First Ever Issue- Advice Required

lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
Hi Everyone,

I will start off by saying thank you to all here that have dedicated so much of their wisdom and time.
I have never had to post much within the forums as I really have not had any prior issues so , once again I’d just like to say thanks for any advice..
In Ontario, Canada and have a Vinyl 17000 gallon inground kidney.
New Vinyl Liner was installed five weeks ago.
The filling water is from a county filling station.

Filtration- Sta-Rite DE (S8D110) Grids New during liner replacement
SWG- Hayward T-15
Heated-Sta-Rite 333,000Btu
Pump-Sta-Rite VSF
After the new water was pumped in and running since , a build up of sand like grit could be felt on the bottom in the shallow end. I figured at first it was just dirt. After a couple of weeks with pump running 24/7 on low to medium speed, I started to notice a build up of white grit, flaky substance forming all around the bottom walls and floor within the deep end. I attempted to brush off but this was caked on and did not want to damage the new liner obviously.
Took samples to pool store while I was there picking up my own Taylor test kit.
the original readings :
FC-1.4
PH- 8.4
TA-250
CH-400
CYA-24

As of today I have added a total of 8 Littes of Muriatic Acid over a week time frame.
also have added liquid CYA (4L) jug

The white grit has started to turn into a powder as I can now brush it off the side walls and bottom but there still are a few stubborn spots.
My readings today still had a PH of 8.0 and TA -250
CYA-60

im guessing this is calcium but have not gotten that deep into testing.
What I am worried about is the amount of liquid acid I have had to dump in.
Any thoughts suggestions would be most appreciated!!!

thanks everyone

Ken
 

cowboycasey

Gold Supporter
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 3, 2013
4,324
Fletcher, OK
Your sky high TA is raising you PH just as fast as you are lowering it.. It will start to go down but it is going to take a lot of MA.. Also a higher PH of 8.4 is harder to get down to 7.2, drop with poolmath and then retest in 30 minutes and drop again if not at 7.2...

1. Using poolmath add the amount to take your PH to 7.2 ( you can put this in all at once or cut in half in front of a return to get mixed in)
2. wait till it returns back to 7.8 / 8.0
3. repeat step 1 until your TA gets down to recommended levels but I would recommend a lower TA between 50 to 70 :)

Round up on CYA so that would be 30
You FC is low for a CYA of 30 and your CYA is recommended to be 70 for a SWG, that would put your FC to 5

I hope this helps :)
 
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lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
Thank you for the advice.
think I need to provide an update as I was just pulling the filter apart and oh boy do I have issues.
When the liner was changed and water was in the installer added liquid chlorine 14 bags of salt and a whole lot of granular stabilizer into the skimmer.
The grids are completely caked with a crust that is not coming off easily and looks like patches of paint.
I cannot even scrub it off with a bottle brush. Good grief.
This is a disaster:-
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
6,896
Central California
Not a disaster, we got you. But help us help you. Can you put all that great info you included about your pool specs in your signature? Something similar to mine? Include which Taylor kit you bought (model number). They're not all equal. Then you'll need to stop testing in the pool store and do all the tests yourself. And post those results as you have been. It sounds worse than it is.

It may be that your CYA is what's in your filter. He shouldn't have just poured it in like that, if that's what he did. It needs to be dissolved so it doesn't get caught like that. I'll have to defer to others to help you test for that, and how best to clean it up (that hasn't happened to me yet).

Please don't be discouraged. This will be a one-step-at-a-time process, and you only need to worry about that next step. So start with your signature. Let us know if you need help with that. Then we'll make sure you have the right test kit...
 

lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
Not a disaster, we got you. But help us help you. Can you put all that great info you included about your pool specs in your signature? Something similar to mine? Include which Taylor kit you bought (model number). They're not all equal. Then you'll need to stop testing in the pool store and do all the tests yourself. And post those results as you have been. It sounds worse than it is.

It may be that your CYA is what's in your filter. He shouldn't have just poured it in like that, if that's what he did. It needs to be dissolved so it doesn't get caught like that. I'll have to defer to others to help you test for that, and how best to clean it up (that hasn't happened to me yet).

Please don't be discouraged. This will be a one-step-at-a-time process, and you only need to worry about that next step. So start with your signature. Let us know if you need help with that. Then we'll make sure you have the right test kit...
Thanks!!
Test kit is K-1004
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
6,896
Central California
I'll leave the filter cleaning advice to others, who would know that model, I don't. Nice signature, by the way!! Thanks.

You need a better test kit. We only recommend two (not counting the salt test kit), with a few option variations. We all use them, and our advice is predominantly based on the results of one or the other kit. You can still use your kit, but it's missing some items. So you'll need to either buy one of the two kits, or supplement your kit with the missing items. You have to be able to test CYA. Calcium is not as important for your pool as it is for mine, but I think you still need to keep an eye on it (not 100% sure on that, as I have a plaster pool). And you need to be able to test for salt, which is not included in either recommended kit. It's an add-on. While I'm spending your money, you want a SpeedStir. It's a must have. Pay now, thank me later (I swear you will).
Be sure to add your test kit model to your signature. And the SpeedStir when you get yours.

Stand by, I'll make a call for ya...
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
6,896
Central California
@kimkats, can you bring in the troops that know her filter and know how to clean it? Do you think it's trapped CYA granules?

Can you correct me if I was wrong about the CH test for a vinyl pool (see post above)?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,062
Laughlin, NV
CYA will dissolve if in the flow region of the filter. Has the CYA in the water been tested with a reliable test kit? How much CYA was added and what should that have raised the CYA level to in that pool volume?

From the description and water chemistry, it may be scale. I would suggest flaking some of it off and testing with acid. If scale, you must soak the media in TSP first to remove all oils, then soak in a dilute MA solution to remove the scale.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
6,896
Central California
CYA will dissolve if in the flow region of the filter. Has the CYA in the water been tested with a reliable test kit? How much CYA was added and what should that have raised the CYA level to in that pool volume?

From the description and water chemistry, it may be scale. I would suggest flaking some of it off and testing with acid. If scale, you must soak the media in TSP first to remove all oils, then soak in a dilute MA solution to remove the scale.
@mknauss: Marty, if it's CYA in the filter... She added CYA to get to target, but before she saw her filter. So she's got a possible overdose scenario. Plus, I think she did her calc's on pool store numbers, so there's that. Should she clean out her filter, then do a proper CYA test? Then she'll know where she's at CYA-wise?
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,062
Laughlin, NV
CYA should dissolve in a few days even stuck in a filter.

If it really is CYA on the filter media, you can wash it off with water. Do NOT use acid.
 

Dirk

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Nov 12, 2017
6,896
Central California
Thanks Marty.

Oops, you're a Ken, not a she!! (Or a she named "Ken?") Sorry 'bout that. Your avatar threw me. So if the stuff doesn't hose off, then follow Marty's instructions about scale (scale/calcium fizzes and dissolves when subjected to Muriatic Acid):

From the description and water chemistry, it may be scale. I would suggest flaking some of it off and testing with acid. If scale, you must soak the media in TSP first to remove all oils, then soak in a dilute MA solution to remove the scale.
 

lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
Thanks so much everyone!!
Ya I didn’t mention the she thing as i was so thankful for everybody chipping in with help.
I really do think that I have a total buildup of access stabilizer on the grids from just the pressure caking it onto the DE. It’s crusty and the entire bottom bowl is frill of flakes that are as big as my hand. It does breakup by hand into granular white sand. Surprised the grids have no damage.
I’m going to finish that tomorrow and I will try hot water first to see if that dissolves it. What is the TCP product you mentioned?
Would white vinegar work or too harsh on the filter grids?
I’ll try and take some pictures later.
I have not seen any tears or rips in the grids so that’s a good sign. Just worried about the heater now. But maybe the heat helped in keeping it clear.
Please let me know about the TCP and my other applications with hot water and or vinegar.
Thanks so much!!

ken
 

lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
Also by no means do I have a chemistry background but if the stabilizer was added shortly after the liquid chlorine was introduced would that not promote the two bonding together and solidifying into the crust that I have on the grids?

probably thinking too much.....:)
 

mknauss

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
May 3, 2014
33,062
Laughlin, NV
TSP - Tri Sodium Phosphate. It is used to remove oils from the media. That must be done before you use acid to clean them, or the oil buildup will ruin the media.

Vinegar is possible to use, but you would need many gallons to soak the grids in. And if it is scale, you would need to drain and add fresh vinegar many times to dissolve it all.

The liquid chlorine and CYA powder will not react in that way.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
46,778
Tallahassee, FL
Calcium is not as important for your pool as it is for mine, but I think you still need to keep an eye on it (not 100% sure on that, as I have a plaster pool)
CH is a small part of the overall picture of the water. To have balanced water it is good to know CH to make sure it is not too high or too low. It is NOT as important in a vinyl pool as it is in a plaster pool but it is still helpful to know.

As for getting a good test kit-Royal tire??? Does that ring a bell? I THINK that is where good Taylor Test kits are sold. You want at least a K2006 BUT if you can get your hands on a K2006C that would be even better. Do you live close to the border? or have any one that does? If so you can have a TF-100 sent to them and...................
 
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lights4U

Member
May 29, 2010
15
Ontario, Canada
CH is a small part of the overall picture of the water. To have balanced water it is good to know CH to make sure it is not too high or too low. It is NOT as important in a vinyl pool as it is in a plaster pool but it is still helpful to know.

As for getting a good test kit-Royal tire??? Does that ring a bell? I THINK that is where good Taylor Test kits are sold. You want at least a K2006 BUT if you can get your hands on a K2006C that would be even better. Do you live close to the border? or have any one that does? If so you can have a TF-100 sent to them and...................
Thanks so much everyone!!

Canadian Tire might have those test kits and will look online later this evening.
I just wanted to ask/ review the details of proper cleaning of the Sta-Rite S8D110 vertical grids.
I will test in the morning to see if the crust buildup is calcium or CYA. I really have a feeling that it is CYA.

Back to the Sta-Rite cleaning guidelines for the 13 grid panels: The instructions are well versed in describing the mechanical breakdown and reassembly, but is too vague when suggesting detergent, soap and acid details and proper amounts.
The grids are new and have only been in service for five weeks. We haven’t had a huge swim load within this time frame also.
So just wanted to ask if someone here is familiar with these particular grids and could suggest any further details regarding what type of detergent, brand, mixing ratio and volume of any applicable acids and what kind of soap? Laundry detergent, dish soap etc....
The manual does provide a Canadian number to call Sta-Rite / Pentair but thought I’d ask here first.

ken