FINALLY: Pool Renno Ongoing -- Questions for All

[Dutiful Daughter]

Hi --

I've popped up here before. My father died, my mother was left with the pool -- and we were all ready to renno (pool is 56 years old now I believe) and Covid hit. Anyway -- fast forward. The PB is basically locked in and we are moving forward. But a few questions.

(1) Automatic chlorine dispensers and UV systems? The PB wants to put one of these in. Any tips here on what to ask? And whether to do it at all (salt water pool is not an option here in this part of Oregon -- no one does them)
(2) Low Voltage lights along the side? We are swimmers, so want to use the pool at night -- the PB says the new way of doing it is 3 low voltage lights across the side of the pool to light across all of it. Does this work well?
(3) Finish. So, Plaster is included in the minimum bid -- to upgrade to a polished finish (its not hydrazzo, but I forget the name -- is similar -- a polished surface) Is $12,000. The plaster has a 5 year guarantee and the polished finish is 10, but the PB basically said he doesn't see durability differences. Thoughts?

all of my photos are on prior threads -- any help linking those back too would be great! Thanks for the help!

 

[Texas Splash]

I'll go backwards and let someone else speak to number 3. For item number 2, yes. The small 3.5" LEDs are quite common now and work well. That's what I have. For number 1, no UV if this is an outdoor pool and the water gets decent sun. No added benefits. Tab feeder, usually no because they increase your CYA level too quickly. A SWG would be ideal. You could always just tell him you will add liquid chlorine manually, then hire someone later to install an SWG like a Circupool model. Just ask the builder to leave a good length of plumbing after the filter just in case. If the builder gives you static, let them install the tab feeder and you can cut it out later like I did.

 

[Newdude]

If the builder gives you static, let them install the tab feeder and you can cut it out later like I did.

For once I will disagree with Pat. If the builder demands he spend my money on something I don't want, I would remove it and 'store' it somewhere free of UV.

Salt pools are always an option and they are the awsome-est option ever. There is no special needed skill to install it, just standard issue plumbing/electric. You will handle the usage (which we'll teach you) so all the PB has to do it hook it up.

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

Hi --

It sounds like we should pass on the auto-chlorine/UV offer and just do it the old fashioned way.

I'm glad the low voltage lights will let us swim

I like the SW concept -- but I am not local and I don't see a practical path to SWG. My 85 year old mother needs someone else to handle pool maintenance. There are 0 pool maintenance people in the area who do SW I've asked now for about 3-4 years and we are not aware of a single pool, technician, installer, pool cleaning folk etc who know anything about salt generators. My sibling, who lives in the area, is happy to help w/ chlorine levels, but not interested in a new system.

So really looking for the best/lowest effective chlorine options.

I've re-attached the plans and I'll see if I can get some updated pics.

the below is the general plan -- the right is the arbel paver/coping scheme we will use (it matches the front yard that was redone 7 years ago).

Other questions:

Again: finish -- I know this is hotly debated, and we are getting the guy to quote us what it would cost to replaster -- but between a polished finish and plaster -- with children heavily using the pool -- is there any real benefit?

Vortex covers: @kimkats, I remember you had a cover you liked that matched the bottom surface -- is this still a fave?

Robot cleaners: I can't remember -- is this a good option these days?

 

[Texas Splash]

I'll just recap the chlorine issue one more time to there are no misunderstandings. In the summer, the pool needs chlorine each and everyday. How you feed the pool chlorine is up to you. It will either be: adding liquid chlorine each day, using a tab feeder, or with a salt water generator. Liquid is good with no side effects. Only down side is someone needs to buy it frequently and add x-amount each day in the summer. Tab feeders are convenient, but tabs are a acidic. They lower the TA and pH while increasing the CYA. Those require carefully testing. Last is the SWG. Fairly easy to install and once set, takes every little effort. It runs itself. There are several DIY friendly versions out there.

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

I'm going to show my age/ignorance -- what about the granular chlorine? We grew up using the granular, then testing, and then adjusting. Lots of testing.

 

[Texas Splash]

what about the granular chlorine?

They are just another method of adding free chlorine. Problem with those is like the tabs, they increase the stabilizer CYA level quite fast. Not ideal for season long chlorinating.

 

[Texas Splash]

The one thing that might allow you to use powers and tabs a bit longer than others is where you live. If you receive a lot of rain and find yourself draining a lot of water, that will help prevent the CYA from getting too high when using those products.

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

Oregon -- we rust. . . .

 

[Texas Splash]

Here at TFP, we generally discourage the long-term use of powders and tablets for the CYA (increase) reasons. To be fair, there are a few pols across the country who see a LLOT of water exchange or have very short seasons, so they squeak-by using tabs before the CYA level gets too high. SWGs have become today's most popular method of chlorination because once installed, they are basically effort-free other than water testing and maybe adjusting the SWG settings. SWGs, if cared for properly, can last about 5 years or so (give or take). They have become more popular because the costs of liquid chlorine and tablets have really increased.

It's a personal choice at this point, and something to consider based on your builder's wishes. You can always add a SWG later, just be sure the builder leaves adequate room in the plumbing (after the filter) later to make an install easier. Look in my signature and you'll my RJ-45 SWG install. I removed my tab feeder to install the SWG. Hope that helps.

 

[mknauss]

Likely the 'granular' chlorine you remember was Calcium Hypochlorite. In the past the water was 'shocked' weekly or every few days. Algae was common and you then 'super shocked' the water. You have a sand filter and weekly large back washes kept the calcium hardness under control.

You can do that. Horrible to swim in. So if this pool will not be used, it is a method. But if you plan to actually use it, a SaltWater Chlorine Generator makes swimming so much more pleasant.

 

[kimkats]

HI DD!! I found and reread you past threads! I then merged them all over here for all to read the full story of your pool/yard! I encourage everyone to start at page one and read. She has some wonderful pictures of the front yard that is oh so pretty! If the backyard ends up looking anything like like the front it will be a showpiece!

Kim

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

Its actually happening now. Quite a journey. We decided on using a cartridge filter to replace the sand. 1 June is the contractual deadline for everything, so it should be ready for the summer. The removal of the old concrete decking should take place in the next few weeks and then they will start re-piping the pool. And the same landscape architect who did the front is doing the back -- so they should mirror each other. The lights are already purchased - supply chain issues so he ordered them several months ago and they are now waiting.

Two skimmers as per earlier discussions.

We just have to get the finish confirmed. Leaning towards just classic plaster. Smooth and no issues w/ the kids. It will be a swimmers pool. Pretty, but practical also. Then need to sort the vortex cover, come to a decision on the chlorine.

and yes mknauss, that sounds right. We've always back-flushed the pool. But with a new cartridge system, that will end.

My brother is checking agin on the SWG point -- but its just not supported in our part of Oregon.

Are we missing anything else?

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

PS-- the "before" photos are on p3 --

 

[mknauss]

If you do not change your chlorinating method, you will still need to do large drain and refills to control either calcium or CYA.

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

OK --

I've gone back through all of the various threads.

(1) We have asked for an increase in the number of returns in the pool (thanks to bmoreswim for his assistance on this before)
(2) Making the change to cartridge filter (I would keep the sand -- but my sibling is happy to manage the cartrdge filter)
(3) Proposed equipment: Aquastar Cartridge, Pentair 400,000 BTU heater (Mastertemp), Variable Speed and Flow pump
(4) Upgrades: Pentair Intellichem, Purity UVC UV light (and asking about SWG -- but seriously, no one has ever done in Oregon of which we are aware -- being the guinea pig here seems daunting)
(5) Proposal for Minipebble with Jewels for Pools Glass (worth the upgrade?) We have kids and I want smooth. . . . but really we like our classic plaster.

Landscape folks are going to first of all remove all of the concrete decking around the pool (and the coping I believe)

1. PB will replace all of the piping the goes under and beside the pool.
2. PB will replumb the equipment room and install new equipment
3. PB will add the returns and skimmer
4. Replace with vortex cover (or channel cover -- finishing questions remain below)
5. PB will put in 3 low voltage lights -- these will just be an on/off connected to the pool. We decided not to try and create a zone w/ the landscape lighting for now -- that will be independent.
6. While the decking is up -- we will also installl large conduitp ipes for electrical and outside internet wiring
7. Then the pool will be resurfaced (plaster or an upgrade) with new water line tiles
8. Coping and decking will then be the Belgard sytem using the natural Mega-Arbels with installed lighting.
9. Diving board will be installed. We decided to not replace the slide.

A second stand-alone area will feature a stand-alone commercial spa semi-recessed into a deck that is next to some sliding doors.

Taking all recommendations still for:

Equipment?
Surfacing?
automation?
Extras?

 

[Texas Splash]

I would save your money and not get the UV. It's not going to do anything for you. If you don't get an SWG, you'll still need some method of true chlorination, either by using a tab feeder or adding liquid chlorine. The money you save could be put to better use like a robot cleaner for example.

 

[tommelton]

Oregon weather - what water temps are you willing to use to use the pool at? And do you plan to close the pool during the winter (I presume so)? SWG will not function under about 50 degrees - so if you happen to keep the pool open past that water temp - you will be manually chlorinating somehow - either a floating puck holder or with liquid chlorine. Just another thing to think about.

 

[Dutiful Daughter]

Tommelton -that is helpful. Its often below 50 in the mornings and in the fall -- and the pool is open through the fall. Thanks.

 

[tommelton]

Note - that is 50 degrees WATER temperature, not air. Do you plan for a pool heater?