Finally starting this project.

[smklaw]

So over the last 5-6 years I have started and stopped the pool building process more times than I care to remember. I have started at least 2 build threads and eventually just let them die off. Well my wife and I found out about 2.5 years ago that we were having our 5th child (first 4 are in college) and modified our master plan. Instead of continuing to remodel our current house we went ahead and found a new 2.75 acre property 3 streets away and decided to buy it and build a house from scratch for the 1st time, our "forever home". Even though I have built lots of houses as an investor, I was not prepared for how difficult the proces has been, especially due to COVID and the insanity in the real estate/construction market, especially in my area. So the house itself started in February and has finally gotten to the stage of finishing framing now. Sloooooowwwww. So I am now devoting a ton of attention to the pool itself, which is probably tough everywhere right now, but it is an insane business around here. I have requested meetings and/or bids form no less than 7 pool companies over the last 4-5 months (one I started with back in January) and as of this past week I only have 2 written bids in hand. Crazy. They both need some tweaking so that I can compare apples to apples, but one of them is getting the job. ie- one did not have the screen in the bid yet. And of course they each highly recommend different brands, Hayward and Pentair. I have no preference on a brand anyways.
So my current concept drawing is attached, with the foilowing changes:

1. we did push the steps out to the end of the tanning ledges
2. we replaced the tweo small benched with one across the entire back
3. we changed the Pentair fire bowls to a 12' raised wall with 3- 2' sheer descents in the face and a 10' long manual light linear fire feature on top (pic attached of the general idea we found on Pinterest.

Thoughts:

• So first, anyone see any glaring issues with the design?
• Both contractors have the spa and water features sharing a pump, but I think that they shoudl be on seperate pump and a seperate filter?
• I have asked both to add and auto PH/acid dosing feature.
• One has "clear view screen enclosure with solid beam construction and 12' openings, no chair rails, stainless hardware, and anbchors away screen track system" other is standard screen enclosure. I just have woods behind me so the larger openign aren't that big a deal to me bu the other fetaures of the first enclosure sound cool. I just realized I don't have a pic of where the pool is going but I will later today and will post later.
• Both included Florida Stucco Pearl, and I have asked them to give option price to change to Florida Stucco Gem or Reserve. I am not completely clear on the differnece yet, other than the Gem Azure and Capri look incerdible in the photos.
• One included Artistc Grantitelock 24 x 24 Pavers, which I know are super expensive, but we love the look. Asked other company to add to their bid instead of standrad Tremron pavers. Trying to get samples to see if Stearling Gray is too hot and if Arctic White is too light.
• Since we have a new little one I asked both companies to price the option to go from 3'-5' depth to either 6' or 7' at deep end.
• The two companies work in different markets in the general SW FL area, and their allowance for tile shows it. One has $6/ft and one has $15/ft. I just got samples from Lightstreams, which was a mistake because now I know my tile is goign to cost me $35/ft. It is simply incerdible looking. They were so cool on the phone and not only exppressed shipped me the 2 colors I requested, but also 2 more that she thought might be possibilities, and expessed shipped it without me asking. Leaning towards Intense Blue. See pic

Ok, so that enough to get started. I promise to update things as they proceed and take lots of pics.

 

[HermanTX]

• So first, anyone see any glaring issues with the design?
• Both contractors have the spa and water features sharing a pump, but I think that they shoudl be on seperate pump and a seperate filter?

Overall it is great.
Just curious, do you really need two entry points? Could you get by with only 1 set of steps?

If you wish to run your water features when in Spa Mode, then it is best to have a separate pump with its own suction from the pool to facilitate that. Also, since you have sheer water feature a small filter would be advantageous to capture any debris.

Will you be with a salt pool? Also, a large cartridge filter on the main circulation pump would be best.
It would be good to list the model of each equipment that they are offering for better feedback.

Also, there are lots of comments on deck jets in the forums. You may wish to search that.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Looks like a nice design. Here are my thoughts.

I would change to Microbrite lights, if using Pentair. Globrites have a propensity for failure and are not well regarded with most people who own them. I have them and am beginning to have issues after only 2 seasons. You may need additional lights if using the Microbrites instead of Globrites, as I believe they do not put out as much light.

I would put all pool lighting in the tanning ledge side, so that none of the lights are shining towards the seating area/house. It can be annoying to look out from the house or sit out around the pool and be blinded.

I would reconsider the 3' or 3-1/2' depth. Mine is 3-1/2' in the shallow end, and I did that because my daughter is a smaller person and I wanted her to be able to stand. She's already grown past that and now I'm walking around on my knees in that end of the pool. I will go 4' min shallow depth on my next pool.

With a 6" deep baja shelf/tanning ledge, there won't be much water over any type of lounger you may use out there. Mine is 9" deep and puts your backside in the water a decent amount, when sitting on the loungers. Don't know if that is important to you, just wanted to mention it. 9' length on the tanning ledge should be great for having loungers, if you are planning on them.

I agree with Herman regarding your spa/water features pump. It is a matter of preference as far as how you want your pool to operate. My PB initially plumbed my pool/spa filter pump to my scuppers, and had a separate pump for my deck jets and bubblers. Well, when I would run my spa, I couldn't run my scuppers. Which annoyed me because I wanted to run the scuppers to have the noise while in the spa. So I had to replumb part of my pad so that I could separate the scuppers and put them on the features pump with a separate automated valve.

Deck jets are noisy. I only run mine when there are kids over and they specifically request them. They are obnoxiously loud when running and carrying on a conversation over them is difficult, or at least not fun. Yours are stated to be laminars, so they may be a little less noisy than a standard deck jet. I would see if your PB has a reference that has them that would show them off to you, so that you at least know what you are in for.

The tile selections look great! Make sure your PB is familiar with installation of glass tile. It takes a little more skill and thought than regular tiles. You will also need to think about thinset color and grout color and how that will affect the look of the tile.

One thing I learned during my build is there is not any type of 'standard' in this industry. Most everything is a matter of opinion. So just make sure you are clear with your builder, or potential builder, as to your opinions and what you want, because if you assume that they will do it one way, they will most assuredly do it some way that you can't even imagine, and it will not align with your wants.

Hayward and Pentair both make good products. I am a Pentair person. Just make sure that everything is of the same manufacturer so that it will work best with the automation.

Good luck!

--Jeff

 

[TampaKathy]

I have woods behind my pool as well...I don't remember how much more the clear view was than a regular screen but whatever it was wasn't worth it to me...I stuck with the regular one.

 

[smklaw]

Been a crazy week with the house (and my day job) and finally have an updated set of specs for the pool. Specs are below and my follow up email. Please comment as you feel approriate. I had also added to my response email that I am really not a difficult person, but being a contract attorney I feel having as much detail as possible will keep things crystal clear throughout the process and stave off any disputes.

Structure:
-‐Permitting/Engineering/Inspections
-‐Excavation of pool and excess dirt to be hauled offsite
-‐Dig/Form/Steel (assumed #3 rebar 12" O.C)
-‐Plumbing of pool per assumed engineering w/2" PVC
-‐Shotcrete pool/ (2) 9x12 sun shelves/steps/swim out bench(s) per supplied drawings (approx 900 sqft)
-‐Pool depth not to exceed 6’
-‐Shotcrete 18” elevated 8x8’ 360 spill spa per drawing
-‐Construction of 12’ long by 18” tall feature wall complete w/(3) 24” long sheer descents on back side of pool beam Note: PPW to construct feature wall and sleeve necessary given vents/hardware for fire feature. Fire feature labor and material to be done by other FL licensed gas contractor
-‐Construction of 140LF concrete footer around perimeter of pool deck complete with block retaining wall not to exceed 2’ in height to accommodate future screen enclosure (stucco and paint by other)
-‐Install 110LF of baby fence on pool deck per spec
-‐Bonding/grounding of pool equipment & shell per FL building code

PPW Standard Pool/Spa Finishes Package:
-‐Labor/material to install Artictic Granitelock Streling Gray paver coping on entire pool beam
-‐Labor/material to install Artictic Granitelock Streling Gray pavers 24x24 and set on entire new pool deck 3,440 sqft (to include under cover area per given drawings)
-‐Install new streamline deck drain on pool deck per drawings
-‐Labor/material to install $15/ft allowance glass waterline tile on pool and spa per spec
-‐Labor/material to install $15/ft allowance glass tile on entire elevated spa face and spillway, and feature wall face and sides per spec
-‐Florida Stucco Silver Pearl pebble finish of all areas below waterline tile
-‐Standard (6) pool returns/(8) spa returns/(1) skimmers/vac line/main drains & pebbletop main drain covers (per code) PPW

Standard Pentair Pool/Spa Equipment Package:
-‐Electrical hookup/sub panel for pool equipment
-‐Intellitouch complete automation w/(2) additional automatic actuators
-‐Screenlogic smartphone compatible complete pool/spa automation
-‐(1) Intelli-‐flo VXF 3HP variable speed pool pump(pool)
-‐(1) Intelli-‐flo VSF 3HP variable speed pool pumps (water features & spa therapy)
-‐Built right 140K BTU electric heat pump
-‐Pentair master temp 400K BTU propane heater(hook up by other)
-‐RP320 quad cartridge complete pool filter
-‐Intellichlor40 salt generated chlorinator
-‐Intelliph automatic acid feeder/stemmer
-‐(2) Glo-‐brite LED color bubblers w/lights package w/transformer(s)
-‐(5) Microbrite LED color pool/spa lights w/ transformer(s) per spec
-‐(4) Magicstream Laminar LED jets per plans
-‐1.5HP spa blower
-‐Pool auto-‐fill/overflow line
-‐Homeowner “Pool School” tutorial -‐30-‐day chemical balance/pool start up from C.O.

Screen enclosure:
-‐Labor/material to provide and install bronze screen enclosure on new paver deck/footer (20x86x38) w/12’ high eves per given plans
-‐No chair rail
-‐7” super gutter drainage along house perimeter
-‐(2) screen doors
-‐(2) 4x4 paver door pads

AboveProposal to NOT include the following:
-‐Extra gravel for dewatering above one yard per 70 sqft
-‐Replacement of sod/irrigation/landscaping damage as a result of construction
-‐Drilling/hammering of piles
-‐Excess fill dirt to bring pool deck elevation up to within 4” of finished elevation
-‐Retaining wall exceeding 2’ in height
-‐Site and/or spot surveys
-‐Umbrellas and/or pool accessories not listed within this proposal
-‐Fencing
-‐Ground rock removal in which requires hammer attachment
-‐Site Surveys
-‐Contractor/homeowner to provide power/water/clear access to jobsite

I have now responded withe the following:

1. Pool- Thanks for adding no deeper than 6’, but would it be the same to do 4’ at shallow end to 6’ at deep end? We just think 3’ is going to be useless very quickly, especially with the sun shelves. Are these measurements actual water or to tile or to patio?
2. Sun shelves
   
   1. I would like to make them with 9” of actual water, but need advice as to if that would require us adding a step on the shelve as I am estimating the step down would then be approx. 14”?
   2. Still need to add the 2 umbrella sleeves in shelves to proposal
3. Spa- Tile allowance says on entire elevated spa face and spillways (and the feature wall), but I would like to get more detail so we are not off a ton of sq footage. Mainly because I am likely going to go with he Lightstreams tile and it is between $30-35/ft. They sent me samples and its incredible stuff. Does that basically mean the top as well as the inside and outside walls to the bottom level of the sun shelf? Since it’s a 360 spillover I would think the outside is a given (or lets make it so), but I would like to specify how far down on the inside of the spa. I am thinking all the way to the bench. Basically your entire back would be against tile.
4. Feature Wall- I would like to do the Artistic Pavers on the top, which will not end up being a lot of sq footage as we have to leave an opening for the fire feature. I will get the fire feature picked out asap so we have actual dimensions.
5. Screen Enclosure- The following is a list of specs and features I would like to know if your screen guy uses or can use, and of course open to suggestions.
   
   1. I saw no chair rail and I didn’t ask for panoramic as I don’t have a view, but what are the approximate opening sizes?
   2. Does this include Superscreen?
   3. I need either a double door (preferred), or an oversized door on the west side with a big dog door (13 x 20) that does come in bronze. If he uses PCA for doors they have a double French door with an astragal kit and all the features I am listing below (I spoke to them).
   4. Please note that we will need steps outside the doors as we are not bringing the grade up to the patio.
   5. I would like a Tasman locking handle set on both door openings
   6. I would like the beefed up doors with full piano hinges and weather stripping/felt all the way around.
   7. Does this include Superscreen?
   8. Does he use 6005 aluminum alloy with the 5052-H32 alloy gusset plates?
   9. I would like something like an “EZ Drain” in bottom of frame to drain water better. That was just one brand that I saw. This is more of a question than a requirement. Might be a stupid idea since I have pavers. I drilled holes in my last spraycrete deck to get the water out. 4 dogs worth of hair clog everything.
   10. I would like to use either all Nylo-Tec screws (or comparable), but have also seen a system that you don’t see the screws at the bottom at all. It was some kind of cover I think. I do have a friend who replaced his with Nylo-Tec himself and looks awesome, and really was very inexpensive.

 

[kimkats]

going to go with he Lightstreams tile

Everything is VERY well thought out.

I do have to jump in on the above to say that lightstream is VERY beautiful BUT (bet you guessed that was coming) they have VERY stringent installation requirements. There are not many installers who will or can follow them. Add to that they tend to have supply issues even before Covid with a long lead time from order to shipment. I DO want you to get those tiles so wanted to give you a heads up on how to go forward with them.

 

[smklaw]

This house is going to kill me. Just now getting done with drywall. Changed out the glass tile with NPT Equinox Midnight. The glass tile just wasn't worth the trouble, in my humble opinion. Picture shows the patio paver (wet and dry), roof tile, pool tile and fireplace fire brick.
My most pressing issue now is the pool finish. The quote includes Florida Stucco Silver Pearl, but I was just quoted for an upgrade to StoneScapes Touch of Glass: Aqua White with 2 extra bags of cobalt blue glass - $7500. Ouch, but I think I will get the medium to dark blue color I want. Thoughts?
Update pics. Have a ton more but I have to reduce every one so I will upload more tomorrow.

 

[kimkats]

Changed out the glass tile with NPT Equinox Midnight.

OH I LOVES that tile!!! One of my favs for sure!!

Here a couple of things to think about with it. What color of mastic under it...........say what?? It comes in white, off white, gray. Each color can change the look of the tile. It is best to get some paint color sample cards with the above colors and sit the tile on them by the pool to see which one you like best.

THEN there is the grout color. White will make each tile pop where light to medium gray will blend them together more. Your PB should have grout color sticks to use to to see which color you like the best. BOTH look great so it is just picking out which one YOU and YOURS likes the best.

 

[smklaw]

Sorry, but this house is going to kill me and I have not posted is such a long time my thread went inactive. Just now getting done with drywall. Changed out the glass tile with NPT Equinox Midnight. The glass tile just wasn't worth the trouble, in my humble opinion. Picture shows the patio paver (wet and dry) which we picked in a 24" x 24", roof tile, pool tile and fireplace fire brick.
My most pressing issue now is the pool finish. The quote includes Florida Stucco Silver Pearl, but I was just quoted for an upgrade to StoneScapes Touch of Glass: Aqua White with 2 extra bags of cobalt blue glass - $7500. Ouch, but I think I will get the medium to dark blue color I want. Thoughts?
Update pics which I will try to continue to post.

 

[smklaw]

Construction pics. We are at stem wall now.

 

[smklaw]

The plumbing just amazes me

 

[smklaw]

a few more and then we are up to date
Considering tiling the entire tanning ledge???
Already decided to tile the entire inside of the jacuzzi and down the outside all the way to the tanning ledges.
We did decide to go with 9" of water on the ledges so we had to add small corner steps which will be enlarged by the tile guys. Not even sure you can see in the pics.

 

[smklaw]

OH I LOVES that tile!!! One of my favs for sure!!

Here a couple of things to think about with it. What color of mastic under it...........say what?? It comes in white, off white, gray. Each color can change the look of the tile. It is best to get some paint color sample cards with the above colors and sit the tile on them by the pool to see which one you like best.

THEN there is the grout color. White will make each tile pop where light to medium gray will blend them together more. Your PB should have grout color sticks to use to to see which color you like the best. BOTH look great so it is just picking out which one YOU and YOURS likes the best.

I'll take all the advice I can get. Going to text him right now. Had planned to use a gray grout, but your are right in that I need to see them together. TY

 

[kimkats]

Oh the BLING of the whole ledge being tile!!! Sigh..............so pretty and sparkly! Just know it might push the price up a bit due to the labor involved. BUT it will be So worth it to me!

 

[smklaw]

Its been a while since I updated this, but I have had more delays and a serious curve ball. They set my equipment the beginning of Christmas week and then it was stolen Christmas Eve. UGH
Pool Contractor let me purchase the replacement equipment direct from the distributor to help as much as possible as it wasn't really his problem. He says good news is I now have the new i3 pumps. Hooray (serious sarcasm).
Such a shame as it was such a pretty install
Update photos below. They are going to have to raise the feature wall higher as the access door for the gas regulator and key valve for the fire feature won't fit. Going from 12" to 18" high.
Absolutely love the tile
Question- I am currently specified out for the Pentair acid injector, but my pool guy says he is getting good long term feedback on the UV sterilizer and the estimated reduction on the Salt Cell from 50% to 20%. Any thoughts???

 

[smklaw]

More photos of progress

 

[smklaw]

Pool equipment install and after theft of most of it

 

[PoolStored]

UV sterilizer

Tell him, politely, NO.

 

[smklaw]

More progress on deck and wall to hold the waterfalls and my 10' fire trough
They spent a ton of time making sure we were solid to the shell and stem wall before doing any tile. Spent a full day with a long pipe and hose going all around the shell and entire perimeter of the stem wall in order to preclude any future settling of the pavers.

 

[PoolStored]

I am currently specified out for the Pentair acid injector

Is it a Pentair Intellichem? ORP sensors do not work well with CYA >30. And you will want CYA 60-80 with SWCG in FL. Some good reading here:

Pentair IntelliChem - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com