Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup

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JoyfulNoise said:
I am going to take the contrary view, you do NOT want to use a mask.

We had a thread last year of a fellow who when out and bought a breathing mask with an acid filter cartridge that for over his mouth and nose. He wore goggles over his eyes. The mask eliminated the vapors but did something far worse, it eliminated his sense of smell and, in turn, eliminated his recoil reflex. His eye goggles were the breathable type. So, without a recoil reflex to cause his head to turn away, the acid vapors hit his eyes and he did not pull back. His corneas suffered mild chemical burns from the vapors. The only correct type of mask to use with acid vapors is a full face style mask that must be professionally fitted and checked for a tight seal. No other PPE's should be substituted.

The moral of the story is this - do not go overboard with the protective gear. Splash resistant goggles are about all you need. While the acid vapors are pungent and harsh smelling, they are not near any concentration that will be harmful to you or the baby. Believe me, your recoil reflex will be more than sufficient to protect you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
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Just came across this...

This should be in a sticky or warning note somewhere. Improper use of PPE can be much worse than not PPE at all. Losing sense of smell with a mask/respirator is uncommon, but not rare by any means. This can happen with a variety of solvents & paints. It is critical that the correct filter be used in a respirator. Masks usually very ill-fitting and are best for gross materials only (dust, mowing the lawn etc) - using a mask for chemicals is not a wise choice.
 
VTSoundman said:
Just came across this...

This should be in a sticky or warning note somewhere. Improper use of PPE can be much worse than not PPE at all. Losing sense of smell with a mask/respirator is uncommon, but not rare by any means. This can happen with a variety of solvents & paints. It is critical that the correct filter be used in a respirator. Masks usually very ill-fitting and are best for gross materials only (dust, mowing the lawn etc) - using a mask for chemicals is not a wise choice.
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I agree. This episode made quite an impression on me when I read about it at the time. We bought a mask but thought better of using it when the issue was brought up again here. I haven't had any problems, maybe once that I got a whiff of fumes. You can see them rising, so it isn't so hard to make sure you are up wind of them. The trouble is if the wind changes direction on you, but even then it is manageable if you're careful.

For the record, tonight's readings were:
Water Temp: 65
PH = 7.9 (target 7.7, therefore added 36 oz MA)
TA = 275 (I'm guessing this will be down to 250 by tomorrow, or very soon after.)
 
What a great thread, especially since I will be doing the same thing hopefully in the next week or so..... I read so much, I feel like I am ready to go. Sounds like your plaster job went perfect! [emoji106][emoji106]

I have the TF 100 kit, based on your experience what should I order for refills? Also how many gallons of MA should I have on hand?


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4-8 gallons of acid. They don't go bad and will surely get used so you might as well stock up.

It seems the TA test agents go the quickest, especially R-0009. When the TA is high, its helpful use use the 10ml water sample so each drop of the R-0009= 25ppm.
 
Patrick_B said:
Just checking in on this interesting thread. Interesting to us Pool Chem nerds anyway. :)

Brian you've done a fabulous job with all your help on this thread. Most excellent work Sir! :goodjob:
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I heartily concur! Thank you Brian! I would definitely be lost without your guidance here.

Tests from this morning:
Water temp: 63
PH = 7.7
TA = 250 (Yay!)

Do I keep targeting 7.7 to continue to bring the TA gradually down?
 
7.8 for the pH now. The TA will still go down with each acid addition but just slightly less.

I believe you are about a week and a half into this, and now that the TA is where it should be, you really only need to test the pH now. The TA will not rise so long as you keep the pH below 8. Still eep an eye on the TA, maybe once a week, but there should be no surprises.


Patrick_B said:
Just checking in on this interesting thread. Interesting to us Pool Chem nerds anyway. :)

Brian you've done a fabulous job with all your help on this thread. Most excellent work Sir! :goodjob:
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My miniscule chemistry knowledge base pales in comparison to yours and many of the others...I'll take the compliment though.
 
bdavis466 said:
7.8 for the pH now. The TA will still go down with each acid addition but just slightly less.

I believe you are about a week and a half into this, and now that the TA is where it should be, you really only need to test the pH now. The TA will not rise so long as you keep the pH below 8. Still eep an eye on the TA, maybe once a week, but there should be no surprises.




My miniscule chemistry knowledge base pales in comparison to yours and many of the others...I'll take the compliment though.
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Thank you, Brian. That makes sense. So my Test for tonight is:
Water Temp: 66
PH = 7.9 (target 7.8, therefore add 16 oz MA)

One question since I am only now beginning to get familiar with the water... What does it typically feel like through this process? If I ever happen to feel the water, to me it seems kind of slippery, and it has felt this way from the beginning. Is that because of where we have the PH and TA right now?
 
It shouldn't feel any different than your tap water. Typically low calcium levels cause foaming and soft feeling water but you have enough calcium in yours that that scenario is unlikely. Have you checked the CH recently?

Of anything, the water should leave your skin feeling a little dry and maybe even itchy since its so over saturated right now.
 
bdavis466 said:
It shouldn't feel any different than your tap water. Typically low calcium levels cause foaming and soft feeling water but you have enough calcium in yours that that scenario is unlikely. Have you checked the CH recently?

Of anything, the water should leave your skin feeling a little dry and maybe even itchy since its so over saturated right now.
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Maybe I'm just imagining things. The water is not foaming, and after having been in the water and then dried, the skin on my hand does feel dry and tight.

I just tested...
CH = 150
Is that within the range I need?

***
I looked back and saw that the last time I checked, on the 21st, CH was at 150.
 

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Ha! I'm just his puppet.

Jamie, being that your CH level has not changed is a very good thing. A calcium rise would indicate that you've lost some of the calcium carbonate from the plaster. What has likely happened is the opposite, your CH has probably risen slightly from the small amount of water added to compensate for evaporation but the reason you aren't seeing a higher reading is because some of it was absorbed into the plaster insuring that you will have a quality and long lasting finish.

- - - Updated - - -

Your calcium level is just fine. It's actually a little lower than I anticipated.
 
bdavis466 said:
Ha! I'm just his puppet.

Jamie, being that your CH level has not changed is a very good thing. A calcium rise would indicate that you've lost some of the calcium carbonate from the plaster. What has likely happened is the opposite, your CH has probably risen slightly from the small amount of water added to compensate for evaporation but the reason you aren't seeing a higher reading is because some of it was absorbed into the plaster insuring that you will have a quality and long lasting finish.

- - - Updated - - -

Your calcium level is just fine. It's actually a little lower than I anticipated.
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Thanks, Brian! This is good news. As long as I'm not screwing something up I'll be happy, but even better if the plaster is being enhanced by this process you are so generously leading me through. (That was the goal, after all!) I appreciate your help very much.
 
Right now I've got 5 pucks dissolving in my floater. 3 originally added three days after fill, then 2 more added over the next few days, (the 5th added yesterday). I tested the FC tonight and strangely got 0.5 the first time, then 2.0 the second time, testing from the same volume of sample water I took for tonight's PH test. The testing procedure says the amount of powder you add doesn't have to be exact, but it seems like it must have some effect.

Regardless of that, though, am I ok with those chlorine results to not have to worry about algae? I know Brian reassured me yesterday, but for some reason I'm nervous about it. When I am brushing I sometimes see brown puffs coming off the floor in some spots, but those look more like residual dirt from the leaves I finally got to vacuum out yesterday. Maybe it is my "slippery water" question that has triggered my worry.
 
Very unlikely. If you did have algae, you'd probably not get any chlorine to register. The pucks dissolve very slowly which is why you aren't seeing very high numbers.

You have hardly any CYA so any measurable chlorine is actually a higher concentration than a pool with much more CYA (80) and a FC/CYA of 7.5% (6 in this case) as recommended on this site. CYA significantly buffers the strength of chlorine which is why higher chlorine levels are needed when CYA levels increase.

If you still have doubts you can always do an OCLT to be sure there is nothing growing but I'm certain you are fine.

Say your CYA level is 5 (which it probably is), you would need to have a 0.35 ppm of chlorine to meet the 7.5% FC/CYA ratio. Assuming you are at 0.5ppm FC, you are at 10% FC/CYA. If you are closer to 2 ppm (like you said you might be and could be possible) then you are 7% above shock levels!
 
bdavis466 said:
Very unlikely. If you did have algae, you'd probably not get any chlorine to register. The pucks dissolve very slowly which is why you aren't seeing very high numbers.

You have hardly any CYA so any measurable chlorine is actually a higher concentration than a pool with a FC/CYA of 7.5% as recommended on this site. CYA significantly buffers the strength of chlorine which is why higher chlorine levels are needed when CYA levels increase.

If you still have doubts you can always do an OCLT to be sure there is nothing growing but I'm certain you are fine.
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Thanks for the reassurance, Brian. I think I'll just trust you on it for now. :) But I may look up the OCLT procedure just in case. ;-)
 
Jamie, if you are hovering 2.0 FC right now or lower, you really don't have enough to perform OCLT without really sketchy results. There simply isn't enough FC in the water. Don't panic over growth right now. The percentages Brian laid out are correct with regard to FC/Cya ratio, so you have more FC strength than you might imagine.
 
Patrick_B said:
Jamie, if you are hovering 2.0 FC right now or lower, you really don't have enough to perform OCLT without really sketchy results. There simply isn't enough FC in the water. Don't panic over growth right now. The percentages Brian laid out are correct with regard to FC/Cya ratio, so you have more FC strength than you might imagine.
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Thanks, Patrick. When I looked up the OCLT procedure last night I realized that my current FC level doesn't fit the necessary parameters, as you point out. So I guess I won't worry about it and will continue trusting the experts. :)

My test this morning:
Water temp: 65
PH= 7.9 (target 7.8, therefore add 16 oz of MA)

kimkats said:
Jamie this has been a great teaching thread for me to follow! WOW on Brian's help! That is a true gentleman for sure! I hope you are baking him some brownies and cookies! LOL

Kim
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Yes, Kim, I have learned a ton too and expressing my appreciation like that definitely crossed my mind! I think we'll just name our 7th child after him and call it even. ;-)
 

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