Continuation of an odyssey

mguzzy

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2015
1,237
OV, CA
And of course, the Taylor K-1766 is reading about 3500. Or higher. Oh well, I will go with it for awhile... This is probably why the newer ones don't actually display a number...
Its a weird relationship. The actual salinity is going to be what your test measures. But the controller will function based on what it measures. And there is no way to calibrate one to the other so you will have to find a happy medium. Sounds like you are right where you want to be.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
1,498
Marrietta Ga
I am positive my was reading 3600 earlier this year, SWG and it worked great but when I tested my salt few weeks later it was 2800.
But the Edge never complained and was always working great, did seem to make more CL once I got the level up to 3200. retested a few times since and it's holding steady at 3200
I added more and it's around 3200 and when I can go to Walmart and not have people looking at each other like they are walking germs I will pick up another bag or 2
 

scottts

Gold Supporter
Nov 13, 2019
66
Gilbert, AZ
I'm not sure if this is real or a measurement issue specifically related to the IC-40, but I notice that my IC-40 reports salt levels 150-200ppm higher when its been on for days. Its 3700 after about 24 hours of idle and will rise to 3950-4000 when operating at 100% for 24 hours or so. I also notice pH rises when the chlorinator is on, so maybe the chemistry actually changes a bit and some free sodium ion in the water gets a bit of extra chlorine from the generation and a bit of new salt is created?

I don't have a clue if that's even possible but I have accepted that the salt reading will change depending on the cells operating status.
 

mguzzy

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2015
1,237
OV, CA
I don't have a clue if that's even possible but I have accepted that the salt reading will change depending on the cells operating status.
Yup. the salinity reading from the cell can be affected by temperature and other factors. Also the Avg reading is the average of all the instant Salinity readings since the average was last reset. Add to that the collective forum opinion has found the IC SWG's seem to run better on the high end of the range whereas the Hayward/Goldlines run better on the low end of the range.. so the manufacture of the cell comes into play as well.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
1,498
Marrietta Ga
The average salt level display went down to actual measured and instantaneous level of 3200 and the cell is apparently in its idle time now. So I guess that's excitement. I will have to check FC tomorrow night. That'll be exciting.....
I was looking at your installation and noticed you have the same filter as mine, mine is the 4030 which is way over kill but my first cartridge filter was "right sized" and I got tired of cleaning it all the time :)
 
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Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
Its a weird relationship. The actual salinity is going to be what your test measures. But the controller will function based on what it measures. And there is no way to calibrate one to the other so you will have to find a happy medium. Sounds like you are right where you want to be.
Well, I did look at it one more time before I had to leave and go into work. It appears that it's measuring every couple of seconds when the cell is on. When it's in the off portion of the cycle it doesn't measure (reads 0000), so it is probably calculated from the current and voltage that the unit tracks (and can display). We will see. I am at 3500 actual, but I can go a half a bag higher if need be. That will raise it 200 or so PPM. That would put actual at the high end of the range-ish but the unit might think it's in the center. I don't want to go over so I will be patient.
 
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Rattus Suffocatus

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Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
Yup. the salinity reading from the cell can be affected by temperature and other factors. Also the Avg reading is the average of all the instant Salinity readings since the average was last reset. Add to that the collective forum opinion has found the IC SWG's seem to run better on the high end of the range whereas the Hayward/Goldlines run better on the low end of the range.. so the manufacture of the cell comes into play as well.
I highly suspect, but will never know for sure, the Circupool Universal 40 (a.k.a Si 40, Ui 40) is a clone of the Hayward T-Cell-15/AquaLink (or even the same Chinese manufacturer) ... the controller is laid out a little differently, but it seems to display the same stuff. I think the rest of their stuff might be similar to the Australian Compupool stuff, though it looks to have diverged a bit in the last several years.

I picked it because it was in the price range I decided I could afford, and had the features of the higher end RJ's. The cells only last 3-4 years but are among the lest expensive replacements out there, so in the end it was a wash. It's a beast in that it can produce 2.0 lbs/day so even though it lives a bit less, it can burn brighter when doing so. And now that I know it takes about 3 minutes to change a cell.. meh...

If this is true, then keeping at the low end of the range might be ideal. We will see.

It's definitely cranking out choride ions. If anything I think I will need to turn it down a little bit from my original calculations. I'll know in probably 24 more hours.
 
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Rattus Suffocatus

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Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
I was looking at your installation and noticed you have the same filter as mine, mine is the 4030 which is way over kill but my first cartridge filter was "right sized" and I got tired of cleaning it all the time :)
Yeah, I really ought to take it apart and clean it someday, but the pressure gauge hasn't budged one bit since the pool was built. Not even one psi. Maybe at the July 4th weekend... :)
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
1,498
Marrietta Ga
Yeah, I really ought to take it apart and clean it someday, but the pressure gauge hasn't budged one bit since the pool was built. Not even one psi. Maybe at the July 4th weekend... :)
How old is your pool? I noticed my heater said low flow but pressure was the same and they were nasty..
We get a lot of pollen in Ga and I am surrounded by tree's
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
It was finished in late September 2019. So 8 months or so, covered and not used most of the winter (you don't "close" a pool here, and the cover was the solar cover), so about 3.5 months of use... I do have a pressure gauge on the floor cleaner system and the differential is about 2 psi through the filter. I will get to it on one of the long weekends.. but not this one....
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
1,498
Marrietta Ga
It was finished in late September 2019. So 8 months or so, covered and not used most of the winter (you don't "close" a pool here, and the cover was the solar cover), so about 3.5 months of use... I do have a pressure gauge on the floor cleaner system and the differential is about 2 psi through the filter. I will get to it on one of the long weekends.. but not this one....
[/QUOTE
Your probably good, thought you were going to say 3 years :) If you ever order supplies from the TFT store add the gauge, its a LOT better then the stock one..Well worth the $15
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
Meh. Maybe flow rate matters too. It was running my morning cleaning cycle at 3000 RPM. This is tonight... It's within 200 PPM. IMG_20200518_184718375.jpg
Mañana I will figure out the difference between this mornings FC reading (a little high) and tomorrow mornings... And then likely turn down the unit a bit. Oddly enough with the pump interval I decided on, the capacity of the cell and the pool volume the percentage should be just about what FC I want it to generate. I. E. The 63% should generate 6.3 FC in a day. That should be high... We will see.
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
hee.. at 63% running for 14 hrs/day the FC went up 2.5 PPM from yesterday morning to today (10.5 PPM.. almost a SLAM). So I turned it down to 52% and we will see tonight (12 hrs later, I am guessing we will go up 0.5 PPM if my new calculations are correct). If it's stable I will turn it off on Wednesday and then back on Thursday adjust with bleach if needed. The thing is a beast. At least for my little 14K gallon pool.... Luckily there is a bit of a cold snap today, and it's windy, so I doubt if anyone will swim in the pool until tomorrow.
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
It's supposed to put out 2.0 lbs/day at full capacity. So, oddly enough for a 40K Circupool unit it does have the highest output level. I estimated 60% was going to be about right from pool math, but you know how that goes. A pound a day is probably about right for a 14Kgal pool but we are very good about leaving the pool covered when not in use because we are still trying to warm up the water (It's about 82F in the morning and 85-86 at the end of the day now...so we are almost there) and I suspect that is where the difference might be coming from. I'll get it, but I suspect I'll have to turn it off for a day to get it down to the 4-6's where I eventually want it. I am planning on taking PTO from tomorrow to Monday, so I'll hopefully have 5 days to tweak it. I'd like to get to only doing testing 2x a week (occasionally 1x a week), with the ability to leave the pool for a week. The detached hot tub I run with very low CYA, so if I need to go for a week I can drop a tab into a floater and still be okay...once...

It's very similar even at the PC board level to the Hayward Aquarite. (I could follow most of the mainboard schematics from my pictures I took of the control panel and the Aqua Rite schematics posted here.) I was even thinking it might be fully compatible, but the cell type in the SW Display is a "F-15" and not a "T-15" so, who knows? The only advantage to it being fully compatible is aftermarket T-15 cells going for $70 less than the Circupool ones, and for that level it might not be worth it, anyway. The "DSP" board has the status LED's laid out horizontally instead of vertically, but otherwise they are the same, the software revision makes sense if you look at newer Hayward units, etc. There is even a remote LED on the Circupool though it appears that the Circupool main board lacks the RS-485 transceivers.... No big deal as all you can apparently monitor is the salt level and all you can set is on/off and percentage.

One thing that is going through my nasty little head now is somehow doing a tap off (with a high impedance opamp) of the temperature sensor and seeing if it can be fed into something like an ESP8266 so I can have the pool temperature remotely monitored. The only problem with this is that it will only work when the unit is powered up, but I can probably live with it only working during the daytime anyway (I'll retain the last reading until morning if queried.) Since the Molex connectors and mates are well known for the Hayward, and this is the same, I can literally do it without touching the unit..... Probably won't though..
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
1,498
Marrietta Ga
It's supposed to put out 2.0 lbs/day at full capacity. So, oddly enough for a 40K Circupool unit it does have the highest output level. I estimated 60% was going to be about right from pool math, but you know how that goes. A pound a day is probably about right for a 14Kgal pool but we are very good about leaving the pool covered when not in use because we are still trying to warm up the water (It's about 82F in the morning and 85-86 at the end of the day now...so we are almost there) and I suspect that is where the difference might be coming from. I'll get it, but I suspect I'll have to turn it off for a day to get it down to the 4-6's where I eventually want it. I am planning on taking PTO from tomorrow to Monday, so I'll hopefully have 5 days to tweak it. I'd like to get to only doing testing 2x a week (occasionally 1x a week), with the ability to leave the pool for a week. The detached hot tub I run with very low CYA, so if I need to go for a week I can drop a tab into a floater and still be okay...once...

It's very similar even at the PC board level to the Hayward Aquarite. (I could follow most of the mainboard schematics from my pictures I took of the control panel and the Aqua Rite schematics posted here.) I was even thinking it might be fully compatible, but the cell type in the SW Display is a "F-15" and not a "T-15" so, who knows? The only advantage to it being fully compatible is aftermarket T-15 cells going for $70 less than the Circupool ones, and for that level it might not be worth it, anyway. The "DSP" board has the status LED's laid out horizontally instead of vertically, but otherwise they are the same, the software revision makes sense if you look at newer Hayward units, etc. There is even a remote LED on the Circupool though it appears that the Circupool main board lacks the RS-485 transceivers.... No big deal as all you can apparently monitor is the salt level and all you can set is on/off and percentage.

One thing that is going through my nasty little head now is somehow doing a tap off (with a high impedance opamp) of the temperature sensor and seeing if it can be fed into something like an ESP8266 so I can have the pool temperature remotely monitored. The only problem with this is that it will only work when the unit is powered up, but I can probably live with it only working during the daytime anyway (I'll retain the last reading until morning if queried.) Since the Molex connectors and mates are well known for the Hayward, and this is the same, I can literally do it without touching the unit..... Probably won't though..
Like you said earlier when the warranty expires :)
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
The kinda cool thing about that is that it could probably be adapted to the other units as well. It's too bad they don't already sell something like that. A remote temperature reading would sure be nice for the pool, especially one that doesn't rely on a floater.... I won't have time to do much more than think about a project like that until late fall anyway....
 

Rattus Suffocatus

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2019
894
Corona de Tucson, AZ
Okay.. I just went off and spent $75 with Ambient Weather for a floater and two probes (Hot tub and maybe the pool if I can figure out how not to use the floater). I do need in house monitoring, but that's easier, hopefully.... The trick to keeping the electronic floaters happy is to take them out every couple of weeks and dry the humidity out from the inside (Since it's impossible to pressurize them with Nitrogen -- maybe CO2... interesting thought). I have it down to 30 seconds with the "Game" thermometer I currently use that I got for $5 last December on close out.... So I probably won't mess with that project...

My Chinese Ambient Weather station has been pretty flawless for the last two years, so I figure, why not? Unfortunately these sensors are not compatible, but I can receive both on a Raspberry Pi and an RTL-SDR so if I ever did want to combine the data from the two... it's doable....(The WX station is 915 MHz and the wet sensors are only available in 433 MHz). I've decoded the 915 MHz signals already....