filter lid came off, pump motor doesn't work now - trips breaker

[DanSDPool]

I have a couple problems right now - pump motor is tripping the breaker and I think it burned out when the filter lid came off last night.
I went to my pool last night and saw quite a bit of water loss - way below the skimmer.

The pool lid was off so I assume the pump expelled water from the filter housing until the pump burned out.
I think I smelled something like burnt electrical stuff at the time, but I wasn't sure.

Visually everything looks ok at the pump equipment. Inside of filter housing looks fine.

Of course one problem is why the lid blew off - I'll tackle that after I figure out what's wrong with the motor.
I'm thinking/hoping it was due to it being cold that night and I usually don't run the pump at night.
Maybe I didn't tighten the lid ring enough? I remember trying to do the minimum (it was a couple months ago)

I have two breakers in line of the pump - one at the house panel (50A) and one at the pool panel (15A). The pool panel breaker was tripped this morning.

After I reset the pool panel breaker, (and of course put the filter back together)...
1 turn on pump relay
2 hear click of pump relay but the motor makes no sound
3 breaker trips

I'm going to take the power wires off the pump and test with a voltmeter - but I'm pretty sure its the motor (or pump).

could there be other issues causing this - for example are there any parts in the pump body that could be siezed up?
its a whisperflo

 

[Texas Splash]

One hypothesis is the motor overheated due to loss of water (prime) and caused internal damage. Whether it's repairable is another story. You can open up the motor from behind and inspect, look for charred wiring or any other obvious defects. There may be damage not visible as well. You might also check the inlet/outlet areas of the pump & PVC to ensure those areas didn't warp as well. Also reach inside at the impeller to see if it moves freely. It's possible the impeller/diffuser areas warped and are binding inside (stuck) causing the breaker to trip.

 

[1poolman1]

I have a couple problems right now - pump motor is tripping the breaker and I think it burned out when the filter lid came off last night.
I went to my pool last night and saw quite a bit of water loss - way below the skimmer.

The pool lid was off so I assume the pump expelled water from the filter housing until the pump burned out.
I think I smelled something like burnt electrical stuff at the time, but I wasn't sure.

Visually everything looks ok at the pump equipment. Inside of filter housing looks fine.

Of course one problem is why the lid blew off - I'll tackle that after I figure out what's wrong with the motor.
I'm thinking/hoping it was due to it being cold that night and I usually don't run the pump at night.
Maybe I didn't tighten the lid ring enough? I remember trying to do the minimum (it was a couple months ago)

I have two breakers in line of the pump - one at the house panel (50W) and one at the pool panel (15W). The pool panel breaker was tripped this morning.

After I reset the pool panel breaker, (and of course put the filter back together)...
1 turn on pump relay
2 hear click of pump relay but the motor makes no sound
3 breaker trips

I'm going to take the power wires off the pump and test with a voltmeter - but I'm pretty sure its the motor (or pump).

could there be other issues causing this - for example are there any parts in the pump body that could be siezed up?
its a whisperflo

Sorry to hear about those problems. Inspect the filter tank and clamp carefully. Unfortunately, when a tank comes apart like that is more likely to do it again in the future unless it was just the bolt that failed (you don't say which filter you have).

Usually a filter is very close to the pump motor. When a filter comes apart the huge flow of water can pour right onto the motor, be sucked into it from the front ventilation openings/fan and destroy the motor, especially a standard single-speed motor, they're not sealed in any way. If you smelled electrical burn, probably the motor shorted at the wiring.

You can check if the motor is seized by removing the shaft cover over the rear of the motor an trying to spin it, but it likely will spin freely.

 

[DanSDPool]

Sorry to hear about those problems. Inspect the filter tank and clamp carefully. Unfortunately, when a tank comes apart like that is more likely to do it again in the future unless it was just the bolt that failed (you don't say which filter you have).

thanks for the info...I'm wondering what would make it more likely to pop again in my situation? Is it something to do with the filter body, lid or ring? Could I replace a part to make it less likely? The setup seemed fine for a couple months after cleaning so it seems strange it would just decide to pop like that. The filter is a Pentair CnC plus Cartridge Filter. It has a compression ring that fits over the lid and body.
The bolt was still attached to the ring. The threads seem ok. Also - I tap around the ring with a rubber mallet to set it when assembling the filter - I think that's proper procedure. I'm a little unsure of how tight to tighten the bolt. After cleaning I tighten it and then make sure there's no leaks when I turn on the pump (standing far away from the filter)

 

[Texas Splash]

Besides the mechanical concern for the lid mating properly to the lower body, did you happen to notice any unusual pressure increases as of late? Notice a change is water pressure at the return jets or the filter gauge abnormally high? Any chance someone bumped a 3-way valve after the filter essentially cutting-off water flow after the filter?

 

[DanSDPool]

Besides the mechanical concern for the lid mating properly to the lower body, did you happen to notice any unusual pressure increases as of late? Notice a change is water pressure at the return jets or the filter gauge abnormally high? Any chance someone bumped a 3-way valve after the filter essentially cutting-off water flow after the filter?

no I haven't noticed anything unusual like that and the water routing valves look ok.

I did add shock to the pool that day...and that's why I was running the pump at the time. I added the shock gradually by mixing it with water in a bucket, and then dumped several bucket loads into the strainer. I forgot about that...but was thinking maybe the shock wasn't mixed well and plugged up the filter cartridges enough to cause too much pressure? Plus the water itself wasn't too clear from some algae build up and I had agitated the water with a wire brush. Maybe too much load on the filter at one time?

 

[1poolman1]

thanks for the info...I'm wondering what would make it more likely to pop again in my situation? Is it something to do with the filter body, lid or ring? Could I replace a part to make it less likely? The setup seemed fine for a couple months after cleaning so it seems strange it would just decide to pop like that. The filter is a Pentair CnC plus Cartridge Filter. It has a compression ring that fits over the lid and body.
The bolt was still attached to the ring. The threads seem ok. Also - I tap around the ring with a rubber mallet to set it when assembling the filter - I think that's proper procedure. I'm a little unsure of how tight to tighten the bolt. After cleaning I tighten it and then make sure there's no leaks when I turn on the pump (standing far away from the filter)

Is this a 4-cartridge filter? When a lid pops off past the clamp, especially if the bolt is still in place, it can deform the clamp. It can also weaken the tank top. The bolt is tightened until all the spring coils are touching tightly. Instructions should be on the clamp itself.

Check for a "dead head" condition, something blocking the return line after the filter.

 

[DanSDPool]

When a lid pops off past the clamp, especially if the bolt is still in place, it can deform the clamp. It can also weaken the tank top. The bolt is tightened until all the spring coils are touching tightly. Instructions should be on the clamp itself.

Check for a "dead head" condition, something blocking the return line after the filter.

yes 4 cartridge CnC Pentair 240 (smallest lid). I forgot about one thing - A little before this I had added shock to the skimmer (diluted in several buckets of water). I'm wondering if that could have overloaded the filter if I didn't mix it enough?

Would I be able to see the deformation in the clamp? I assume if the top is weakened its not something I could visually inspect - other than obvious cracks.

I'm thinking of getting this motor protective housing after this incident (I'll make sure to install it with the vents facing down unlike one of their pictures...)

Pentair Universal Protective Swimming Pool and Spa Pump Motor Cover - R221016 - INYOPools.com

R221016 - COVER MOTOR #325 (R221016)

www.inyopools.com

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

I'm going to infer from what I've read in this thread that your filter filled with air when the pump ran out of water. Unlike water, air is compressible so the pressure can really build unless the air has somewhere to escape. Perhaps you had a blockage. The air pressure blew your filter apart. I would replace the entire filter because I wouldn't trust it to be secure anymore.

 

[1poolman1]

Chemicals should never be added to the skimmer with the exception of cyanuric acid (even that may clog the plumbing if added too fast). Not likely that caused the lid to pop, though.
That cover wouldn't protect against the amount of water coming from a filter, it is more a shade over the motor, but not really needed in San Diego.
If I were servicing your pool and found the filter lid had blown, I couldn't place the filter back in service without accepting a huge amount of liability if it came apart again, which it may well do. Best, safest, option is a new filter.

 

[DanSDPool]

I did an inspection of the skimmer float valve...the door was broken and obstructing the suction side outlet.
I was glad at least the door didn't go down the pipe.
at least I think that opening is the suction side?...the pool has a main drain feeding into the skimmer, but I think the suction outlet is the furthest from the pool wall.

I guess that might be a reason the filter lid popped - either that or the door broke/got wedged during this incident due to another cause.
I need to inspect that more often. might have helped to eliminate or narrow down this problem.

 

[Texas Splash]

I could see the diverter flap inhibiting suction flow to some degree, but not causing an increase in pressure or somehow influencing the lid to blow off. It's starting to sounds more & more like there's a mechanical issue with the filter mating surfaces. As Poolman noted, be very careful at this point. Once pressurized, those things come apart like a small bomb and can really cause some damage or injury if someone is nearby.

 

[DanSDPool]

I could see the diverter flap inhibiting suction flow to some degree, but not causing an increase in pressure or somehow influencing the lid to blow off. It's starting to sounds more & more like there's a mechanical issue with the filter mating surfaces. As Poolman noted, be very careful at this point. Once pressurized, those things come apart like a small bomb and can really cause some damage or injury if someone is nearby.

Yes it could be the filter itself I agree...and even if the filter wasn't the cause its compromised now.

Its just a theory ...but when I first noticed the incident the pool was drained well below the skimmer.
So the skimmer float valve must have been engaged for a while - maybe due to the inhibited flow?
Maybe this allowed some air into the system if the float valve wasn't sealing 100%?

I've heard of incidents where the build up of air is only noticed after the pump turns off.

 

[Poolbreh]

What was added into the skimmer? Calcium hypochlorite? Do you have an inline tab feeder?

 

[DanSDPool]

What was added into the skimmer? Calcium hypochlorite? Do you have an inline tab feeder?

yes calcium hypochlorite - 1lb bag of granular HTH Super Shock "4-in-1" product 52019. It says 56.44% Calcium Hypochlorite.
I use a chorine float with 3" tablets.

I put the shock in gradually by mixing some in a bucket with water. And did that several times.
I was out there for a while after doing that and didn't notice an issue.
I went inside and a while later heard something - I thought it was a squirrel or small animal on my metal trellis.
Not sure that was the filter, but it made me go outside and check. Everything was done by that time.

I just took apart the filter - it definitely needed to be cleaned.

Last time I checked the filter pressure it seemed fine. But that was several days before the incident.

 

[1poolman1]

Yes it could be the filter itself I agree...and even if the filter wasn't the cause its compromised now.

Its just a theory ...but when I first noticed the incident the pool was drained well below the skimmer.
So the skimmer float valve must have been engaged for a while - maybe due to the inhibited flow?
Maybe this allowed some air into the system if the float valve wasn't sealing 100%?

I've heard of incidents where the build up of air is only noticed after the pump turns off.

I did an inspection of the skimmer float valve...the door was broken and obstructing the suction side outlet.
I was glad at least the door didn't go down the pipe.
at least I think that opening is the suction side?...the pool has a main drain feeding into the skimmer, but I think the suction outlet is the furthest from the pool wall.

I guess that might be a reason the filter lid popped - either that or the door broke/got wedged during this incident due to another cause.
I need to inspect that more often. might have helped to eliminate or narrow down this problem.

The clog in the suction port could cause any small air leak to become magnified as the pump continues to try to draw water. It had to be pulling some water as a pool pump won't compress air on its own. Compressed air and an improperly tightened clamp could have caused the issue. Just a guess without actually seeing it.