BYOP experience key learnings

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Crawdaddy

Member
Dec 21, 2022
19
Austin, TX
I'm thinking of BYOP and was wondering if anyone out there can give me some key learnings to help me make a decision.

  1. Would you recommend BYOP or not?
  2. What % did you save by going with BYOP? I'm being told 20-25% savings can be expected, but what are people actually getting?
  3. What time commitment does one need? How many days per week?
  4. What is your end-to-end time from planning, to construction, to completing your pool?
  5. What equipment brands are the best?
  6. What pool designs are the cheapest?
  7. What ways can I keep costs down?
  8. What subs (Austin TX area) would you recommend or not?
  9. What are the most important decisions to make during planning?
  10. What are the keys to keeping subs on track and high quality?
Anything else that you would like to share would be great and much appreciated!

thanks!
JH
 
JH,

Welcome to TFP pool... :shark:

We have several members that have done BYOP, so it will be interesting to see what they have to say.

I'd say a lot has to do with your background.

What do you know about pools and how they operate in general?

Building a pool is a construction project, what is your background in project management?

It would also be important to know what type of pool you want to build and how simple or elaborate you want it to be.

Ballpark, what is your budget for the whole project?

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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Crawdaddy said:
I'm thinking of BYOP and was wondering if anyone out there can give me some key learnings to help me make a decision.

  1. Would you recommend BYOP or not?
  2. What % did you save by going with BYOP? I'm being told 20-25% savings can be expected, but what are people actually getting?
  3. What time commitment does one need? How many days per week?
  4. What is your end-to-end time from planning, to construction, to completing your pool?
  5. What equipment brands are the best?
  6. What pool designs are the cheapest?
  7. What ways can I keep costs down?
  8. What subs (Austin TX area) would you recommend or not?
  9. What are the most important decisions to make during planning?
  10. What are the keys to keeping subs on track and high quality?
Anything else that you would like to share would be great and much appreciated!

thanks!
JH
Click to expand...
I just finished the house and pool is next. A lot of the OB house learning's apply but not all so here's what I think is relevant:

  1. Good builders bring a lot to the table and work hard. If you are the builder expect to do the same. A construction background is invaluable specific areas that help are civil/excavation, plumbing, and electrical. Experience managing and coordinating sub-contractors is a huge help also. If you are missing any of this expertise all is not lost. You'll just need a good pool construction consultant and this will erode some of the savings but way less than learning everything the hard way. I'd also recommend you check out DIY Pools and Spa's. They do the plans very competitively and offer expert advice on all aspects - even contractors in your area. I've used them for the design and am very happy with them.
  2. I think the % savings depends a lot on your location. Pool builders in my area are so busy that all the good ones are booked out over a year. Also, supply chain and labor issues are reducing the number of pools they can build each year so their gross margin is much higher than normal. I have seen at least 40% savings compared to a quality builder on the house. From what I've seen locally on pool pricing I think the savings is about the same.
  3. Ideally you are best served by being on site full-time. If not, at least half-time and make sure you don't have a set pattern. This way they don't know when you might show up. You also need to spend a LOT of time pre-qualifying subs. I required to see work in progress from each sub. Even if you don't know much about construction look for good house-keeping and orderly work with appropriate tools and nobody standing around doing nothing. Also ask to see their workman's comp experience factor. Safe contractors always perform better quality work.
  4. Construction for the pool should be 2-3 months or better. But lead-time for materials will drive your schedule more than the actual construction time. In my case concrete commitment will certainly be a big factor. Planning the pool took us about two months including 2 revisions by the designer. Don't forget about permit time. You will need to supply a stamped set of drawings to start the process. Response time varies a lot by location. In my case it is about 3 weeks.
  5. Just search this site you'll find fans of all the major brands but it seems to me our experts generally favor Pentair.
  6. Simple is cheap. Simple oval or rectangular with no spa, no features. Small is also cheap. DIY pools has an estimator tool you can use for free. Just remember conceptual designs that have no engineering are usually +50%. Once you have the engineering approved for construction you may be +20%. It's amazing how quantities grow when you get the details of design completed.
  7. Complete the design and then don't change anything. Make very certain stakeholders in the project (in my case, my wife) really, really know what they are getting before the design is complete. Show them examples if needed. If change are made, the later the change the more it costs. People don't realize the "knock-on" costs of change 'till they do construction themselves.
  8. Sorry I don't know subs in your area but I bet we have people on here that do.
  9. The devil is in the details for construction. Look at construction details on the plans and make sure you know what they require. Subs will occasionally ask you for clarifications. Make sure they know they need to ask questions before they start work. Don't rush planning. If you've never done this before make sure you are very thorough and ask the designer to explain any aspect of the design requirements that are not clear to you.
  10. Check your subs out thoroughly yourself or you and an expert consultant. Ask each one to describe the sequence of work they perform and where the interfaces are with other subs. Managing the interfaces are one of the key responsibilities of the builder. Set up a kick-off meeting with the contractors that will interface. For example your gunite contractor will interface with the excavation contractor and the plumbing and electrical. Everybody needs to know who's doing what and when. Otherwise one holds the other up and you get left holding the bill for a delay. Also they need to talk details. There are a lot of ways to perform many of the different activities and the all work. What doesn't work is when one contractor is planning for "A" but they get there to start and are left with "B" that they've never seen. You will never know about all of these items which is why it's best to have them participate in kick-off meetings even if they want to charge you an extra hour. Expect you will need to lead the meeting with thinks like:
    1. Work start and end time
    2. Contact info for each crew
    3. Safety requirements
    4. Dealing with neighbors (Don't let neighbors direct your crew. You deal with this before they start work)
Other things to remember:
  • Set up a schedule using open sourced scheduling software. Build the activities based on factual quoted duration's and build in the logic. Things will go wrong so build in 10-15% float for all activities. Update the schedule at least weekly based on real progress and use the schedule to "ping" contractors and suppliers at least a month ahead of time. When they are a month out ping weekly. When they are a week out confirm start date daily. This is the only way to stay on schedule and budget.
  • Select contractors on value not price
  • Be absolutely clear in writing with each contractor on their complete scope of work. Meet to be sure they are clear.
  • It's good to maintain a respectful relationship.
  • If something is going wrong address it immediately. Typical example: anything that jeopardizes safety is not to be tolerated. Everybody should be made aware of this at the kick-off meeting. Deal with the crew leader on this immediately and make sure it's corrected before work continues.
  • All this sounds a little rigid and it's not intended to be that way. When subs see that you want to maintain a safe work environment and are selecting on quality/value not just price, the good ones will like being on your job.
  • Set up very clear payment terms that are as close to work in place price as you can get. Then pay on time - no exceptions. One of the biggest obstacles you will face as an OB is credibility to pay. When the express concerns about you vs builders they work for a big lever for you is favorable payment terms. Many builders are net 30+ days. You can go to net 10 or less for almost no added cost. Let them know the pool is fully funded and demonstrate if needed. One of my biggest learning's in the house project is Money Talks. A lot of friends and experts told me I'd have a big problem with this. So I worked it hard and found it very easy to deal with.
  • Enjoy the process, celebrate the little successes along the way. Buy pizza for a crew every now and then when they complete an important milestone. Well managed construction with great craft labor is really a lot of fun!
I hope this is helpful.

Chris
 
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I work with OB in Southern California and answer these questions often.

#2. 20% is average on most jobs, I advise that as you save during the process you will reinvest these savings back into the pool with upgrades so in the end what you will have a superior product at the same bid price of local builders.
#3. Time commitment on your part is not as much as one would think, it’s knowing when to be on site and most importantly what to be looking for. The time schedule goes at your speed because you are scheduling the subs. Most often you are letting the subs do their work that you feel comfortable they understand what you expect of them.
#4. Time frame from drawing to plaster is an unknown due to the work load of the subs and their prior commitments. Typically 3 months if scheduling for a winter start and add one or more months for summer, 6 weeks is the fastest I have had a customer complete his project and most permits allow for 6 months be for an extension is needed.
#5. In my area Pentair is most the common equipment used.
#6. Pool designs are most commonly done by the home owner at no cost or a landscape architect that start at $2,500 and go up from their. 99% of homeowners draw their own pool design.
#7. The best way to keep cost down is to first not make any major mistakes during the process that need to be corrected, when you do a OB you eat the cost for the corrections not a pool builder. Second is educating yourself on the process. You are taking on a lot of responsibility but education and planning is the key.
#9. The first big decision you need to make is if you are willing to make the commitment, you will be trading time for saving money. Second is scheduling around your schedule but remember the process goes at your speed and schedule.
#10. Allowing time in between each inspection gives a buffer in case of any hang ups. Quality of work depends on how much research you do on the subs. If it’s hard to talk/work with a specific sub in the beginning it will only get harder once you give them money. Good subs like workin behind good subs so once you find one they usually know others.

The process itself is simple, you need to educate yourself so you know what to expect of your subs prior to that phase occurring.
 
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Reactions: Newdude
setsailsoon said:
I just finished the house and pool is next. A lot of the OB house learning's apply but not all so here's what I think is relevant:

  1. Good builders bring a lot to the table and work hard. If you are the builder expect to do the same. A construction background is invaluable specific areas that help are civil/excavation, plumbing, and electrical. Experience managing and coordinating sub-contractors is a huge help also. If you are missing any of this expertise all is not lost. You'll just need a good pool construction consultant and this will erode some of the savings but way less than learning everything the hard way. I'd also recommend you check out DIY Pools and Spa's. They do the plans very competitively and offer expert advice on all aspects - even contractors in your area. I've used them for the design and am very happy with them.
  2. I think the % savings depends a lot on your location. Pool builders in my area are so busy that all the good ones are booked out over a year. Also, supply chain and labor issues are reducing the number of pools they can build each year so their gross margin is much higher than normal. I have seen at least 40% savings compared to a quality builder on the house. From what I've seen locally on pool pricing I think the savings is about the same.
  3. Ideally you are best served by being on site full-time. If not, at least half-time and make sure you don't have a set pattern. This way they don't know when you might show up. You also need to spend a LOT of time pre-qualifying subs. I required to see work in progress from each sub. Even if you don't know much about construction look for good house-keeping and orderly work with appropriate tools and nobody standing around doing nothing. Also ask to see their workman's comp experience factor. Safe contractors always perform better quality work.
  4. Construction for the pool should be 2-3 months or better. But lead-time for materials will drive your schedule more than the actual construction time. In my case concrete commitment will certainly be a big factor. Planning the pool took us about two months including 2 revisions by the designer. Don't forget about permit time. You will need to supply a stamped set of drawings to start the process. Response time varies a lot by location. In my case it is about 3 weeks.
  5. Just search this site you'll find fans of all the major brands but it seems to me our experts generally favor Pentair.
  6. Simple is cheap. Simple oval or rectangular with no spa, no features. Small is also cheap. DIY pools has an estimator tool you can use for free. Just remember conceptual designs that have no engineering are usually +50%. Once you have the engineering approved for construction you may be +20%. It's amazing how quantities grow when you get the details of design completed.
  7. Complete the design and then don't change anything. Make very certain stakeholders in the project (in my case, my wife) really, really know what they are getting before the design is complete. Show them examples if needed. If change are made, the later the change the more it costs. People don't realize the "knock-on" costs of change 'till they do construction themselves.
  8. Sorry I don't know subs in your area but I bet we have people on here that do.
  9. The devil is in the details for construction. Look at construction details on the plans and make sure you know what they require. Subs will occasionally ask you for clarifications. Make sure they know they need to ask questions before they start work. Don't rush planning. If you've never done this before make sure you are very thorough and ask the designer to explain any aspect of the design requirements that are not clear to you.
  10. Check your subs out thoroughly yourself or you and an expert consultant. Ask each one to describe the sequence of work they perform and where the interfaces are with other subs. Managing the interfaces are one of the key responsibilities of the builder. Set up a kick-off meeting with the contractors that will interface. For example your gunite contractor will interface with the excavation contractor and the plumbing and electrical. Everybody needs to know who's doing what and when. Otherwise one holds the other up and you get left holding the bill for a delay. Also they need to talk details. There are a lot of ways to perform many of the different activities and the all work. What doesn't work is when one contractor is planning for "A" but they get there to start and are left with "B" that they've never seen. You will never know about all of these items which is why it's best to have them participate in kick-off meetings even if they want to charge you an extra hour. Expect you will need to lead the meeting with thinks like:
    1. Work start and end time
    2. Contact info for each crew
    3. Safety requirements
    4. Dealing with neighbors (Don't let neighbors direct your crew. You deal with this before they start work)
Other things to remember:
  • Set up a schedule using open sourced scheduling software. Build the activities based on factual quoted duration's and build in the logic. Things will go wrong so build in 10-15% float for all activities. Update the schedule at least weekly based on real progress and use the schedule to "ping" contractors and suppliers at least a month ahead of time. When they are a month out ping weekly. When they are a week out confirm start date daily. This is the only way to stay on schedule and budget.
  • Select contractors on value not price
  • Be absolutely clear in writing with each contractor on their complete scope of work. Meet to be sure they are clear.
  • It's good to maintain a respectful relationship.
  • If something is going wrong address it immediately. Typical example: anything that jeopardizes safety is not to be tolerated. Everybody should be made aware of this at the kick-off meeting. Deal with the crew leader on this immediately and make sure it's corrected before work continues.
  • All this sounds a little rigid and it's not intended to be that way. When subs see that you want to maintain a safe work environment and are selecting on quality/value not just price, the good ones will like being on your job.
  • Set up very clear payment terms that are as close to work in place price as you can get. Then pay on time - no exceptions. One of the biggest obstacles you will face as an OB is credibility to pay. When the express concerns about you vs builders they work for a big lever for you is favorable payment terms. Many builders are net 30+ days. You can go to net 10 or less for almost no added cost. Let them know the pool is fully funded and demonstrate if needed. One of my biggest learning's in the house project is Money Talks. A lot of friends and experts told me I'd have a big problem with this. So I worked it hard and found it very easy to deal with.
  • Enjoy the process, celebrate the little successes along the way. Buy pizza for a crew every now and then when they complete an important milestone. Well managed construction with great craft labor is really a lot of fun!
I hope this is helpful.

Chris
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for your feedback and recommendations...this is very helpful and exactly what I need. Merry Christmas!
 
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Reactions: setsailsoon
AQUA~HOLICS said:
I work with OB in Southern California and answer these questions often.

#2. 20% is average on most jobs, I advise that as you save during the process you will reinvest these savings back into the pool with upgrades so in the end what you will have a superior product at the same bid price of local builders.
#3. Time commitment on your part is not as much as one would think, it’s knowing when to be on site and most importantly what to be looking for. The time schedule goes at your speed because you are scheduling the subs. Most often you are letting the subs do their work that you feel comfortable they understand what you expect of them.
#4. Time frame from drawing to plaster is an unknown due to the work load of the subs and their prior commitments. Typically 3 months if scheduling for a winter start and add one or more months for summer, 6 weeks is the fastest I have had a customer complete his project and most permits allow for 6 months be for an extension is needed.
#5. In my area Pentair is most the common equipment used.
#6. Pool designs are most commonly done by the home owner at no cost or a landscape architect that start at $2,500 and go up from their. 99% of homeowners draw their own pool design.
#7. The best way to keep cost down is to first not make any major mistakes during the process that need to be corrected, when you do a OB you eat the cost for the corrections not a pool builder. Second is educating yourself on the process. You are taking on a lot of responsibility but education and planning is the key.
#9. The first big decision you need to make is if you are willing to make the commitment, you will be trading time for saving money. Second is scheduling around your schedule but remember the process goes at your speed and schedule.
#10. Allowing time in between each inspection gives a buffer in case of any hang ups. Quality of work depends on how much research you do on the subs. If it’s hard to talk/work with a specific sub in the beginning it will only get harder once you give them money. Good subs like workin behind good subs so once you find one they usually know others.

The process itself is simple, you need to educate yourself so you know what to expect of your subs prior to that phase occurring.
Click to expand...
Great feedback...thanks for your insights and recommendations!
 
Jimrahbe said:
JH,

Welcome to TFP pool... :shark:

We have several members that have done BYOP, so it will be interesting to see what they have to say.

I'd say a lot has to do with your background.

What do you know about pools and how they operate in general?

Building a pool is a construction project, what is your background in project management?

It would also be important to know what type of pool you want to build and how simple or elaborate you want it to be.

Ballpark, what is your budget for the whole project?

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...
I have project management experience at work (hi-tech) and have a basic understanding of pools. I'm looking for something practical and simple (rectangular with spa and water volcano in tanning ledge/sun shelf) with a swimming flume like Fast Lane or Baidu for my swimmer wife. My budget is $100k.
 
Are you talking about OB (Owner Build) or using BYOP (Build Your Own Pool), the service company that helps owners to build their own pool. These are two separate things.
You could save more with an OB, if you have the necessary knowledge.
BYOP (the company) assists with the engineering plans, permits, subs, etc - there is a fee for their services.
 
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proavia said:
Are you talking about OB (Owner Build) or using BYOP (Build Your Own Pool), the service company that helps owners to build their own pool. These are two separate things.
You could save more with an OB, if you have the necessary knowledge.
BYOP (the company) assists with the engineering plans, permits, subs, etc - there is a fee for their services.
Click to expand...
Good point and to add confusion in my county I had to get an OB waiver and some additional paper work for the building permit to do either.
 

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setsailsoon said:
Good point and to add confusion in my county I had to get an OB waiver and some additional paper work for the building permit to do either.
Click to expand...
The same requirement in my area for OB, legal paperwork stating you the homeowner must provide proof of liability/worker’s comp insurance for each of the trades and each trade obtain a current city business license in order to have the inspection permit signed off.
 
proavia said:
Are you talking about OB (Owner Build) or using BYOP (Build Your Own Pool), the service company that helps owners to build their own pool. These are two separate things.
You could save more with an OB, if you have the necessary knowledge.
BYOP (the company) assists with the engineering plans, permits, subs, etc - there is a fee for their services.
Click to expand...
I'm exploring both options, but was talking more generically about owner build.
 
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