I didn't understand you were gonna' leave that old hopper in. Is it gonna be part of the new pool or is it gonna be busted up and removed?
Florida Block-Pool Build
- Thread starter timjs
- Start date
It's only in there to hold the hopper walls up for now. Once the block walls are built I intended to remove the existing hopper and floor and redo it all. With the water damage from the rain now, I'm not sure how to proceed.
Rock and hard place now for sure. I am not sure what to say or suggest to tell you the truth.
My gut says treat is as if there was no pool there before and get a vinyl pool set up to put in there. Another idea is to go with a concrete pool with plaster again acting as if there was not pool there before. Saying that it made me look up at your title to remind me of what you were trying to do. Again I come back to acting as if there was not a pool there before. As such I am leaning towards removing the hopper now so you can see what is under there and maybe control it a bit from washing out more. I would also get some LARGE tarps to protect what dirt is left on the sides. That hole is kind of scary to me as well. I would find a way to see just how long it is and we can all brain storm to see what to use to fill it in. I would NOT allow anyone to walk on that area of the yard.
My gut says treat is as if there was no pool there before and get a vinyl pool set up to put in there. Another idea is to go with a concrete pool with plaster again acting as if there was not pool there before. Saying that it made me look up at your title to remind me of what you were trying to do. Again I come back to acting as if there was not a pool there before. As such I am leaning towards removing the hopper now so you can see what is under there and maybe control it a bit from washing out more. I would also get some LARGE tarps to protect what dirt is left on the sides. That hole is kind of scary to me as well. I would find a way to see just how long it is and we can all brain storm to see what to use to fill it in. I would NOT allow anyone to walk on that area of the yard.
All good points. Tomorrow, ill grab another pump that can get the level lower (the pump in the milk crate gets down to about 6 inches) and ill see if i can see whats hidden. The missing soil (sand..) didnt just up and disappear. It must be in there somewhere.
If I have to fill in the hopper, even just partially, to get back to a stable base for the footer then so be it. First step is controlling the water.
If I have to fill in the hopper, even just partially, to get back to a stable base for the footer then so be it. First step is controlling the water.
You said you hate to fill that side in with stone for a solid base. I'm thinking we all hate having to do what we have to do. You're never going to be able to build on a wet sandy surface. It will sink. You need a solid foundation and you're not going to get away without doing something. Even if it didn't rain and you did this, once the ground water rose again,you'd probably find sinking/settling pool walls. So,my advice is to pay attention to how the ground is reacting to the ground water. If you can't figure it out, find someone who knows how to build who can lay out a solid plan. This is probably why Florida doesn't build homes with basements. The sandy soil is so unstabilized. You definitely have your work cut out for you.
You're correct on all accounts.
I'm getting a quote for crushed rock. I didn't want to do it this way because the truth is, the old pool sat there for 40 years on this sand, and the walls never sank. The concrete deck settled of course, but the old plastic walls were all remarkably level still. The original builder didnt even pour a concrete collar to "lock them in".. just sat them on the sand and it was fine.
As of now I've resigned myself to the labor and cost of putting in a crushed rock base for the wall footer. I'll likely also make the footer 24 inches wide, just to be over kill.
@duraleigh what is your opinion of laying fabric down on the sand, followed by the crushed rock, then pouring concrete directly over the rock? I feel like without a separation layer with the fabric, the rock base will sink into the sand anyways, bringing the footer down with it.
What if I lay down a crushed rock/crushed concrete layer 4 inches thick over the ENTIRE area? Under the walls, the shallow floor, AND the deep end hopper/floor?
I don't think so. Here is my thinking.....it involves a poolkrete floor, not concrete.
I would remove the old hopper and basically start over.
Remove as much loose sand/debris as you can to get solid virgin soil (that may not be completely possible). Next, dig a semi-permanent well point that you can keep a submersible pump in to extract any water from rains........you have to keep as much water out of that hole as possible.
If you can do that, then I would suggest digging a 30" wide base and filling it with 4-6" of Clean #57 rock.
Next pour your concrete into a wood frame on top of the rock. I would then start the blocks on top of that footing. I would not quite bring the blocks to one side or the other of the footing......more or less centering the block wall on the footer. The idea is to allow the non-compactible #57 rock to be a sort of floating support for your footer. The rock should not sink into the sand and footer will float on the rock. It will "move" a very tiny bit but I believe it will support a liner pool.
This is not "sure fire" but I can think of no other way to try it. I am PMing you my phone number if you would like to talk. there are some other possibilities but the require a dialogue.
I think @duraleigh said what I meant better than I said it!
Got the PM, thanks!
I'll certainly want to chat! If we come up with some good information, I'll mirror it here as well for other members to see and find in the future if they have a similar situation.
This forum is something else. I should become a donating member, seems worth it to me.
Here ya go!
www.troublefreepool.com
We can help you maintain your pool so it looks like this:How Clear is TFP Clear? once you get it built using stuff you can buy from Lowes, Walmart, ect! How neat is that?
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www.troublefreepool.com
We can help you maintain your pool so it looks like this:How Clear is TFP Clear? once you get it built using stuff you can buy from Lowes, Walmart, ect! How neat is that?
@duraleigh I'm back. I got a little over my head last year in other people's projects (I build cars). But now that I'm caught up on that, I can dedicate some time to this big hole in my back yard.
I have a question, as I'm now working on framing the concrete footing, and trying to settle on the depth and dimensions.
1) I decided the best way to work with my saturated muddy sandy soil and prevent excessive settling, is to make the footing overkill. 24 inches wide, and 8 inches thick with plenty of rebar in it. Sounds good, yeah?
2) I'm trying to decide how far out of the ground the top of the block should stick out. My first thought was to make it stick up a good 6 inches to keep rain water from draining into the pool, but then again coping will add another couple inches to that height. I dont want this pool sticking way up out of the ground when its done after all.. Thoughts?
I have a question, as I'm now working on framing the concrete footing, and trying to settle on the depth and dimensions.
1) I decided the best way to work with my saturated muddy sandy soil and prevent excessive settling, is to make the footing overkill. 24 inches wide, and 8 inches thick with plenty of rebar in it. Sounds good, yeah?
2) I'm trying to decide how far out of the ground the top of the block should stick out. My first thought was to make it stick up a good 6 inches to keep rain water from draining into the pool, but then again coping will add another couple inches to that height. I dont want this pool sticking way up out of the ground when its done after all.. Thoughts?
1) Those are the same dimensions I used. Surely overkill but not that much more money for peace of mind
2) Your deck and your landscape ALL need to slope away from the pool. Is your decking going to be cantilevered concrete or something else?
2) Your deck and your landscape ALL need to slope away from the pool. Is your decking going to be cantilevered concrete or something else?
Yeah, I'm trying to plan the slope, which is why I know the top course of block needs to extend past ground level SOME amount, just not sure how much.
I don't know that I'll spend the money on a full concrete cantilevered coping/decking with the forms and all that.. I'll most likely do pre-cast units, paver style right on top of the block. After the back fill has time to settle, THEN I'll pour an actual decking up against the pavers. (with expansion joints of course)
Just make sure to slope away from the house and neighbors as well. Something else to think about.
Luckily the neighbors property won't be a variable. One thing that IS a variable, is the pool is going to be maybe 5-6ft from the house foundation at it's closest point. Therefore, if I build the pool a few inches too high in elevation in relation to the house, it's going to be very noticeable and annoying.
To be honest I'm about settled on setting the top of the block, at the exact same elevation as the house foundation. Once coping is installed, the total height will be a few inches higher.
While pretty much every rainstorm here in Florida qualifies as "heavy" (I measure 1" per hour often here), the soil is almost pure sand and drains well. I'm not super worried about water pooling up against the house... but I am worried about keeping it out of the pool.
I get the weather before you do with living in Tallahassee so know of what you speak! It can be heavy and fast for sure!
I know about the sandy soil for sure as well BUT you sure do not want the water to wash out the foundation for the house. You can and should find a way to have a slight slope on either side to the pool to have the rain water to go from the house around either side of the pool to the back of the yard. It does not have to be a big slope. Just enough to roll a ball slowly.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,106
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
According to this page...
How Much Space Between House And Pool? [In-Ground And Above-Ground]
If you’re thinking about building a pool, you probably have a few questions about how much space you should have between your house and your pool. Well, we've pulled together all the answers you need from professional pool installers to get started. The national standard is 10 feet away from...
homedecorbliss.com
In Florida, a pool is a permitted accessory use under the following circumstances: the distance from the outside wall of the pool to the nearest side lot line or rear lot line or building shall exceed 5 feet but not exceed 10 feet from any side.
Make sure you clearly have the 5 feet if that is your code and you don't discover you have a problem when you go to sell the house.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.According to this page...
How Much Space Between House And Pool? [In-Ground And Above-Ground]
If you’re thinking about building a pool, you probably have a few questions about how much space you should have between your house and your pool. Well, we've pulled together all the answers you need from professional pool installers to get started. The national standard is 10 feet away from...
In Florida, a pool is a permitted accessory use under the following circumstances: the distance from the outside wall of the pool to the nearest side lot line or rear lot line or building shall exceed 5 feet but not exceed 10 feet from any side.
Make sure you clearly have the 5 feet if that is your code and you don't discover you have a problem when you go to sell the house.
Looks like 5+ft to the porch slab.. about 7+ft to the actual house wall. These are estimates, since I'm eyeballing where I *expect* the pool to end up. However, with that information I can move the pool over another 6" to give more clearance.
changing the subject a bit.......are you thinking of a well point (pump) to keep the water away from your pool?