Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup

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I will be interested to see what the experts say, but the fact that your CC is down to 0.5 it looks like you're going the right direction. If there was something growing it looks like your getting it under control. From what I can understand, if you get your FC up to 2 and your CC stays at .05 or less, you're golden. But again I'm far from an expert. I love this thread, thanks for sharing so much information.


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Until your stabilizer (CYA) comes up to measurable levels, any chlorine you add to the water is going to be strongly degraded by UV light (even on a cloudy day). So it will be hard to maintain a higher FC level using bleach as the sun is just going to burn it off. This, I surmise, is your problem. But I don't think you're in any danger of your pool collapsing into a giant black bottomless pit that sucks in all structures around it ;)

Keep up the diligent work Jamie, you're doing great!!

Matt

PS - on balance (the phrase, not the plaster dude), bleach is net-neutral with respect to pH. You guessed your lower than expected pH value right - someone poured a little too much in ;)
 
CC levels really aren't all that great of an indicator of an issue. Obviously high CC numbers indicate that something is going on but just because the CC had dropped doesn't mean that there is no issue.

For example, my neighbor had a very obvious algae issue that I helped him through. During the entire process the CC readings were 0 to 0.5.

The most troubling thing I've seen thus far was the chlorine addition with no measurable rise in FC shortly after dosing.

I'm not sure what to think. I don't see how a pool that has measurable chlorine levels since day one could develop a problem in relatively cold water in such a short period of time. There are several variables that aren't exactly clear.

The plaster is the priority right now and the startup period is close to over.
 
Thanks for the help and reassurance. Thankfully, the startup itself (PH and TA) is going well. For now we will do our best with the chlorine over the weekend with our divided schedules, until I can give it my full attention when I get home.

My husband tested this morning.
PH = 7.8
FC = 2.0
CC = 0.5

I'm glad the FC is up to 2 finally. I wonder if our circulation isn't very good to have distributed the chlorine well yesterday, or if the sun was burning it off too fast? I'll try to adjust the returns down when I get home... I was more concerned with getting effective surface skimming, so maybe I need to balance those better.

My husband will be gone until late tonight, so there will be no updates until then. But in the mean time, if there is any more help you can offer, I would appreciate it very much!
 
Sorry for not checking in before now. I asked about the City water because of your higher CC. Some cities use Chloramines for sanitizing, so it gives Pool Owners the elevated CC level on their testing. You're moving in the right direction with the FC/CC balance now, so it's a moot point. Carry on! :salut:
 
Here is the update now that I'm home and able to get the summary of my husband's testing while I was gone:

4/2 11:30 pm
PH = 7.9 (therefore add 16oz MA to target 7.8)
FC = 0 (after a day of full sun. therefore add 83 oz bleach to target 2.0)

4/3 9:30 am
PH = 7.8 (do nothing)
FC = 2.0 (do nothing)

7:15 pm (I resumed testing for this set)
PH = 7.9 (add 16oz to target 7.8)
FC = 0 (add 83oz bleach to target 2.0)
CC = 0.5

It must be good that the FC came up to 2.0 as planned overnight after last night's dose of bleach, and I assume it's pretty expected to have it burned up over the course of a whole sunny day to be pretty low by the evening. But I still have the pucks in the pool, so shouldn't I expect to always have at least some FC in the pool instead of it going to 0?

For now we will stay the course of testing twice a day and dosing with acid and bleach as needed unless directed otherwise. Should we continue targeting an FC of 2.0 and PH of 7.8?

Thank you again for the help!
 
Without CYA (stabilizer) in the pool, the chlorine is going to burn off in the sun. You haven't added that many pucks (despite how it feels) and so you'll be going through a lot of bleach until the stabilizer increases. You could try to measure it but anything below 20ppm won't show up on the test and so it would be a waste of reagent to do so.

Once you get the CYA to about 30ppm or so, your FC should last a little longer.
 
JoyfulNoise said:
Without CYA (stabilizer) in the pool, the chlorine is going to burn off in the sun. You haven't added that many pucks (despite how it feels) and so you'll be going through a lot of bleach until the stabilizer increases. You could try to measure it but anything below 20ppm won't show up on the test and so it would be a waste of reagent to do so.

Once you get the CYA to about 30ppm or so, your FC should last a little longer.
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Thanks, Matt. That makes sense. Now that I'm home and can give it some attention, is it recommended to buy some CYA and bring it up to 30 ppm in the pool? Or should I stick with the pucks and bring it up slowly. I'm to open to doing whatever is most advisable in my situation.
 

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Add the CYA to get to 40 but buy enough to get to 80 because that's where you'll eventually want to be.

Just to be on the safe side figure that your current level is 10 though it is most likely not.

Also you can begin slowly lowering the TA by targeting a pH of 7.5-7.6. This won't require nearly the attention that you've been giving the pool up to now and still allows for a pretty good buffer from things getting too out of whack. You can expect the CYA to lower the pH noticeably while you are adding it so no need to be alarmed. Once the TA Gets to about 120 go back to maintaining a pH of 7.6-7.8 until your CH rises to a reasonable level.

Test your salt level and buy enough solar salt to get you to 3200ppm.

The EasyTouch should be set up if it isn't already.

If it hasn't been done yet, please go swimming!
 
Also I'm pleased to see that the FC was 2 last night and was still 2 this morning. That's pretty much a mini OCLT with good results and proves you are losing the chlorine due to the sun.

Once you get the CYA in the water, your new FC min will be 3 and target about 5.
 
bdavis466 said:
Add the CYA to get to 40 but buy enough to get to 80 because that's where you'll eventually want to be.

Just to be on the safe side figure that your current level is 10 though it is most likely not.

Also you can begin slowly lowering the TA by targeting a pH of 7.5-7.6. This won't require nearly the attention that you've been giving the pool up to now and still allows for a pretty good buffer from things getting too out of whack. You can expect the CYA to lower the pH noticeably while you are adding it so no need to be alarmed. Once the TA Gets to about 120 go back to maintaining a pH of 7.6-7.8 until your CH rises to a reasonable level.

Test your salt level and buy enough solar salt to get you to 3200ppm.

The EasyTouch should be set up if it isn't already.

If it hasn't been done yet, please go swimming!
Click to expand...

Thanks, Brian! That gives me a very thorough plan to follow.

I tested this morning and got:
PH = 7.9 (target 7.5, therefore add 77 oz MA)
FC = 2.0 (do nothing)
CC = 0
(I actually did the Chlorine tests twice and the above numbers were the results of my second test. The first time I got FC=1.5, CC= 0.5. Since the FC seemed to go down overnight which was strange, I redid the test after rinsing the vial with pool water and thoroughly drying it. I'm not sure why the results would be different, but I'm going to trust the second test.)

Since it's been awhile since I tested TA I tried to do that last night, but for the life of me, I couldn't get nice, full drops of R-0009 to come out, despite wiping the tip with a damp paper towel, and then damp cotton cloth. Most times the drops would slip out of the tip even before I could get the tube fully vertical. Even this morning the same thing happened twice, and I kept getting my TA= 300 (same as last night).

Last week I had gotten the TA down to 250 and I was able to get nice full drops then, so I'm thinking it's just a discrepancy in my testing. But since I'm now trying to get the TA down to 120, what number should I use as my baseline? I can't imagine I'm actually at 300, but I can't seem to get the full drops that I need.

I will pick up the CYA sometime today (or have my husband get it on his way home) and get that added to the pool as soon as I can. Do I calculate how much I need based on the target and put it all in one sock somewhere in the pool? (I need to look this up... Is it in front of a return or in the skimmer?)

Finally, the EasyTouch is not set up yet except the lights, which I figured out how to do at the panel. We need to update our Mac operating system on our desktop to be able to use the ScreenLogic for programming (we are not particularly tech savvy and obviously put this off way too long!), and I'm hoping my husband can do that tonight. Once that is done and I get the ScreenLogic up and running, I will let you know.

As for the swimming, no that has not happened yet, much to the chagrin of my children, although I must say they have been very patient. I'll get the CYA in and the chlorine up a bit, and use swimming this week as an incentive to get them to work hard on their school. ;-)
 
The actual TA level isn't all that critical since you can't really do anything about it. By maintaing a lower pH, the TA will slowly come down with time. The lower the pH is and the higher the TA is the more out of balance the C02 level is between the pool and the air. Increased outgassing makes the pH rise, which means more acid, which lowers the pH and TA...and the cycle repeats. It isn't possible for your TA to go back up to 300. Given the acid you've added over the last few days, it should have dropped by about 20 putting you around 225.

Are you doing the FC test with a 10ml or 25ml sample? I assume 10ml because of the results you are posting. If you are looking for a little more accuracy, 25ml, 2 scoops of powder and each drop of R-0871= 0.2ppm.
 
bdavis466 said:
The actual TA level isn't all that critical since you can't really do anything about it. By maintaing a lower pH, the TA will slowly come down with time. It isn't possible for your TA to go back up to 300. Given the acid you've added over the last few days, it should have dropped by about 20 putting you around 225.

Are you doing the FC test with a 10ml or 25ml sample? I assume 10ml because of the results you are posting. If you are looking for a little more accuracy, 25ml, 2 scoops of powder and each drop of R-0871= 0.2ppm.
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Yeah, I didn't think the TA should go up, and that, combined with it being obvious that the drops are coming off too fast and small, made me realize the TA reading is off.

We have been using the 10 ml sample. It's good to know about the 25 ml sample method for better accuracy. I'll have to look into using that. Thank you!
 
kimkats said:
I telling the kids!!!!! HEY KIDS!!! HE SAID YOU CAN GO SWIMMING!!! LOL Jamie did they hear me????????

Kim
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Haha! I think they must have had your voice echoing in their ears all day! They are very eager to get in, but we are still working on getting in a full day of school. (Aren't I a mean mom?! ;-) )
 
kimkats said:
Not a mean mom at all but a very good mom...............me on the other hand=good Aunt! Rootbeer and poptarts all around and pool play time! OH yeah! I will be the favorite one!

Kim
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LOL! And I'll let you take care of the little ones' bedtimes when they still haven't come down off of their sugar high! ;-)

Well, I got the CYA in the pool and brought the FC up to 5 this afternoon, and the whole family made our debut splash in the pool tonight after dinner. It had been in mid to high 80s today, but by the time we swam the sun was already pretty low in the sky and the pool was mostly shaded, so that, combined with a water temperature of 69 max, made it a little chilly! But the kids had a great time and were very excited to be in the pool earlier than the 30 day wait that had become resigned to.

And here is proof that I can follow Brian's instructions, not only regarding pool chemistry, but also when it's time to finally let the kids swim... :)




(It's been awhile since I updated my build thread, so I think I'll add a few other pictures over there too.)
 

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