Hayward Heater Gusher

[KDpoolguy]

My Hayward H300 is interrupting my plans for a nice Sunday soak.
the pump was on high, pressure is fine (18 psi) at 2900 rpm. Water is dribbling out at a good pace from the header. In the image, you can see top bolts showing rust and the water seems to be coming out of the top area there; the area shows the dust/sand is cleaned off from the recent running water. The pump is off when I took the picture maybe 10 min after shutting it off.
Is this a gasket issue or a exchanger issue?
When the heater is off, in ”pool” mode, it doesn’t appear to leak, but it’s too soon to be sure, the waters coming out of the header gasket seating area.
UPDATE: I’ve been running the pump for 10 minutes and now it’s not leaking. ??!
?

 

[KDpoolguy]

@ps0303 Any recommendactions?

 

[swamprat69]

Probably the O-ring on the water header. Make sure to get the genuine OEM part as I ran into a fake knock off that was labeled as OEM and didn't fit correctly.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Thanks, I hope the one I get works. Did you get to use any rtv sealant on yours? @swamprat69
I already quickly ordered a $7 o-ring from Amazon, so I can get on the repair ASAP, and debated whether to get the Bypass Valve repair kit for $43, since I like to replace as much as possible when it’s open. I found a EBay post for an entire new header assembly for $230. Heck, I hope the exchanger isn’t failing. I guess I’ll check the copper heads once the header is off. If they’re thinning, I think I’m a good judge of their strength and lifespan. A buddy can weld some copper exchanged leaks, but I think tentatively that this is a failing gasket due to higher rpm-pressures while running the heater.

This is my first Hayward heater, as most I’ve owned/managed were Raypaks. Those were all 25+ yrs old and don’t have the internal bypass valves.

 

[swamprat69]

Like I stated, the first header O-ring that I ordered from amazon was not Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) Hayward and the O-ring was a slightly smaller diameter (not circumference) and would not seal. The second one I ordered was OEM, but I used a little silicone sealant in about four places to keep it in place when I put the header back on. I cleaned up the plastic facing of the header. I cleaned up the metal facing of the heat exchanger with some MA and further polished with CleanerAll ( a non-scratching clay polish). After tacking the O-ring in place I applied Pool and Spa Lube. In order to remove the header you will need to remove some wiring and the pressure switch attached to the header. When removing the nuts from the header be very careful not to drop them as they will fall into places that are very hard to retrieve them from and being stainless, they are not magnetic. When reattaching the header unions also be very careful as they are a fine thread and if they get cross-threaded you will be buying more parts.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Like I stated, the first header O-ring that I ordered from amazon was not Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) Hayward and the O-ring was a slightly smaller diameter (not circumference) and would not seal.

Yep, I figure I'll get the non-OEM, but there's a bunch of retailers on there so who knows--anyways it's already on the way. I think I'll just use is to remove the header and see what's going on, replace the oring tentatively and see if I need to get more parts.
In your experience, do you recommend getting the bypass kit and flow-control thermostat and just replacing all that stuff since it's off? It's gonna be about $80 for all that.

 

[swamprat69]

How old is the heater? when you open it up, look and see what condition the by pass and thermostat is in. This looks like a genuine Hayward part Hayward H-Series Header O-Ring - Haxhor1930

 

[KDpoolguy]

@Jimrahbe Any thoughts?
The heater is 18 years old, so it’s lifespan concerns me, but it works and most heaters here in the desert are low-use and aren’t too prone to rust.
I got home from work and found it's only beginning to leak when the heater kicks on. The flow rate & pressure aren't the issue, it’s only when the heater is on does it begin to leak. I confirmed the leaks are coming from the mate surface of the front header to the exchanger. As soon as the heater turns off the leaks stop.
Could this be the thermostat stuck shut, or broken bypass is causing the water not to flow properly—and the pressure in the exchanger/header is causing leaks to push thru?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

What I know about heaters you could put on the head of a pin..

None of my pools have a heater, so I really have no experience with them..

Sorry,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

What I know about heaters you could put on the head of a pin..

No worries @Jimrahbe it’s always good to hear from you—happy holidays!

I went ahead and ordered a new bypass valve and flow control thermostat. I found a normally $35 thermostat, for $5 so the fix will (hopefully) be just under $50 I’ve realized that the lion share of the work is R&R of the manifold header, so if I can replace all of the non-electrical wear parts while it’s opened, then it’s worth doing as much as possible to fix the problem source. I can see the exchanger through the portal, and the iron pieces have surface rust but no copper leaks. The gas control & ignition system works flawlessly, so looks like there’s no new heater in my future.

I’ve replaced one exchanger in my life and it was shockingly easy. Just disconnect electrical and pulled it out for a easy swap, but that was not my pool & the property owner couldn’t be swayed for a new heater.
I liken The costs to the engine going out in a 20 year old car. $1000 for a new engine, or $2000 for a new car. I opt for the new car.

I’ve got my eye on a new Raypak RP2100, but let’s hope this repair works. If/when I get a new heater I’ll probably put in a manual PVC bypass and replace a majority of the above ground 2” PVC going in/out of the heater.

 

[KDpoolguy]

@ajw22 Hey Allen, do you have any guidance on my gushing heater? I’m wondering if I should look beyond the manifold/header for source of the leak that’s only leaking from header/exchanger mate surface, when heat is on.
-Kevin

 

[ajw22]

I don’t have a good guess what your problem may be. I think the heater needs to be opened up for a good look at the water path. With the age of the heater you may find some surprises.

 

[KDpoolguy]

I‘ve got the kits all set to complete the repair—-at least lets hope. My current feeling is that the thermostat is locked up and rusted. Maybe the flow diverted is a problem as well, who knows. Seems totally reasonable as the Thermostat unit is so old that any 18 year old thermostat on a car is well past its lifespan. Ive done multiple tests and these lead me to surmise that when I turn on the heater it has to reach 115 degrees before the flow starts into the heat exchanger. So if the thermostat is locked up, it’s building up too much presssure in the manifold and causing water to leak past the deteriorating gasket/o-ring. I’ll report back once I see what’s behind the manifold. I’m worried about the rusted bolts now.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

Sounds like you have a good plan to me..

Good luck with your repair project and let us know the results.

Pics would be great..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Thanks Jim,
Wish I had better news. The bottom bolts (ha! Stainless?) are seized and one sheared off. I see a new heater in my future. The exchanger is really rusty too, but if I could/can still fix the manifold temporarily I’d be in good shape for a few more months. Oh well.
In the meantime, my circulation system is inoperable so I need to route a bypass quick. Any thoughts?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Kevin,

I would assume that any new heater will have different spacing on the heater's input and output connections.. If this is true, now is the time to remove the old heater and just connect the plumbing input to the output until your new heater arrives. You could then run the pool until the new heater arrives. Once you get the new heater, you can install a by-pass system as part of the install. In my mind, all heaters should have an by-pass so that you can take then out of the loop when not in season or when they are under maintenance.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[KDpoolguy]

Kevin,

I would assume that any new heater will have different spacing on the heater's input and output connections.. If this is true, now is the time to remove the old heater and just connect the plumbing input to the output until your new heater arrives.

Jim,
I'm leaning in this direction--to simply use 2 2" 90s and make a bypass and dispose of the old heater until I get the new one. That gives me some time. I've removed the heat exchanger in about 30 minutes and toyed with the idea of simply replacing it, but it's just not worth that much ($900). All of the steel/iron pieces disintegrated when I removed the exchanger and it's clear that the weather and the leak(s) did a number on the casing and interior parts. And, this allows me to get the Raypak heater I want. I'll have to move the PVC lines to match the Raypak, and this also will allow me to replace the Filter->Heater Inlet line completely, and a short run to Heater Outlet-> SWGC cell. The new Gen Hayward ED2s probably would match up with my existing, but I don't want another Hayward heater.
I believe I have the skill to install the new heater on my own--or with some help.

Couple Questions:

1. Where should I get my new heater from? I've always used INYO Pools for large stuff, or from my old neighbor, but wonder what I may find elsewhere? The Raypak prices look hard-to-beat. Thought I saw free shipping? Anyone have any good experiences with vendors?
2. What size heater BTU unit should I get? I have a very large spa (1500 gal BIG!) and a moderately sized pool approx 14k gal. This heater is a H300-300k BTU, of which they don't make a comparable version now. It's a toss up between a Raypak 266k and 336k. I have the gas line to handle both it would seem.

 

[ajw22]

In my opinion there is little downside in getting the largest NG heater your wallet can afford and your gas line can service. When you want to raise the pool or spa water XX degrees the larger heater will do it faster and use about the same amount of natural gas as a smaller heater that will run longer. So the benefit of spending a bit more on a larger heater lets you get the Spa up to desired temperature quicker.

 

[KDpoolguy]

In my opinion there is little downside in getting the largest NG heater your wallet can afford and your gas line can service. .

Allen, I concur. I’ve had a 266k btu for my last pool and it worked just fine, and I just can’t tell if
Raypak’s 266k => Hayward 300k; but I’ve resolved to get the 336k Raypak RP2100. Is really like a commercial ASME with the cast iron headers, . I liken the problem I’m having (as many do) as a car engine with a aluminum head and cast iron block. The head gasket inevitably leaks. My old 33 yr old Raypak had the old cast iron header manifolds and though there were leaks at the PVC->Brass, it was bulletproof.

I slept on it last night, as a near-$2000 purchase is painful—especially when this is a new home for us and was not expecting this. It’s hard because the heater stays dormant much of the year-and then only to heat the spa. I’ve heated pools only for one day at a time and even then I can count on one hand the times I have.

Today I’m going to use 2 90s and create a bypass so I can get circulation and game out a manual bypass plan and pvc upgrades while the heater arrives and I slowly install it.

 

[bdavis466]

I like PolyTech Pools. Free shipping and not tax. The 406A would get my choice... I would avoid the Low NoX version (407A) if you can.

www.polytecpools.com/Raypak-Ruud-RP2100-399K-BTU-Natural-Gas-Pool-Heater-Digital-406A-009219-009997_p_3372.html