Depending only on the flow switch?

[sande005]

Just received my SWCG (RJ-45) and getting serious about the install. And perhaps reading too many threads here on TFP.

Have had a Century V-Green 165 pump motor for a number of years. The integrated timer does not allow any external devices to be wired to it. The CircuPool manual noted it was fine to use the flow switch to determine whether the SWCG was powered or not. But then I read threads about the desirability of having an alternative to making sure the SWCG is off if the motor is not running. Usually by wiring into an external timer. While I love the idea of redundancy, is it strongly advised, or is using the flow switch alone just fine? Of course, there is a master power switch to shut everything down. Thinking the neighbors might not appreciate the Hindenburg disaster happening next door...

 

[ajw22]

Here is one report - Explosion near the SWG

And another - Help,, my pipe exploded !!!

Exploding pool!!!

 

[Texas Splash]

I got past that issue because my pump runs on low 24/7, so I don't have to worry about shutting down the SWG. Maybe just keep your pump on all the time on a low rpm?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sande,

It is about the same as driving with your air bags shut off. Can you do it, sure you can. Can you drive many miles without any problems? Sure you can, right up to the point of the crash.

Having a Primary and Secondary safety device is good advice, but it is up to you if you want to do it or not. You may never have a problem and then again, you won't know for sure until something blows up.

I too run 24/7 at about 1200 RPM.. I love the fact that I am making a little chlorine all the time. And I love the fact that I'm skimming all the time. All for less than $20 bucks a month. Also, I never have to worry about freeze control..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

+3 to 24/7. On the off chance the pump looses prime, the flow switch is my redundant safety device.

The SWG is wired to the pump breaker so they both go off in if there is an isolated power issue.

If I ran a schedule, I would most certainly have a SWG timer to only run inside the pump runtime window, and I'd occasionally check to ensure they were still synced because a slight variance between the two would add up to being out of sync over time.

 

[sande005]

Soo..given that the pump itself runs its own schedule, what is an alternative?
Get a newer version that can support an external device, or other brand?
Put in a second flow switch, in series, somewhere else in the system?

 

[Texas Splash]

given that the pump itself runs its own schedule, what is an alternative?

The simplest solution? Just reprogram the pump to run 24/7 on a low rpm. Connect your RJ module to a separate power source. The SWG will be on 24/7 just like the pump and only go off when you turn off the module or if there is a power failure. Done.

 

[PoolStored]

Soo..given that the pump itself runs its own schedule, what is an alternative?
Get a newer version that can support an external device, or other brand?
Put in a second flow switch, in series, somewhere else in the system?

Here's a thread on my rebuild. I used a current sensing relay. Works good...

Picture Thread! SWCG add, plumbing cleanup, pump power interconnect! Might help someone...

Started this thread because @IUsedToSail asked about orientation of valves/check valves. Made me realize I didn't do a plumbing thread on my rebuild. Some may know my story, new pool owner last year (came with the house), I was PoolStored...then I found TFP. Pulled out the UV system and the...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

Soo..given that the pump itself runs its own schedule, what is an alternative?

Powering the SWG with its own timer or telling your pump to run 1 schedule of 24/7.

The added bonuses of 24/7 is your FC will always be topped off, youll never wonder if you're filtering enough, you'll mix the pool straight through any bigger storms not allowing 0 FC water to fester on top, and any floating debris that falls into the pool won't have 12+ hours to get waterlogged and sink before skimming starts again. I cannot reccomend it enough.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

what is an alternative?

The simplest solution? Just reprogram the pump to run 24/7 on a low rpm. Connect your RJ module to a separate power source. The SWG will be on 24/7 just like the pump and only go off when you turn off the module or if there is a power failure. Done.

Here's a thread on my rebuild. I used a current sensing relay. Works good...

...or, if you don't want to run 24/7, connect the SWG controller to a timer and set the runtimes inside the pump runtimes. You can use a Wifi switch or mechanical timer.

In my area, power costs are too expensive to run my pump 24/7.

 

[sande005]

One challenge is that the pump runs on an arbitrary 24 hr cycle. When it gets power via its "Start" button is when the 24 hrs starts. There is a fixed 3 min 600 rpm priming cycle at the start of every 24 hrs , when the Start button is pressed, or when main power is restored after an outage.
I look forward to setting it to run at low speed 24/7, but that priming cycle concerns me a bit....that's where the flow switch would be the primary detector....

The problem compounds if I have part of the 24 hrs set to be "don't run". Depending on the time of day I hit the start button, it would be very easy to get a timer out of synch. So crossing my fingers that 24/7 will be optimal.

Beginning to think an upgrade to the motor might be in my near future. There are (were?) later models that allowed power to come directly off the motor to run a SWG and other things that only should be on when the motor itself is running.....or I look for a motor that is less smart and only has two adjustable speeds.....one for 24/7 normal use, one for vacuuming and pumping down the pool ....

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

I didn't realize that those pumps require you physically hit the start button for each 24 hour period. So there's no way to program an auto start time??

Assuming the current sensing the current sensing relay will switch the SWG On and Off, that may be your best route.

Does your pump have relay inputs for connecting to automation? I saw this in one of the manuals...

 

[sande005]

I was a bit unclear - once you set up a 24 hr program, it runs it every 24 hrs - no restart needed. There are 4 periods that can be set for duration and speed. But, preceeding the first period of the 24 hr cycle, there is that 3 min priming. Looks like they assumed most people would make the last period an "off" setting.

Yes, I have that RS485 set of pins. Their documentation on how to use is very light.....I get the impression that they are more for changing the settings for the periods than for controlling other things, but I could be way off the mark there.

 

[sande005]

May have found an answer. Found a video from the manufacturer about using it with a timeclock. Essentially, if power is lost, on restore the motor starts back at the begining of its 24 hr cycle. So a time clock is set to blip the power at a preset time every day, keeping the motor synched with the real time of day. So putting the SWG on a second timer that delays its start for a bit, say one hour after the motor, and stops just before the motor gets blipped.....

Any recommendations for a timer that can run two 220 v circuits, with different schedules, in one enclosure? I have an electrician coming mid-week next week, and would be nice to have or be able to tell him what to get....

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Is your pump running on 120 or 240 volts.

Disregard...I see it in the last paragraph.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Are you interested in automation via app/smartphone? There is a wireless interface kit available for the pump. It is a bit pricey at almost $400. You would still need a separate timer for the SWG.

How to Install a Century VLink Wireless Interface to a VGreen 165 - INYOPools.com

This guide shows you how to install a VLink wireless interface to your VGreen 165 motor.

www.inyopools.com

For the pump, you could use a mechanical timer like the Intermatic T104R or a WiFi timer like the Suraielec or the Dewenwils. Both work with Alexa/Google Home/etc so you can schedule outside using those apps as well.

It looks like the advantage of "blipping" the power is the pump remains powered for manual control if desired. If you want to maintain this function, you would need a second timer for the SWG. Otherwise, you could connect both loads to the timer and set identical on/off times for pump and SWG.

If you want a separate timer for the SWG, if connected to 220 volts, you can't use a typical smart switch. Any of the above timers would work. Take a look at the low budget automation link in my sig. This post describes a how I use a simple $13 Wifi switch to control my SWG.

Low Budget DIY Automation

When we built the pool, I decided against full automation for a variety of reasons including cost, the proprietary nature of available devices, and the fear an expensive system would quickly become obsolete and unsupported. I've seen a few forums members using Raspberry PI and Arduino...

www.troublefreepool.com

I should note your pump can be connected to third party automation via a RS-485 cable, but I'm not sure how it works. Your pump can also be connected to simple Wifi relays for control, much like I did with my pump.

 

[randytsuch]

Per page 18 of the RJ-45 owner's manual, you can move a couple jumpers to change its voltage from 240 to 120.
Its what I did with my SWG so I could use a smart switch to turn it on and off.

Randy

 

[sande005]

I found an Intermatic timer PE153 that looks like it may work. 3 "Channels" out, each with an independent timer. So 240 in, and then the pump. the SWG, and even my heater, can be separately scheduled. As long as I keep the run times of the last two within the total number of consecutive hours of the first, I should be good to go. Reviews are mixed for that timer...but not much else I could find that is similar.

 

[ajw22]

I found an Intermatic timer PE153 that looks like it may work. 3 "Channels" out, each with an independent timer. So 240 in, and then the pump. the SWG, and even my heater, can be separately scheduled. As long as I keep the run times of the last two within the total number of consecutive hours of the first, I should be good to go. Reviews are mixed for that timer...but not much else I could find that is similar.

PE153 does not meet code to switch both hot lines on a 240V circuit.

Swicthing one hot line leaves the other wire hot and dangerous for someone working on the device thinking the power is off.

 

[sande005]

Thanks for noting that. Amazon delivers tomorrow, but free returns. Since I'm having a real electrician redo all the wiring, I'll make sure to have him evaluate. I asked whether he wanted me to get it, or if he should. Signed agreement about scope of work, and meeting all codes. So if he has a better solution after looking it over, even if it's two separate timers, great!