Chemical additions

[Redsurprise]

So my levels are here below. My CH actually went down from the last time I checked it. Previously I was told that there was no need to add any CH as by end of summer it will go up on it’s own, but my levels have stayed between 225-250 since Feb when I added the CH initially given that my first fill water only gave me a 50 level CH. Is that advice still solid or should I add some?

My CYA was 60 . Since temps next week are back in the 90s, should I look to add more CYA to get it a little higher or still wait?

My pH is always high, but I guess that is going to be the case all the time until next year with new plaster. I have to add muriatic acid at least every other day. Is that fairly normal?

Suggestions from you pool pros always welcomed and appreciated!

 

[wireform]

The CYA should be minimum 70 and better would be 80 and with that is a FC target of 5-10 for 70 and 6-11 for 80 and try to stay no lower then midrange of target. If your fill water is that low I'd say up it another 50 ppm but be sure that your water supply remains that low before bringing it up. Your salinity is low @2400 and needs to be in the 3000 territory at minimum but be sure that's what it really is so you don't overshoot.

 

[CreedenceTapes]

My pH is always high, but I guess that is going to be the case all the time until next year with new plaster. I have to add muriatic acid at least every other day. Is that fairly normal?

I'm far from a Pro, but in my n=1 experience, my acid additions decrease to almost nothing once my TA drops to 60. Higher than that, and I'm adding acid every other day.

I followed the advice to let my TA settle where it naturally wants to, and it's working out well for me. Borates at 50 seem to help too.

 

[Redsurprise]

The CYA should be minimum 70 and better would be 80 and with that is a FC target of 5-10 for 70 and 6-11 for 80 and try to stay no lower then midrange of target. If your fill water is that low I'd say up it another 50 ppm but be sure that your water supply remains that low before bringing it up. Your salinity is low @2400 and needs to be in the 3000 territory at minimum but be sure that's what it really is so you don't overshoot.

Previously I was told not to add anymore salt if my cell was making adequate chlorine. The Test from pro kit said 2400 for salt . salt cell
Says 2900 and my pool is making a lot of chlorine. When I had it running for 4 hours at 30% my chlorine level went up too high.

So I do want to add more salt?

Also, if I lower the pH to 7.2 to get TA to drop , how long do I aerate to bring it back up?

 

[mknauss]

If your SWCG is happy and making chlorine, no need to add salt. Your salt level will rise naturally in your area.

No need to force the TA lower. You want a higher TA until your CH level increases.

 

[Redsurprise]

If your SWCG is happy and making chlorine, no need to add salt. Your salt level will rise naturally in your area.

No need to force the TA lower. You want a higher TA until your CH level increases.

Well my CH still hasn’t gone up.
Actually it went down by 25 and is 225. Still think it is going up on its own?or add some CH?

 

[mknauss]

It will rise. It did not go down, that is testing variance.
Add calcium if you wish.
By the end of this summer, your CH will be close to 400 ppm naturally due to evaporation.

 

[Redsurprise]

So my FC has been around 5 for a couple of days. I’d like it a little higher so last night I changed/increased the percentage on the Salt cell. My FC went down to 4. Can I run the salt cell for a little bit tonight and then increase percentage tomorrow? I just don’t want to drop anymore on my FC. I am going to add my CYA tomorrow to get it to 70 or so as well.

Re-tested salt level and it is 2400 still. Maybe I should add the 30 extra pounds of salt recommended by pool math to get it to 3000. The salt cell says it is 2800.

 

[MITBeta]

You should add liquid chlorine to bring your FC up quickly AND bump your SWG setting a little bit.

I would add more salt.

 

[Redsurprise]

so I added more salt last night, 30lbs, which was what pool math said to add to achieve 3000ppm.

Left my pump running since I added

Can I add other chemicals this morning like muriatic acid? Can I add those with the SWCG running?

Also need to increase my CYA a little bit but not sure how soon after adding salt it is okay to do that.

 

[proavia]

You only need to wait about 15-30 minutes between liquid chlorine and muriaric acid additions.

Adding muriatic acid with the SWG running is fine.
CYA can be added at any time - use the sock method.

If you add a 40# bag or more of salt, after the salt totally dissolves, leave the pump running for 24 hpirs with the SWG off. After 24 hours, turn the SWG on and go back to your normal schedule.

 

[Redsurprise]

You only need to wait about 15-30 minutes between liquid chlorine and muriaric acid additions.

Adding muriatic acid with the SWG running is fine.
CYA can be added at any time - use the sock method.

If you add a 40# bag or more of salt, after the salt totally dissolves, leave the pump running for 24 hpirs with the SWG off. After 24 hours, turn the SWG on and go back to your normal schedule.

Oh. I have the swg on this morning. Has been running the last 2 hours. Should I turn it off and just add Liq chlorine today then?

I added a 30lb amount of the salt last night around 9pm

 

[proavia]

Not necessarily - if the SWG is producing, use it.
30# is less than a full 40# bag. If a full 40# bag or more is added, run the pump 24hours and then turn the SWG on.
You're good......

My comment is to wait about 15-30 minutes between muriatic acid and liquid chlorine additions.
For other chlorination methods and other chemical additions, no real reason to wait between additions.

 

[Redsurprise]

So I tested some of my levels since it has been 2 days since I added my additional salt (30 pounds) and the levels are exactly the same or almost.

The first time I tested , I did 13 drops and it turned to the salmon color (so 2600 ppm). The second time I did it got only 12 drops (2400 ppm).

2400 ppm was what I was getting before the salt and a few weeks ago after the salt was intiallg added.

What’s the deal? I am doing the test correctly per the directions included with my TF-Pro kit.

The Taylor salt strip is hard to read it doesn’t match any of the colors exactly. Sort of in between the 3000 and 4000.

Suggestions on what to do?

Not sure if it is useful, but my salt cell says average salt is 3500 and instant
salt is 3281.


Previously before the add , salt cell would say 2800 or 2900 average salt (when test was saying 2400).

Taylor salt test strip:

 

[proavia]

Do you use one of the stirring devices?
It makes testing so much easier and consistent.

Do the test again....

• 10 ml of pool water (taken with pump running for 30 minutes fromabout 18" below the surface.
• Add one drop of R-0630-A and mix in.
• Add R-0718-A, one drop attime, mixing well between drops.
• Continue adding drops of R-0718-A until the sample changes - and stays - the salmon color.

If using a stirring device, you can add drops about every second as the stirrer will do all the mixing.
If doing the swirling by hand, continue swirling the entire time and add drops every second or two - but swirl the entire time until the test is completed.

The salt test is complete when the sample turns - and stays - the salmon color.
Somerimes a drop will flash the sample salmon and then it goes badk to the previous color - continue adding drops.

 

[Redsurprise]

Do you use one of the stirring devices?
It makes testing so much easier and consistent.

Do the test again....

• 10 ml of pool water (taken with pump running for 30 minutes fromabout 18" below the surface.
• Add one drop of R-0630-A and mix in.
• Add R-0718-A, one drop attime, mixing well between drops.
• Continue adding drops of R-0718-A until the sample changes - and stays - the salmon color.

If using a stirring device, you can add drops about every second as the stirrer will do all the mixing.
If doing the swirling by hand, continue swirling the entire time and add drops every second or two - but swirl the entire time until the test is completed.

The salt test is complete when the sample turns - and stays - the salmon color.
Somerimes a drop will flash the sample salmon and then it goes badk to the previous color - continue adding drops.

I did it twice with a magnetic stirrer. The pump has been running for last 2.5 hours . But I took a test and got 14 drops (my first test of the two precious tests was 13 or 14 drops). Here is a video my test so you can see . Feedback ?

 

[proavia]

Your endpoint at 14 drops is correct.

A few pointers that may or may not make a difference....

• Add the 10 ml of pool water, double check it's at the 10 ml line.
• Put the stirrer bar in and turn the stirrer on.
• Hold the reagents perfectly vertical - no tilt to the reagent bottle.
• Add one drop of R-0630.
• Add drops of R-0718 while keeping the reagent bottle in place over the sample tube. Don't push the drops off the tip - let them fully form and drop by themselves. Don't flip the reagent bottle back and forth - hold it inverted and steady over the sample tube. Barely put any pressure on the sides of the reagent bottle.

For all the other drop tests, you should be allowing the drops to fully form and hold the bottle in place and as vertical as possible. This will lead to more accurate and consistent testing.

If the test comes out the same, so be it.
If the SWG is happy making chlorine at a measured 2800 ppm, that's fine.
Just pay attention to the SWG - and if you see a low salt indication, bump the salt up 200 ppm to start. Adjust salt as needed. But still do the drop based salt test.

My Circupool RJ45+ is perfectly happy to produce chlorine at 2800 ppm. But I will check on it each time I pass by the equipment pad to be sure it's still happily working.
Others may need a bit more salt to keep their SWG happy.

 

[Redsurprise]

so do you think my salt level is actually 2800? Do you suggest any other testing? Pool store?
The Taylor salt strips were hard to read . The three colors (especially the middle one) didn’t match anything really.

Like is said, my automation system reads much higher, at 3500 or 3200 instant salt. Previously when I had a 2400 salt level per drop test , it would say it was 2800 or 2900.

Poolmath said if I added 30 lbs it would bring salinity to 3000 ppm. I decided to do just aim for 3000 instead of 3200 so to not over do with salt and have to drain.

 

[proavia]

Stay out of the pool store. It will only add confusion.
Don't use the strips either.
You have the gold standard drop based salt test. Believe what it's telling you.

The marfin of error in the test is one drop - which is 200 ppm. So your salt could be 3000 ppm instead of 2800 ppm. The SWG readings aren't a direct reading of the salt content of the water - they are a conductivity test. And they can be off the mark (quite a bit at times).

Close is close enough.

If the SWG is happy, leave it alone for now.