Cellulose converted DE filter Pressure rising quickly, bumping does virtually nothing

[tdwpgtp]

Hello everyone,

We have a Hayward EC65a DE filter that, for the last 2 or 3 years, seems to need to be emptied and refilled too often. We recently tried switching to fiber clear cellulose filter media, and found that the filter pressure rises in a matter of a few days, and that bumping the filter does virtually nothing. Upon disassembling the filter to clean, I noticed that almost all of the cellulose material was up in the top of the filter. The outer surface of the media was green, of course, but after breaking up the chunks, it became pretty clear that the previous bumpings didn't do anything, as just under the surface of all of the media was perfectly clean. It seems that, rather than coating the grids, the media just rises right up to the top of the filter, bridges the grids, and stays there until it is disassembled and cleaned.

We have soaked the grids in acid and in TSP to try to clean the grids, and it has made no difference.

Is there anything I can do to fix this, or am I simply going to have to switch back to the DE, even though it still basically does the same thing? Any tips are welcome.

 

[mknauss]

The outer surface of the media was green

Sounds like algae. What does your water look like? Can you post a full set of test results?

 

[1poolman1]

Hello everyone,

We have a Hayward EC65a DE filter that, for the last 2 or 3 years, seems to need to be emptied and refilled too often. We recently tried switching to fiber clear cellulose filter media, and found that the filter pressure rises in a matter of a few days, and that bumping the filter does virtually nothing. Upon disassembling the filter to clean, I noticed that almost all of the cellulose material was up in the top of the filter. The outer surface of the media was green, of course, but after breaking up the chunks, it became pretty clear that the previous bumpings didn't do anything, as just under the surface of all of the media was perfectly clean. It seems that, rather than coating the grids, the media just rises right up to the top of the filter, bridges the grids, and stays there until it is disassembled and cleaned.

We have soaked the grids in acid and in TSP to try to clean the grids, and it has made no difference.

Is there anything I can do to fix this, or am I simply going to have to switch back to the DE, even though it still basically does the same thing? Any tips are welcome.

If you used acid first, the fingers are now have with an irremovable coating that will require them to be replaced. Sorry.

 

[tdwpgtp]

Sounds like algae. What does your water look like? Can you post a full set of test results?

There's currently algae because the water isn't cycling through fast enough because of the flow restriction, but even that aside, my concern is how I am unable to bump (regenerate) the media. Like I said, when I disassemble it, the media is clumped and will have a layer of filth on the outside, but is nearly perfectly clean inside. I have not used any floculants for at least a year. Additionally, pumping to waste does not rid the filter housing of more than a few crumbs of fiber media. Bumping does not help loosen it, rather it all sticks up at the top and must be washed off with a hose after taking it apart. I know this isn't how it's supposed to work, so something is off, or maybe the fiber clear product is the problem?

Anyway values were
FC 3.4
CC virtually zero (somewhere less than .2)
PH was 7.5
Alkalinity 90
Did not check CYA this week, but should be right around 40 or 50 as I haven't added anything stabilized chlorine

If you used acid first, the fingers are now have with an irremovable coating that will require them to be replaced. Sorry.

Care to elaborate? The filter instructions explicitly say to use muriatic acid if you have short cycles

 

[1poolman1]

There's currently algae because the water isn't cycling through fast enough because of the flow restriction, but even that aside, my concern is how I am unable to bump (regenerate) the media. Like I said, when I disassemble it, the media is clumped and will have a layer of filth on the outside, but is nearly perfectly clean inside. I have not used any floculants for at least a year. Additionally, pumping to waste does not rid the filter housing of more than a few crumbs of fiber media. Bumping does not help loosen it, rather it all sticks up at the top and must be washed off with a hose after taking it apart. I know this isn't how it's supposed to work, so something is off, or maybe the fiber clear product is the problem?

Anyway values were
FC 3.4
CC virtually zero (somewhere less than .2)
PH was 7.5
Alkalinity 90
Did not check CYA this week, but should be right around 40 or 50 as I haven't added anything stabilized chlorine


Care to elaborate? The filter instructions explicitly say to use muriatic acid if you have short cycles

From one manufacturer's filter cleaning instructions (they all have very similar instructions). This is for cartridge filters, but the results are the same for DE filters:

1. Remove the cartridge from the filter housing following the manufacture’s instructions.
2. Use a garden hose with a straight flow nozzle to wash down the filter element. Work from the top down, holding the nozzle at a 45 degree angle, and wash all the pleats with emphasis between pleats.
3. Rinse until all dirt and debris is gone.
4. For all spa cartridges and elements used in swimming pools where perspiration, suntan lotions, and other oils are present, soak the element for at least one hour (over night is more effective) in (1) a commercial filter cleaner; or (2) one cup trisodium phosphate (TSP) to five gallons water; or (3) once cup dishwasher detergent to five gallons of water.
5. Rinse the cartridge again to remove oils and cleaning solution.
6. If the filter has a coating of algae, calcium carbonate (residue from calcium hypochlorite), iron, or other minerals, soak the cartridge in a solution of one part muriatic acid to twenty parts water until all bubbling stops. WARNING: Failure to remove all oils and cleaning solution before acid soaking will result in a permanent restriction of water flow and cause premature cartridge failure.
7. Rinse the cartridge clean an reassemble housing.

 

[tdwpgtp]

From one manufacturer's filter cleaning instructions (they all have very similar instructions). This is for cartridge filters, but the results are the same for DE filters:

1. Remove the cartridge from the filter housing following the manufacture’s instructions.
2. Use a garden hose with a straight flow nozzle to wash down the filter element. Work from the top down, holding the nozzle at a 45 degree angle, and wash all the pleats with emphasis between pleats.
3. Rinse until all dirt and debris is gone.
4. For all spa cartridges and elements used in swimming pools where perspiration, suntan lotions, and other oils are present, soak the element for at least one hour (over night is more effective) in (1) a commercial filter cleaner; or (2) one cup trisodium phosphate (TSP) to five gallons water; or (3) once cup dishwasher detergent to five gallons of water.
5. Rinse the cartridge again to remove oils and cleaning solution.
6. If the filter has a coating of algae, calcium carbonate (residue from calcium hypochlorite), iron, or other minerals, soak the cartridge in a solution of one part muriatic acid to twenty parts water until all bubbling stops. WARNING: Failure to remove all oils and cleaning solution before acid soaking will result in a permanent restriction of water flow and cause premature cartridge failure.
7. Rinse the cartridge clean an reassemble housing.

Yeah, the hayward instructions for my filter mention nothing like that. In fact, it mentions acid before it mentioned a soap.

I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that I've always used the TSP first, but who knows. Is there a way to verify one way or the other? Anything I can inspect on the grids, or will it be too subtle of a difference? I'd replace them all either way if they weren't $300..

I'm assuming your theory here is that water isn't flowing into the lower parts of the grids due to the resulting coating, and thus is forcing all of the fiber up to the top, where it is bridging the grids during filtering and not releasing during regeneration? I've attached pictures of how the filter looked when I pulled it (without flushing it first). Note the lack of fiber on the bottom 2/3 of the grids and the white inner fiber in the clump i broke apart. During washing it off I saw oodles of clean, white fiber.

 

[1poolman1]

Yeah, the hayward instructions for my filter mention nothing like that. In fact, it mentions acid before it mentioned a soap.

I'm pretty sure, but not certain, that I've always used the TSP first, but who knows. Is there a way to verify one way or the other? Anything I can inspect on the grids, or will it be too subtle of a difference? I'd replace them all either way if they weren't $300..

I'm assuming your theory here is that water isn't flowing into the lower parts of the grids due to the resulting coating, and thus is forcing all of the fiber up to the top, where it is bridging the grids during filtering and not releasing during regeneration? I've attached pictures of how the filter looked when I pulled it (without flushing it first). Note the lack of fiber on the bottom 2/3 of the grids and the white inner fiber in the clump i broke apart. During washing it off I saw oodles of clean, white fiber.

You can remove one or all of the fingers and fill with water from the opening at the top. It should run out very quickly. That's how I would check DE grids that were suspect. If it holds water, its coated.

 

[tdwpgtp]

You can remove one or all of the fingers and fill with water from the opening at the top. It should run out very quickly. That's how I would check DE grids that were suspect. If it holds water, its coated.

Cool, I was hoping there was something like that I could do. I'll try that sometime this weekend

 

[ajw22]

Go back to DE.

Cellulose fiber does not work the same as DE and clogs too rapidly.