Expansion Joint problems.

pooler73

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Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
I need suggestions. My lame pool builder did not allow for an adequate expansion space between my stone coping and concrete slab. This is my first time to replace the caulking and I am finding there is no gap. The caulking is simply laid across the top in some areas. Any suggestions on how to cut in a gap? In some places, water will not even drain between them.20200917_173458.jpg20200917_173638.jpg20200917_175012.jpg
 

Jimrahbe

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You may not have a gap, but keep in mind that normally they stick a foam spacer between the coping and the concrete.. It tends to look a lot like concrete.. I'd double check to make sure.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

pooler73

Member
Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
I need suggestions. My lame pool builder did not allow for an adequate expansion space between my stone coping and concrete slab. This is my first time to replace the caulking and I am finding there is no gap. The caulking is simply laid across the top in some areas. Any suggestions on how to cut in a gap? In some places, water will not even drain between them.View attachment 163026View attachment 163027View attachment 163028
Pretty sure there is no foam either. There was a bit of disagreement between the concrete company and the pool stone guy. This is the result. I have several cracks in the stone grouting thanks to this. I want to open the gap, insert the foam, and properly caulk it. I've tried to get the pool company to quote it twice.....to no avail. I think they know.
 

ajw22

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If you are certain the joint is concrete then determine where the edge of the bond beam is so you don’t cut into it and use a concrete saw to plunge cut along the edge for the joint.
 
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pooler73

Member
Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
If you are certain the joint is concrete then determine where the edge of the bond beam is so you don’t cut into it and use a concrete saw to plunge cut along the edge for the joint.
So please forgive me not knowing but does a vinyl pool have a bond beam? I remember them pouring concrete at the bottom of the walls and then back filling but would there be any kind of bond beam at the top?
 

ajw22

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So please forgive me not knowing but does a vinyl pool have a bond beam? I remember them pouring concrete at the bottom of the walls and then back filling but would there be any kind of bond beam at the top?
Before we continue please create your signature with details of your pool and equipment so we are all on the same page.

You likely do not an expansion joint. Your coping is not laid on the top of the pool walls. It should be laid on the ground next to the wall and cantilevered over the pool wall.

@jimmythegreek what do you think?
 

pooler73

Member
Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
Added the signature. Thanks! I believe you are correct that is laid on a gravel (?)base cantilevered over the wall. So were you saying I likely don't have an expansion joint?
 

pooler73

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Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
Yes......there is no gap between the concrete deck surface and my stone coping.....like I believe there should be. Therefore due to expansion and contractions it is cracking the grout between the stones. So in the diagram you referred to.....I have no expansion joint.
 

ajw22

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This is what you have...

 

pooler73

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Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
Hmm.....maybe. I will take a picture from inside the pool tomorrow so you can see the inside edge. I know I see a whole lot of grout under the stone from jnside the pool.

So if that's the case, then what is the joint where all the caulking is cracking and coming out of?
 

ajw22

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Post wider pictures of your deck and pool.
 

pooler73

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Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
Maybe these will help. I found some construction pictures. So obviously there is concrete under the stone to lock in the top of the walls. But then you will see the stone coping was laid......and the concrete crew poured concrete right up to the stones, with no gap. IMG951457.jpgIMG_20150918_160645.jpg
 

ajw22

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Seeing those pics helps. You probably need to sawcut an expansion joint on the edge of the gravel.

Show me pics of the areas with cracks.
 

pooler73

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Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
I will get you some photos of that a bit later today. In then radius corners do you think a Rotozip tool with a diamond cutter would be able to work? I figure the sandstone will cut easier than the concrete. Its just frustrating that the contractors did a Crud job and back then i didn't know better to catch it.
 

Jimrahbe

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It seems to me that the concrete ring around the pool is wider than the coping stones.. If it is, then how thick is the concrete right next to the coping.. Seems it would be a very thin. Only the thickness of the coping and laying on top of the already poured concrete ring..???

Maybe that is how it is supposed to be, but it just does not look right to me..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

ajw22

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You need to decouple the material sitting on the concrete collar from material sitting on the gravel. Those two areas may move independently.

So you need to cut the expansion joint where the concrete deck is on the gravel. If you cut the sandstone and the concrete deck is lying on the concrete collar then you may not have fixed anything. You need to figure out where the collar and gravel joint lies under the sandstone and concrete deck.
 

pooler73

Member
Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
I believe you are probably correct. See i think the main problem is the concrete contractor did not know what he was doing around a pool. He was part of the larger, overall construction project and this got lumped in his task. The pool builder stone mason was on a tight schedule so he went ahead and laid the stones before the concrete was poured for the deck. That was not their normal process but thats what happend. So ultimately the concrete crew screwed this up. Now I get to try to fix it as best as I can to prevent further problems. We have so much new home construction here in Nashville right now that contractors don't want to mess with small projects like this. The housing market is just crazy here right now. 20200919_103203_resized.jpg20200919_103152_resized.jpg20200919_103133_resized.jpg20200919_103119_resized.jpg20200919_103203_resized.jpg20200919_103152_resized.jpg20200919_103133_resized.jpg20200919_103119_resized.jpg20200919_103203_resized.jpg20200919_103152_resized.jpg20200919_103133_resized.jpg20200919_103119_resized.jpg
 

ajw22

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Those don’t look like expansion joint cracks. Most of your cracks are in the mortar between stones and along the edge. That is shrinkage and thermal expansion/contraction that you see in lots of stone work. You also have some concrete cracks by the handrail and in a corner that is typical of thin concrete.
 

pooler73

Member
Sep 17, 2020
13
Nashville, TN
Do you think it would still be worth while to cut in an expansion joint? If so should it be deeper than the stine coping or should it just be a "control joint" and not as deep?