Excessive water restriction in gas heater?

chicoDaMan

Member
Sep 19, 2017
12
Santa Rosa, California
Hi -

"Just the facts, ma'am..." ;)

My brother has a 10,000 gallon uncovered shaded pool at his personal and rental home in Mexico with a Pentair Intelliflo VSF pump, Hayward Pro Series 3.1 sq.ft. sand filter and a 480 sq.ft. roof-mounted solar hot water array three stories above the pool. The solar array works great, but he also employs an old Mass brand "Mass Ter Cal 150" gas heater to make up for heat loss due to cool winter nighttime temps (for rental clients who like a dip first thing in the morning).

The gas heater had been plumbed in years ago with 1" copper pipe, but recently a local provider swapped out the copper pipe for 1.5" CPVC (as spec'd by the manufacturer). Both the old copper and new CPVC pipes had/have (in addition to the elbows common to all flow paths) a total of eight additional 90-degree elbows in the intake and outflow paths, due to the layout of the components located in a small underground equipment room adjacent to the pool. The pump is roughly four feet lower than the water surface of the pool. The gas heater is adjacent to the pool pump.

I came down to visit recently and upon inspection we wondered if the gas heater was excessively restricting water flow.

With the pump in filter mode and bypassing the solar and gas heating systems, the pump consumes about 145 watts at a 20 gpm pump setting. This seems reasonable to me.
IMG_8515.JPG

With the solar panels enabled, the pump consumes around 300 watts. This too seems reasonable considering the height of the panels, the 1.5" feed and return PVC pipe sizes, and a fair number of elbows in the flow path. As I mentioned, the solar panel system functions very well.
IMG_8513.JPG

However, when we close the gas heater bypass valve to route water ONLY through the gas heater, the pump electrical consumption rises to 525 watts at 20 gpm, up from 145 watts when the heater is bypassed. (20 gpm is the minimum flow specified by the heater manufacturer).
IMG_8525.JPG

My brother tells me this seems to be significantly higher electrical consumption than he recalls before the 1" copper pipe was replaced with 1.5" CPVC. The pump is audibly working hard to maintain the specified flow and he says he does not recall that being the case previously. (We agree that memory can't always be trusted in such things...:cautious:)

The plumbing appears to be correct. My question is whether there may be excessive restriction in the heat exchange unit. I can't imagine that the manifold would restrict the water flow to such a large degree unless it was somehow clogged by material introduced during the pipe replacement project...or...?

Could someone advise whether this power-consumption number seems sane (considering the eight additional 90-degree elbows in the heater flow path) before we decide to open up the heat-exhange unit ("intercambiador" in Spanish) for inspection? We're hesitant to dive into that project only because we'd have to procure the necessary replacement gaskets for the old unit and don't want to have to do that unless we're sure that's the next step.

Thanks for any and all advice and assistance.
 
Last edited:
Try attaching your pics again.

525 watts is only about 25%-30% of the motor capacity and I don’t think that is excessive.

What RPM is the pump running at with the gas heater?

That alone would not cause me to do surgery on the heater.

8 90s don’t make a big difference at 20-30 GPM.

Lets see if your pics show us all the plumbing.
 
What RPM is the pump running at with the gas heater?

With the gas heater, the pump runs 2273 RPM @ 17 psi (525 watts).
IMG_8529.JPG

Bypassing the gas heater, the pump drops to 1345 RPM @ 5 psi (145 watts).

525 watts is only about 25%-30% of the motor capacity and I don’t think that is excessive.

OK, thanks. Seems like a lot of wasted power, nearly 400 extra watts to push water through the heat exchanger. As an engineer, that makes me roll my eyes :rolleyes:... but this heater is at least 25 years old (that's how long my brother has owned the house) so perhaps no one was concerned about power consumption back when it was designed. However, with current electrical rates, we're talking maybe $1 - $2 / day in extra electrity here, and, being cheap, that makes me cringe a bit...

But if you think that's normal, it probably makes more sense to explore more efficient heaters rather than consider mechanical surgery to learn what's probably obvious...
 
With the gas heater, the pump runs 2273 RPM @ 17 psi (525 watts).
View attachment 548719

Bypassing the gas heater, the pump drops to 1345 RPM @ 5 psi (145 watts).

My Intelliflo VSF needs 2400 RPM to give my MasterTemp the 30-40 GPM it needs.

2300 RPM though 1/5" plumbing for a gas heater is not surprising.

OK, thanks. Seems like a lot of wasted power, nearly 400 extra watts to push water through the heat exchanger. As an engineer, that makes me roll my eyes :rolleyes:... but this heater is at least 25 years old (that's how long my brother has owned the house) so perhaps no one was concerned about power consumption back when it was designed. However, with current electrical rates, we're talking maybe $1 - $2 / day in extra electrity here, and, being cheap, that makes me cringe a bit...

That is why some new heaters - Jandy and Pentair - now have optional automatic bypass valves that bypass the waterflow when the heater is off and send water into the heater only when it will be on. Then you can run a VS pump at lower RPM when the heater is off.
 
That is why some new heaters - Jandy and Pentair - now have optional automatic bypass valves that bypass the waterflow when the heater is off and send water into the heater only when it will be on. Then you can run a VS pump at lower RPM when the heater is off.
That makes sense. In fact, I'm thinking of using a motorized Jandy valve as an external bypass valve and connect it to the heater logic to bypass the heater externally when the proper heat is reached. Why keep pushing water through a restricted passageway when the heater's not running?

It surprises me, though, that these heat exchangers are designed in such a restrictive manner. I understand the requirement that the water make as much contact with the heat exchanger surface as possible, which is best done with many small flow channels, but there should be ways to do that in a less restrictive manner.

If the designers are trying to deliberately increase pressure to determine that flow is present, wouldn't a flow sensor be better? Our heater uses a pressure sensor, not a flow sensor...perhaps they do that for safety reasons...
 
With the gas heater, the pump runs 2273 RPM @ 17 psi (525 watts).
View attachment 548719

Bypassing the gas heater, the pump drops to 1345 RPM @ 5 psi (145 watts).



OK, thanks. Seems like a lot of wasted power, nearly 400 extra watts to push water through the heat exchanger. As an engineer, that makes me roll my eyes :rolleyes:... but this heater is at least 25 years old (that's how long my brother has owned the house) so perhaps no one was concerned about power consumption back when it was designed. However, with current electrical rates, we're talking maybe $1 - $2 / day in extra electrity here, and, being cheap, that makes me cringe a bit...

But if you think that's normal, it probably makes more sense to explore more efficient heaters rather than consider mechanical surgery to learn what's probably obvious...
Very possible that a 25+ - year-old heater has a heat exchanger that is clogged with deposits internally. It would take removing a header to actually look inside to determine. A 25-year-old heater that has been in use is probably EOL anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoyfulNoise
Very possible that a 25+ - year-old heater has a heat exchanger that is clogged with deposits internally. It would take removing a header to actually look inside to determine. A 25-year-old heater that has been in use is probably EOL anyway.
I’ll second that. My 25-ish year old heater died exactly that way over the summer. Chucks of heat exchanger got pushed out and lodged themselves in my SWG clear body luckily when I was standing there to shut it all down.
 
Modern pool water heaters use headers that are designed with high flow bypass of the water so that only a fraction of the water is sent into the heat exchanger to be heated and mixed with cold bypass water. This reduces the problem associated with over heating water and accidentally melting PVC pipes. It’s an inherently safer design. A 25 year old heater probably pushes all the water into and out of the heat exchanger which is inefficient. Old heaters often required that the manifold be plumbed with a foot or so of copper pipe on the outlet to act as a radiator so that the hot water would cool a bit and not melt anything critical.

The short answer to your brother in laws problems is this - install a new heater.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
The gas heater had been plumbed in years ago with 1" copper pipe, but recently a local provider swapped out the copper pipe for 1.5" CPVC (as spec'd by the manufacturer).
1" pipe is pretty small; are you sure it was 1"?

If everything was working, why did the person feel the need to replumb?

What does the service person say about the extra power?

What was the power usage before?
 
The temperature rise is the same from inlet to outlet regardless of if all or part of the water goes through the heat exchanger.

In my opinion, the most efficient way is to make a single pass stacked heat exchanger with all of the water going through.

The design below can be done with a top mounted flat heat exchanger or a round heat exchanger like a Mastertemp.

1704593318272.png
 
1" pipe is pretty small; are you sure it was 1"?
Yes.
If everything was working, why did the person feel the need to replumb?
As you pointed out, 1" pipe is pretty small. Standing down in the pump pit and taking a close look, you could see that it was smaller than the rest of the system plumbing. Don't know why it was originally installed that way. Downloaded the installation manual, 1.5" CPVC is what is spec'd. A no-brainer to change it out.
What does the service person say about the extra power?
He's a local plumber. Nothing meaningful.
What was the power usage before?
Don't know. For years, before the Pentair was installed, it was a 3 HP dumb pump probably sucking a kilowatt or two. After the Pentair was installed, everything worked better and nobody thought to record the power usage for solar, gas heater and straight-through operation. This is mostly a rental operation, and the property managers aren't pool experts...if the pump is working and the pool's not green, "it's fine".
The short answer to your brother in laws problems is this - install a new heater.
No doubt. But I like to understand what's going on before just tossing money at a problem. It may be an easier way to make a problem go away but it isn't as satisfying as the process of gaining knowledge. This forum is a great tool for that.

Based on the comments posted here, I'll research heaters and oversee the purchase and installation to make sure the new unit has internal bypass and minimal flow restriction. This is Mexico, and without making that effort it's quite possible that this old heater would be replaced by another "new-but-25-year-old-design" unit.
 
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.