Breaker tripping

[databrad]

Been having problems with the breaker tripping randomly over the last year or so. Replaced the capacitor a year ago on the booster. The breaker continues trip randomly but not consistent enough to pinpoint. Replaced the breaker for the one that seemed to trip the most. Had an electrician come out and verified everything was grounded properly and all electrical components were running as expected voltage wise but he couldn't duplicate while there so left it alone. Problem continued very randomly sometimes at startup or during a programmed cycle.

We have two on/off toggle light switches located at the pool equipment that turn the power on/off to the system.

Winter storm took out a lot of equipment and recently replaced and added new pieces (indicated below). Now that everything in place the installer connected everything and powered up the new panel but the breakers tripped immediately and will not stay on if the new panel is turned on. troubleshot for a while indicated he would have to research and got the main pump running directly while he researched.

Of the two switches the left on/off switches (noted above) the left is on and seems to power the main pump with no issues.

My deliemma and ask is if all the equipment has now effectively been replaced in the last two years and critical pieces replaced this week what could be or is causing the same continued issues? The only component that has an accessible capacitor is the booster which I have changed once and will be changing again on Tuesday.

House main breakers:
Dual - 30 Amp (pool / pump)
Dual - 20amp (pool / booster)
Dual - 20 Amp (jacuzzi / pool GFI)

Pool equipment:
Pentair Intelliflo VSF - new (previously Intelliflo VS+SVRS)
Pentair Booster LA01N - 2 years old
Jandy FloPro 1hp - new 2020
Pentair Mastertemp 400 - new 2020
Pentair CCP520 - new
Pentair intellichlor Salt CG IC40 - new
Peantiar Easytouch 8PSC - new
Spa air bell with spa side push button 10yrs old
Lights (1- pool / 1- spa) replaced light bulbs with LED in 2020
Pentair Screenlogic2 - new

Images of pool equipment and breaker inserted

 

[Jimrahbe]

D,

IntelliFlo pumps are known to produce random and false GFCI trips unless you have the right breaker and have the IntelliFlo on its own breaker.. (Can also have the SWCG on the same breaker)

Are your breakers still in the house or are they now in the EasyTouch where they should be???

Which breaker is tripping?

Run this quick test and tell us what happens.. With the system in Auto and pool mode, look at the pump's display and ensure it says "Display not Active" and that the IC40 has lights, does not matter which ones.. At the main panel, put the system into the SERVICE mode. Check to see that the pump has a display and it no longer says "Display not Active", and that all the lights on the IC40 are now off.. If you pass these tests, it means your pump and IntelliChlor are wired correctly. Now put the system back into Auto and pool mode... Note: .. it can take a couple of minutes for everything to fire back up..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[databrad]

Currently the breakers are still utilizing the house panel. I would think that with the new panel it should get wired to use that instead of the house.
Since I cant power the main Easytouch without tripping the breakers I am not sure how to perform your test recommendations.

When it tripped in the past it was usually the left side breaker on the house breaker box (sometimes both) but if you turn on the panel now it trips all but the jacuzzi and GFI everytime.

 

[ImpalaSS]

My guess is that you have a GFCI breaker feeding the control panel. This will cause the GFCI to trip because you will have unbalanced 120v loads on a 240v GFCI breaker. I'd also guess that the neutral pigtail on the GFCI breaker is not connected properly. This is why your jacuzzi trips the GFCI instantly.

Nothing will work properly until you get the equipment wiring moved to the control panel from your house panel.

 

[Jimrahbe]

D,

I am confused.. You said it randomly tripped the breaker.. then you said that you can't power on the EasyTouch without tripping the breaker..

If the problem is random just do the following..

You just walk over the the EasyTouch and put it in the Service mode.. Use the "Mode" button.. It selects between Auto, Service, and TimeOut You can see what mode you are in looking at the little LCD display.. You don't need to be near the circuit breakers to perform the tests.

If you now have a constant problem then something is not wired right.


Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

D,

So I re-read your post and see where it now pops your Jacuzzi circuit breaker.. I can't see the whole breaker in the pic, but it does not look like a GFCI breaker to me. Plus your Pool pump breaker is a GFCI breaker.. And your Booster pump breaker is also a GFCI breaker.

Trying to power the EasyTouch using three different GFCI breakers just does not make any sense to me.. The whole point of having a load center inside the EasyTouch is so that all your pool related circuit breaker are right there..

In any case, just turn off the breaker for the Jacuzzi and run the tests.

Thanks

Jim R.

 

[databrad]

Thanks for feedback and input. Had a real electrician come and spend the day re-wiring the whole system. New direct power from main breaker panel to the Easytouch with dedicated breakers for each piece of equipment. Updated junction boxes, GFI, ran new conduit and wiring to equipment... an electrical makeover. Everything has power and no tripping. I do have some other controller issues but electrician is coming back to work on them as he isn't an expert in Pentair controllers. Their attention to detail in electrical was 1000% better than 2 previous electricians. Thanks again for the input as it was helpful

 

[Jimrahbe]

Brad,

That sounds perfect to me...

Tell us what "Controller issues" you are having and we might be able to get you, or your new electrician, pointed in the right direction..

Thanks for the follow up,

Jim R.

 

[databrad]

Brad,

That sounds perfect to me...

Tell us what "Controller issues" you are having and we might be able to get you, or your new electrician, pointed in the right direction..

Thanks for the follow up,

Jim R.

I have a few things that are still not functioning properly. Direction or insight would be appreciated. Attached pictures of current wiring at the panel.

The pool lights. Have traditional 120V pool and spa lights with color changing LED (pic attached). They are not the intellibrite, etc. We had them wired originally to two switches near the back door for easy on/off. I had them wired to the new panel with GFI breakers/outlet and ran to relay 6 (pool light) and 7 (spa light). However, I don't think they are wired correctly as niether will not turn on when located on Aux 6/7 and selected at the controller. Current wiring image attached. If you take either relay and plug it into 2-speed pump jumper on the control board they turn on but never turn off so I know they are getting power.

The Spa air blower was working before the panel change with the push button by the spa. I wanted the controller to be able to turn it on /off so we removed the AS-2 box and ran the connection to the control panel and placed it on Aux 3 (currently). If you turn the blower on at the main switch located on the blower it comes on instantly but you can not turn it off from the control panel. Only way to turn it back off is to switch the blower off at the blower itself. Think this is just a wiring issue as well but unsure as to how to correct at the moment.

The heater seems to be wired correctly but I can't get the heater to come on from the control panel, only manually at the heater itself.

The electrician said he was not an expert on the panel but wanted to be and would research as it had been a long day so he was coming back this week to TS.

Also looking for direction on how to set the filter pump speed to run higher RPM when our pool cleaner (pentair racer connected to inlet in pool walll) is running (have a booster pump) as it seems to not move the cleaner fast enough and then throttle back down after the cleaning schedule is complete.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Brad,

I can tell you that it appear to me that your SWCG transformer is wired wrong.. The SWCG transformer should only get power when the Pump/Filter relay is closed. It looks to me like the transformer is wired to the line side of the relay.. If your cell has any lights when the pump is off, or you are in the Service mode, then the transformer is wired wrong. It should get power from the load side of the relay.

Something is being powered by the load side of the Pump/Filter relay.. I am not sure what??? I assume you have an IntelliFlo VS pump.. If so, it should get constant AC power and is NOT controlled by the pump/Filter relay.

You have 8 relays, but it appears that only 6 of them are connected to the main board.. I'd want all of them connected and I'd want to make sure that each relay is the one it should be.. You can plug any relay into any Aux plug.. I'd want to double check that the Pump/Filter relay is plugged into J8 and that Aux 1 is connected to J9, and Aux 2 is connected to J10, etc... through J15.

Your heater is connected correctly to the Gas Heater plug on the main board.. The heater has to be on and set to remote operation. It is also set to max temp.. The EasyTouch just closes a small relay on the main board that connects the green and yellow wires at the heater plug. When these two wires are connected the heater will run. Basically the EasyTouch just monitors its water temp sensor. When the water is below the set point you have in the EasyTouch, the relay closes and this completed the firemans loop and turns the heater on. When the water reaches the set point the relay opens and the heater will quit heating..

If the pool and spa lights come on when plugged into the two speed pump plug, then you are just not turning on the Aux 6 and Aux 7.. ???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[ImpalaSS]

Without focusing on what may or may not be wired correct, thats a pretty clean install. Its always nice NOT to see a bird nest of wiring in these control panels.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Without focusing on what may or may not be wired correct, thats a pretty clean install. Its always nice NOT to see a bird nest of wiring in these control panels.

I thought the same thing, but failed to say anything.

Jim R.

 

[databrad]

Thanks for the explanation and will get the electrician to correct the first part for sure.

I am not sure however that I understand what would cause the relays for the spa air blower and the lights to not be able to operate via the CP.
Spa air blower- has power at the main switch but the CP aux button doesn't turn it off even though it is wired to the relay. If you turn. On the main. The blower turns on immediately regardless of the open/closed relay status and you can't turn it off unless you turn the main switch off located at the blower.

Lights - pool and Spa lights are wired to individually to aux relay 6 and 7 but don't turn on or off when Pressing the associated Aux button (no click sound) the light above the buttons turn on/off but not the lights.

Since this is no longer about breaker tripping should I move this into a different thread so that the issues and resolutions are more easily tracked?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

Spa air blower- has power at the main switch but the CP aux button doesn't turn it off even though it is wired to the relay. If you turn. On the main. The blower turns on immediately regardless of the open/closed relay status and you can't turn it off unless you turn the main switch off located at the blower.

I'm trying to visually trace your Blower wires from Aux3. I'm not certain, but it looks like the left-hand Load side wire marked Blower is circling around and connecting to the Line side of Aux6 directly under Aux3. It's possible I'm seeing this wrong due to all the black wires on top of each other, but if it really is connected that way, that's a problem.

 

[databrad]

I'm trying to visually trace your Blower wires from Aux3. I'm not certain, but it looks like the left-hand Load side wire marked Blower is circling around and connecting to the Line side of Aux6 directly under Aux3. It's possible I'm seeing this wrong due to all the black wires on top of each other, but if it really is connected that way, that's a problem.

The black lines labeled blower go to the blower/switch at its source. There are two short wires coming from the water feature Aux/ relay to provide CP power to the relay possibly?