a LOT. Some seem to think this also keeps the swg cell from having build up of deposits. I've been running for swg 2 years and had no evidence of deposits in the cell. The cell blasts out a heavy cloud of micro bubbles and seems to be about the same as day 1 plus no change in run time to keep FC minimums. Don't know if it's to do with borates or just good control of my water balance. Now I only have to add acid about twice per month though. So pool care for me is mostly just test FC and pH weekly to confirm I don't need to do anything. So simple with swg it's amazing.

Chris
 
Pentair VS pumps are definitely better if you can swing the $. Can you show some more photo's of the discharge piping where the outlet of the heater splits to the returns on the pool and spa? There are a lot of easy ways to install on horizontal or vertical pipe. If you decide to go this way be sure to get @Jimrahbe to help you with the right model if you decide not to install automation right away.

Chris
Here’ a better photo of the copper returning line. From the Heater out to elbow horizontal pipe is 20”. Could this be enough space for the SWG? This section (and the copper running from solar valve to the heater) is only 1.5” not 2”, not sure if it matters.
 

Attachments

  • 8E4B8BFA-6AF2-42CB-BF87-4BF8FFF831D9.jpeg
    8E4B8BFA-6AF2-42CB-BF87-4BF8FFF831D9.jpeg
    421.3 KB · Views: 7
Dirk/Chris,
Change of plan...I just got a 2-year old Superflo VS 342001 1.5HP for cheap $120, so will try to make use of it. No intelliFlo...I will try DYI route unless can find a reasonable rate Pro. Can I use relay and still go for easytouch/screenlogic/circupool (or IC) as you suggested?
 
I'm revisiting. I see now I have mistaken what is copper for PVC (the whole return side after the heater). It is within that piping that the SWG and new three-way with actuator would go, so my last post would still be valid, but you'll have to do some conversion from copper to PVC, and then back to copper, in order to plumb in a three-way + actuator and the SWG...
what's the 3 way actuator valve for, to bypass the SWG? i have extra valve with my solartouch.
also have to research how to plumb copper to pvc to copper...unions?
 
Dirk/Chris,
Change of plan...I just got a 2-year old Superflo VS 342001 1.5HP for cheap $120, so will try to make use of it. No intelliFlo...I will try DYI route unless can find a reasonable rate Pro. Can I use relay and still go for easytouch/screenlogic/circupool (or IC) as you suggested?
If you get an EasyTouch, you'll be able to control pump on-off and CircuPool on-off. You won't get full variable control of the pump, and no control of the SWG though ScreenLogic, except for basic on-off scheduling. Some Pentair pumps can be set up with four preset speeds, which you can initiate with ScreenLogic/ET, but I'm not sure about the Superflo. Others here will know. You won't be able to adjust the RPMs of the four speeds with ScreenLogic, only which preset speed to use. The adjustment of the RPMs happens with the pump interface. Each speed requires one relay of the ET, so keep that in mind, as some ET models only have a total of four relays. There are other ways to trigger the presets, I just learned that the other day, but I don't know how to get that working. I think I read that in this thread.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
what's the 3 way actuator valve for, to bypass the SWG? i have extra valve with my solartouch.
also have to research how to plumb copper to pvc to copper...unions?
No, not to bypass the SWG. If you get an ET, then you'd want two three-ways with actuators, one on the suction side, the other not the return side. Then you'd be able to use the ET to automate pool/spa functions: pool only mode, spa only mode and spillway mode. As I mentioned, I think a standard actuator will fit on the existing three-way you have in front of the pump. That'd be easy enough to test if you already have an extra actuator. To get the return actuator happening, you'll need to cut out that copper three-way and plump in a PVC three-way, which you would do at the same time you convert the copper to PVC for the SWG.

I'm not sure of the best way to convert. I can think of two: sweat a female-threaded copper fitting on to the copper, then screw in a male PVC thread-to-slip fitting into that, using teflon tape. Ideally that fitting would also convert the 1.5" PVC threaded side to 2" slip on the other side. And of course its counterparts on the other two legs of the return manifold (so three total). You want to thread male PVC into female metal, not the other way around. The alternative, I suppose, would be to use a 1-1/2" Shark-bite push fitting to go from the copper to PVC, then up the PVC to 2" using a coupler. That would be very easy, and expensive, because of the 1-1/2" size (~$25 x 3 = $75). But personally I don't trust shark-bite plumbing for anything mission-critical or inside a wall. I'm in the minority there.
 
Last edited:
Three of these (though one of the two pictures is showing the wrong part on this page):


and three of these:


Plus teflon tape, sweating gear (torch and solder and flux), plus 2" PVC, various elbows, glue, etc.

Before you connect everything up, plan it out so that you have a generous chunk of PVC pipe before each copper conversion. That way, if the copper connection leaks, there will be room to cut out the PVC and unscrew the threaded PVC, so you can go again with the sweating. Then put it back together with a PVC coupler when done. You won't be able to reheat the copper with the PVC threaded in. I'm projecting because I suck at sweating copper, so I'm fairly certain I'd need to do at least one of the joints twice.

Edit: ouch, that 1-1/2" copper fitting is also about $25. Maybe someone else here can offer a better/cheaper way to convert the copper to PVC...
 
Here’ a better photo of the copper returning line. From the Heater out to elbow horizontal pipe is 20”. Could this be enough space for the SWG? This section (and the copper running from solar valve to the heater) is only 1.5” not 2”, not sure if it matters.
Looks to me you have room straight out of the heater before the bend or after the bend prior to the valve that I presume will switch from pool returns to spa return. Best to measure though before you buy. Go to the website and download the manual. it will give you dimensions. If this doesn't work you can create a vertical loop and install in the vertical part.

Chris
 
If you get an EasyTouch, you'll be able to control pump on-off and CircuPool on-off. You won't get full variable control of the pump, and no control of the SWG though ScreenLogic, except for basic on-off scheduling. Some Pentair pumps can be set up with four preset speeds, which you can initiate with ScreenLogic/ET, but I'm not sure about the Superflo. Others here will know. You won't be able to adjust the RPMs of the four speeds with ScreenLogic, only which preset speed to use. The adjustment of the RPMs happens with the pump interface. Each speed requires one relay of the ET, so keep that in mind, as some ET models only have a total of four relays. There are other ways to trigger the presets, I just learned that the other day, but I don't know how to get that working. I think I read that in this thread.
Thanks Dirk, I will keep this in mind. I think I read the other way was to connect one relay from ET->pump->SWG? not sure.
 
Three of these (though one of the two pictures is showing the wrong part on this page):


and three of these:


Plus teflon tape, sweating gear (torch and solder and flux), plus 2" PVC, various elbows, glue, etc.

Before you connect everything up, plan it out so that you have a generous chunk of PVC pipe before each copper conversion. That way, if the copper connection leaks, there will be room to cut out the PVC and unscrew the threaded PVC, so you can go again with the sweating. Then put it back together with a PVC coupler when done. You won't be able to reheat the copper with the PVC threaded in. I'm projecting because I suck at sweating copper, so I'm fairly certain I'd need to do at least one of the joints twice.

Edit: ouch, that 1-1/2" copper fitting is also about $25. Maybe someone else here can offer a better/cheaper way to convert the copper to PVC...
yeah those are quite expensive at $25 each. I've been wondering if i could take the 1.5" copper pipe out of the heater and stick a high temp PVC in the same port to avoid cooper to pvc connection? not sure how it's connected once it goes inside the heater. I might have to open it up and take a look. then I'll only need a 2" threaded female copper adapter at the 2" elbow to connect to 2" pvc for SWG.
 
Looks to me you have room straight out of the heater before the bend or after the bend prior to the valve that I presume will switch from pool returns to spa return. Best to measure though before you buy. Go to the website and download the manual. it will give you dimensions. If this doesn't work you can create a vertical loop and install in the vertical part.

Chris
Thanks i'm looking at some SWG options but it seems you're right, there's enough length before the bend. there's a small spa bypass pipe after the bend (for spa overflow when on pool return), so I can't replace that part unless i want to redo that bypass with PVC.

you mentioned using Borate to help with high PH and scaling, I am having this same issue! since i switched this pool from tablets (previous owner) to liquid chlorine, i noticed white scales formed all around at the pool water level, after i drained the water from 100 CYA to 30 CYA. I used of couple of gallons muriatic acid and could bring PH way down from normally 8-8.2 to 7.5, but TA (160) wouldn't budge at all! and it only takes a week to get back up there. CH is 300. I think my fill water has high PH (maybe 7.8 or 8.0) and TA of 160. I have added back the tablets now to raise CYA to 50 and see. Would borate help in this case?

also, should i be concerned about the heater, if i switch to SWG? I heard salt would destroy it, unless it's a Salt resistant heater. no idea what mine is.
 
Wiring an ET is beyond me, I had it done. @Jimrahbe is the guy for that. It's greatly simplified when an IntelliFlo is involved, but if you need to control the speeds of any other pump, then you use extra relays for that, and then it gets a bit more complicated.

Regarding the plumbing, I had counted three conversions: one at the heater, one just above the ground for the spa return, and a third just above the ground for the pool return. If you're only installing the SWG, then you've got it right. I had counted three assuming you'd want to automate the pool/spa functions. For that, you have to replace that copper three-way with a CPVC three-way, so that you can bolt one of the actuators to it. That means all three legs of your return plumbing need to convert from copper to PVC... If you can somehow use the heater's connection to go straight to PVC, then yes, that'd be one less.
 
C,

Tell me what equipment you plan to get..

If you get an EasyTouch and don't get an IntelliFlo pump and an IC40 SWCG, then there is just no reason to get the EasyTouch.

My father taught me a long, long time ago... If you buy a good tool, you one cry once when you pay for it.. If you buy a cheap tool, you will cry every time you use it.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
there's a small spa bypass pipe after the bend (for spa overflow when on pool return), so I can't replace that part unless i want to redo that bypass with PVC
That's a non-standard plumbing feature (in fact, I've never seen it before). If we guessed right about that valve's purpose, that it's just there to always feed a little water to the spa, even in full-on pool mode, there are a couple work-arounds for that, so you could get rid of all of that. But these are based on replacing the copper three-way with the automated three-way. You can adjust the actuator to always send some water to the spa, even in pool mode. So one way it sends 100% to spa, the other way it sends 95% to pool and 5% to spa (or whatever you need). The other way is to set the scheduling of the ET to once a day go into spillover mode, say for 30 minutes. This mode sends pool water to the spa which spills over back into the pool. This circulates the spa and chlorinates it, so running that little bypass is not needed. That's pretty standard for an in-pool spa.

This is why I was suggesting the three copper to PVC conversions. Basically just leaving the minimum copper you have to, and replacing the rest of it with PVC. That way you can glue in the new three-way with actuator, get rid of the bypass, glue in the SWG, etc.
 
Last edited:
C,

Tell me what equipment you plan to get..

If you get an EasyTouch and don't get an IntelliFlo pump and an IC40 SWCG, then there is just no reason to get the EasyTouch.

My father taught me a long, long time ago... If you buy a good tool, you one cry once when you pay for it.. If you buy a cheap tool, you will cry every time you use it.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Thanks for chiming in, Jim!
Plan A: Superflo (just got for cheap) Circupool RJ45 or Universal 40 (on sale +$10 for next model up at discountsaltpool), Easytouch (useless in this case? then just use my Solartouch), get some sorta automation going while I wait for a few years $TSLA/$ROKU (stocks) to go up then full automation! :laughblue:

Plan B: IntelliFlo, IC40, Easytouch. budget will be super stretched at the moment.

good advice, your father is a very wise man!(y)
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.