Help in Vegas - Spa? Pool? Spool?

[VegasMike85]

Hey - brand new, hope this is the right section. Thanks in advance, just looking for some opinions on what we should do in our yard.

Moved to Vegas a few months ago and into a new build. Yard is small but empty and we need to landscape. Have never had a pool or spa, but love the look of fancy ones with nice landscaping. Due to the size of my yard I’m pretty limited in options and don’t know which way to go.

Yard is 56’ long and 21’ at its widest. HOA requires a 5’ setback from structures and property line so that leaves 11’ of max width. We also have a low retaining wall about 4’ out from property line. This can be included in the setback, but that means any decking perimeter is also restricted.

Given the size of the yard we initially nixed the idea of a pool and were thinking just a landscaped custom in ground spa and fire feature in the yard. Talked to one PB who did a design and proposed a 6’x8’ spa for $51K and landscaping/fire would be another $15K. He did a 3D design for us that looked nice (don’t have pictures) but not sure we really felt it was worth it at that price...

Talked to another PB who is coming out for exact measurements and will do a design but he is proposing either a spool of 216sq ft (not positive of exact dimensions) or a spa pool combo, spa would be 48sq ft and pool would be 200sq ft. We are having trouble conceptualizing this so are anxiously awaiting design, but it’s likely going to fill a large part of the yard. Spool he is estimating $61 and that includes a small landscape budget and fire feature. For the combo he estimates $75K.

I’ve also considered doing a semi IG spa with a portable spa. That will run $11-19K depending on size and options but is only a 1-2 day install. We also have to pay the electrician separately and would still need to landscape the rest of the yard, so my guess on all in for this plan would be at least $30K.

Lastly looked at a swim spa (endless pool). Those are more like $20-30K. The swim spa feels like it is a good idea because it allows the pool to be utilized for exercise and gives a decent amount of space for just splashing around and cooling off too. This however is the least visually appealing by far. It does go into the ground a few feet but still rises out by three feet or so and just looks blah to us...

The semi IG using portable has some definite benefits of being able to be quickly installed and is much cheaper than custom but worried it just won’t look as nice as we want...

I very much want at least a spa and look forward to regular soaks. My partner is not opposed to a spa and is okay with doing only spa but feels he’d get more utility from a small pool, and given the price thinks a pool may feel more worthwhile. It is just us currently, no kids in the immediate plans. Aside from the spa and/or pool and a fire pit we don’t need any space in our yard for anything.

Overall we would like to be closer to a $60K limit which may rule out the pool/spa combo, but I’m concerned about the amount of time to heat a spool in the winter to get it to soaking temp....

I don’t know whether gas heater (any custom work would be gas) or electric is better (portable spa or swim spa). Also seems like a portable spa would have a tight fitting cover which will help keep at temp and keep stuff out of the water when not in use.

Anyone in Vegas have a spool? Do you heat it to soaking temp ever? How long in advance will I need to start heating.... 5-6 hours?

Any thoughts on how these various options may impact resale value of the house? I know none of them are going to have an actual payback, but do any sound like they could be detractors that reduce resale?

Lastly we aren’t interested in pursuing an OB, we don’t have the time or patience to organize something like that.

I know this is a pretty free flowing post but we lack direction and really aren’t sure what we want, so just looking for any thoughts on these options...

 

[ajw22]

Do you have NG at your house or a propane tank? A large NG heater can get a spa to temp in 30-60 minutes.

 

[VegasMike85]

I have NG but the spool would be 216’ sq ft at a depth of 5’, so I’m assuming 30-60min is for a normal size spa and not spool?

 

[ajw22]

I have NG but the spool would be 216’ sq ft at a depth of 5’, so I’m assuming 30-60min is for a normal size spa and not spool?

Depends what the starting water temp is. 1 BTU will raise 1 lb of water 1 degree. Your spool would have around 8000 gallons or 67,000 lbs. A 400K BTU heater has maybe an 80% efficiency so lets say 320k BTU/hr. That should raise your spool about 5 degrees an hour.

Spa with 1600 gallons it should heat around 25 degrees an hour.

 

[dotbombjoe]

I'm in SoCal but had similar constraints re: size. Everything I read suggested giving up on the idea of using a small pool for serious exercise. I think it could be more generally effective for physical therapy situations.

re: endless pools...if you are or used to be a competitive swimmer (ie, triathlete...) and have used those types of devices before -- or at least an avid swimmer who has succeeded with very regimented workouts -- maybe that sort of thing might work. They also have treadmills that you can use for resistance walking/jogging but most of the ones I found don't get terribly fantastic reviews. But, it all depends on the individual.

If you think your primary use case is you two hopping in the spa, maybe just stick to the straight spa or even consider the portable spa and have them build a facade around it or something? I haven't really seen that done but it feels like it could and should be more common. The portable spas are generally much more advanced than a custom built gunite spa...they are really two very different experiences...number and types of jets and all that jazz...but I hear you, if you can't make it look nice then maybe that doesn't matter. I bet a creative landscaper could figure out a way to make a portable look like a built-in though and probably without breaking the bank either.

Going from the spa to a fire pit to dry off is awesome and I'd bet that is 98% of your usage unless you end up with kids...in which case I'd say the case for a spool improves. Heating all that water in a spool to spa temps sounds inconvenient (time-wise).

 

[kimkats]

Mike if you will take and share a pic of your yard I bet we can help you plan this fun thing! I would NOT bury a portable spa as they are not meant for that as it could cause it to fail faster.

Kim

 

[spoonman]

I’d be interested to see your pool designs. The prices strike me as being quite high. I had a top builder put in a no frills 14x28’ pool here in Phoenix 2 years ago for $31k. I know people who paid a lot less with cheaper builders. Granted, your pool has a heater and jets, but is also smaller. I’d consider another bid, or talking with the builder about what you can omit.

 

[Oly]

In the winter having a spa already at temperature is a huge benefit and will get much more use in my experience. Stand alone units are very reasonably priced and can be surrounded by decking.

 

[VegasMike85]

Sorry everyone, did not mean to be the type of person to start a thread and disappear!

Just met with our second PB today and the design blows the first one away. We are thinking of going with it but not fully decided.

I have attached an arial shot our yard. We are the corner lot. As you can see, not a lot of real estate to work with... HOA requires 5' perimeter from property boundaries and house.

Neither PB gave us a copy of their design but I will do my best to describe.

Center of house we have sliding glass doors to covered patio - just outside covered patio will be raised spa (18") that is 6.5'x8' (3.25' deep). This will have a spill over to pool where we have a small almost wet deck (not quite wet deck) that will lead into stairs. This part of pool will remain as wide as spa, but as we get around corner of patio it will widen to 9.5'. Initial depth is 3'9" and deeper end will be 5'. Total length of pool will be 20' starting from spa edge. (Pool heads towards street).

Spray decking around entire pool and over existing concrete under our covered patio, as well as another section past spa - big enough to fit a patio table or small fire pit, but not huge area.

Total price is expected to be $56K plus we would contract with them for finishing landscaping (~$10K).

This price includes standard plaster with a tile border and tile exterior for raised spa portion. Also includes 400K BTU Pentair heater, Pentair intelliflo pump + pentair filter, some colored LED lights, EasyTouch Pool & Spa control system, and auto vacuum system.

Some options we are considering are upgrading to quartz interior ($997) or pebble interior (standard - $3K; premium - $6.7K, premium polished - $8K). Also considering Pentair Intellichem Controller for Chlorine & PH ($3231).

Options we are thinking of skipping out on are In-floor cleaning system ($4K), Air Bar ($2.7K), and a bubbler on the 'wet deck'.

Any thoughts? Red flags? Upgrades to skip or to take?

 

[mknauss]

Drop the Intellichem. They do not work on outdoor pools as you must have higher CYA than the ORP probe can survive in. Get the SWCG (at least rated for twice the size of your pool volume). You can consider the IntellipH if you want. It just adds acid in the amount you set it.

Do you have a water softener? If so, and it is big enough, you should consider running a line from it to your auto fill. CH buildup is a big issue with LVVWD water. I drain and replace my pool water every 16 months or so due to CH buildup. Not a big deal for me, total cost is less than $50.

What is an 'auto vacuum'? I suggest getting a robot but not through the pool builder.

 

[VegasMike85]

Drop the Intellichem. They do not work on outdoor pools as you must have higher CYA than the ORP probe can survive in. Get the SWCG (at least rated for twice the size of your pool volume). You can consider the IntellipH if you want. It just adds acid in the amount you set it.

Do you have a water softener? If so, and it is big enough, you should consider running a line from it to your auto fill. CH buildup is a big issue with LVVWD water. I drain and replace my pool water every 16 months or so due to CH buildup. Not a big deal for me, total cost is less than $50.

What is an 'auto vacuum'? I suggest getting a robot but not through the pool builder.

Is SWCG a salt water chlorinator? The pool builder said they offer it (I think it was around $2k but he didn't include it in our proposal or give a lot of detail) but said he doesn't recommend it in Vegas because of the hard water - he said that they will need to be replaced every few years and we need to regularly acid wash the pool due to calcium buildup.

We do have a kinetco water softener installed in our garage but I assume that won't be big enough for a pool - I don't know much about them.

For auto vacuum, he described it as a robot, the paperwork just says "auto-vacuum system".

Thanks for the fast reply and advice!!

 

[mknauss]

Only way I would have a pool is with a SWCG (Saltwater Chlorine Generator). The PB does not understand chemistry. You manage your water chemistry and scale is not an issue. I have NEVER had to clean my SWCG in 4 years. No scale whatsoever. You should NEVER acid wash a pool, it destroys the plaster. You manage your pool water chemistry. You do not rely on a 'pool service' to manage the chemistry.

Remember you are only using the water softener to make up for evaporation. You fill the pool with regular water then use the softened water for make up. In the summer you will lose 1/2" to 3/4" of water per day.

 

[mknauss]

Make sure the vacuum system is not a suction side or pressure cleaner.
A robot plugs into an electrical outlet and has its own pump and filter. I have the Active20 (aka S200) from Maytronics.

 

[ajw22]

Pentairs latest control system is the Intellicenter which will be replacing the EasyTouch. Thread about it here —> Pentair IntelliCenter Review - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

 

[kimkats]

Will the spa block the view of the pool from inside the house? I would not want that.

Do you have model numbers for the equipment? That is very important to make sure it is big enough.

Take a tape measure and see where 5' hits the adults in the house. You will find most smaller adults would not be able to walk around in 5' of water. Depending on what you are aiming for I would go for 6' to allow some cannon balls OR go 4'5" or so if you want the whole pool to be walk-able.

Kim

 

[VegasMike85]

Here is the model or brand info that the PB provided me with for various items (not all included in price, some are add-ons or substitutes:

• Recirculation Filter Pump: Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed/Flow Filter Pump
• Filtration: Pentair 420 Sqft Clean & Clear Plus
• Auto-vacuum: Pentair Rebel IG
• Equipment Control: EasyTouch pool & Spa Control System w/ Screenlogic
• Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 400,000 BTU
• Spa has 6 jets, no further info on those included
• Automatic Water Chemistry: Pentair Intellichem Controller for Chlorine and PH
• In-floor Cleaning System - Paramount PV3 Infloor Cleaning System with up to 16 pop up valves
• SWCG: Pentair Intellichlor IC20 SCG Cell

I am a total newb to any type of pool ownership, I was looking through the Pool School site and see I should be checking my chemical levels daily... When spa/pool is getting a lot of use that doesn't sound like a problem, but in winter I anticipate only really using the spa and some weeks I could see me using it 3-5x/week, but there might also be entire weeks where I don't go near it. On those days is it going to be a problem if I ignore for a bit? Will either SWCG or Intellichem help me?

 

[ajw22]

We recommend you get a SWG sized at least 2X the size of your pool. The IC20 is too small. Get at least the IC40, if not the IC60. Pentair bundles the IC40 with the Easytouch or Intellicenter.

Get the specific model number of the pump. You want Variable Speed. Not sure you want Variable Flow.

Once you learn the chemical needs of your pool you can check chemistry once or twice a week with a SWG.

 

[kimkats]

For the care you will find your rhythm. In the winter it is VERY easy as there is little that needs to be done. If you get a SWG things are even easier!

Just know in the beginning you will need to test daily due to the new plaster. It will push the pH up as it cures.

Kim

 

[VegasMike85]

We recommend you get a SWG sized at least 2X the size of your pool. The IC20 is too small. Get at least the IC40, if not the IC60. Pentair bundles the IC40 with the Easytouch or Intellicenter.

Get the specific model number of the pump. You want Variable Speed. Not sure you want Variable Flow.

Once you learn the chemical needs of your pool you can check chemistry once or twice a week with a SWG.

I am looking at my proposal and they estimate my spa to be 867 gallons and the pool to be 3964, so wouldn’t the IC 20 be 4x the size of my pool?

Thanks for the input too! There is so much reading and to learn and right now it doesn’t make a ton of sense to me so it’s hard to wrap my head around!

To be honest the PB has scared me a bit away from SWG, but they seem so strongly recommended here that I’m not sure what to do.

Our spa has spill over to pool so I think we need to keep the pool filled in the winter to use the spa - one concern was that SWG doesn’t produce chlorine at colder temps so I am not positive what means for winter water chemistry...

We are thinking we want to proceed with this PB and he says they can give us a $1500 discount if we commit before the end of the month as they are trying to hit sales goals, so I feel a bit under pressure at the moment...

 

[ajw22]

I didn’t realize your pool was so small. An IC20 will do although you would be able to run an IC40 at a lower % output and the IC40 cell should last you twice as long. The IC40 is bundled with the ET and should not cost you much, if any, more.

Your pool and spa plumbing are tied together so both must stay open through the winter.

When water temp water is below the low 50s you switch to using liquid chlorine in your pool. The pool does not require as much chlorine in the winter with cold water and short daylight.

Get the SWG. It makes pool care so much easier. You won’t be sorry you did. And it isn’t an irreversible decision. At any time you can turn off your SWG and use other means to chlorinate your pool. But I doubt you will do that.