Bought a home with a FROG pool - need help 🙃

[podcastpool]

Hi TFP!

About two months ago I bought a home that had an inground pool installed approximately 6 years ago. Currently it’s using a sand filter and frog mineral bacpac system. There is a salt chlorinator mounted on the wall that still has power going to it but doesn’t appear to be used anymore.

At first we thought we loved the Frog system, however as the heat has started to crank up, I think the low chlorine levels have presented an issue.

#1 - we are going through bacpacs every 4-5 days.

#2 - last week, green algae started to appear on the walls.

So, I did what any good new pool owner does and took the water to Leslie’s to test ( I know, I know)

Chlorine/FC was .14 ppm
Alkalinity was 0
Ph was 6.4
CH was 49
CYA was 87
Phos was 567

Sales guy said that the algae grows from phosphates so sold me some nophos to put in the skimmer. He said put 40oz in on Friday night and then 48 hrs later, backwash and put in the rest (that would be tonight)

After doing more research that night, I came to the conclusion that I needed at least .5 FC even with the frog system. So I went back to Leslie’s and they advised me to add 30lbs of baking soda to help with the alkalinity & ph then to use their “chlorine brite shock” to increase the chlorine levels 2 hrs after introducing the baking soda.

So I did all of that, after applying the baking soda the pool turned cloudy (duh) and then after the “shock” the water started to turn a clear green. This morning (Sunday morning) I woke up to a bunch of brownish gunk at the bottom of the pool that my robot vac seems to have no problem cleaning up but the water still is very cloudy and a clear green. Before the algae started to form, our water was crystal clear.

So, I’m trying to see where to go from here. I don’t want to keep following the “Leslie’s plan” but also not fully convinced to go off of the frog system yet. My first question is should I apply the second dose of the nophos tonight? Second question is do I SLAM from here or give it a few days to see how all of the stuff I did impacts it and retest with a quality kit?

 

[PoolStored]

Welcome to TFP!!

First thing you need is your own test kit. Here are the kits we recommend. Get one ordered now. Link-->Test Kits Compared

Second, remove any mineral pacs from the frog system. They add metals to the pool (specifically silver chloride). No bueno for el poolo. Metals - Further Reading

While you are waiting for the kit, add 5ppm of liquid chlorine to the pool daily. NOTHING ELSE.

Download Pool Math and configure your pool. It will help you with how much liquid chlorine to add to add 5ppm. Link-->PoolMath

When your kit arrives, post a full set of results.

Follow the SLAM process to clear your pool. Link-->SLAM Process

Proof is in the pudding. Link-->How Clear is TFP Clear?

 

[podcastpool]

Hey @PoolStored - Thanks for the prompt response and links! Quick question, if I remove the mineral pack and follow SLAM, am I correct in assuming that the chlorine will eventually oxidize all of the remaining metals in the water and my filter and vacuum will get it out?

 

[mknauss]

The green is very likely copper. Best time to get rid of it is before it stains. You need to exchange the pool water to fresh water.

 

[podcastpool]

Here’s what the water looked like last night

 

[podcastpool]

Here’s what it looked like this morning

 

[podcastpool]

This is what it looks like right now

 

[Donldson]

Welcome to TFP!

The guys above have you on the right path, I just wanted to talk about the Frog's "0.5 ppm FC" claim. If (and if you've skimmed here you know it's a very big "if") the pool store CYA test is accurate, then 0.5 ppm FC is virtually zero active chlorine in the water. That means that while the silver and copper in your water from the the Bac Pac and algaecides might be keeping algae from getting out of control, it's not helping with things like bacteria and the low chlorine might not be able to keep the water sanitary. The water may only be a little cloudy, but it might not be safe to swim in. That's the main problem with these low-chlorine systems, they're only concerned with unpleasant looking but relatively harmless algae and ignore the stuff that can actually make you sick.

My house also came with a Frog pool and I used it for about two seasons with water ranging from "fine" to "endless cloudiness". Since getting rid of it and following TFPC 15 years ago my water has ranged from "really good" to "impossibly clear and comfortable". All I'm saying is not to be afraid to ditch it if you're not getting the results you want, there are better options out there.

 

[PoolStored]

As @mknauss indicated, No, once the metals are in, the only way to remove them is replace water. It is best to replace the water, but that is one option.

As far as I can tell from the SDS, Frog only contains silver chloride now. What is the EXACT name of the cartridge you are using? How long have you been using them?

It is possible, if you are using the BAC PAC, that is CYA and chlorine, not the mineral system.

Post up the exact products you have been using.

In either case, get the kit ordered.

 

[podcastpool]

Welcome to TFP!

The guys above have you on the right path, I just wanted to talk about the Frog's "0.5 ppm FC" claim. If (and if you've skimmed here you know it's a very big "if") the pool store CYA test is accurate, then 0.5 ppm FC is virtually zero active chlorine in the water. That means that while the silver and copper in your water from the the Bac Pac and algaecides might be keeping algae from getting out of control, it's not helping with things like bacteria and the low chlorine might not be able to keep the water sanitary. The water may only be a little cloudy, but it might not be safe to swim in. That's the main problem with these low-chlorine systems, they're only concerned with unpleasant looking but relatively harmless algae and ignore the stuff that can actually make you sick.

My house also came with a Frog pool and I used it for about two seasons with water ranging from "fine" to "endless cloudiness". Since getting rid of it and following TFPC 15 years ago my water has ranged from "really good" to "impossibly clear and comfortable". All I'm saying is not to be afraid to ditch it if you're not getting the results you want, there are better options out there.

Thanks for this! Have you noticed any difference in water quality on the skin? That’s my main concern

 

[Donldson]

Have you noticed any difference in water quality on the skin? That’s my main concern

Yes, in the positive direction.

It's counter-intuitive to think that more chlorine will make water feel like there's less chlorine, but it works because what we associate with chlorine is actually the byproducts of chlorine reacting with things. The smell, the eye stinging, the itchiness, etc are all from there being an excess of chloramines (a blanket term for chlorine byproducts) in the water because there's not enough chlorine to break them down quickly. Following the correct ratios of FC to CYA that we teach here and outline on this page: FC/CYA Levels create a good balance between having enough chlorine in the water to sanitize it and oxidize waste while also keeping it below any discomfort levels.

When we get in our water there is a wiff of chlorine as it reacts with sunscreen and sweat and the like, but in general our water has no smell. It's as comfortable as anything, we have a few friends and family with sensitive skin and have in fact gotten compliments calling it one of the few pools they like to swim in. I've even had more than one person ask what kind of low chlorine system I used because they barely noticed it. For the ones I trusted not to freak out, they were floored hearing that there was something like 7 ppm FC in the water. The others I just told them it was a system I found online for keeping levels in perfect balance

 

[podcastpool]

As @mknauss indicated, No, once the metals are in, the only way to remove them is replace water. It is best to replace the water, but that is one option.

As far as I can tell from the SDS, Frog only contains silver chloride now. What is the EXACT name of the cartridge you are using? How long have you been using them?

It is possible, if you are using the BAC PAC, that is CYA and chlorine, not the mineral system.

Post up the exact products you have been using.

In either case, get the kit ordered.

I just bought the home so I’ve been using the frog products for about 2 months now. I believe the previous owner had been using it for at least two years.

As @mknauss indicated, No, once the metals are in, the only way to remove them is replace water. It is best to replace the water, but that is one option.

As far as I can tell from the SDS, Frog only contains silver chloride now. What is the EXACT name of the cartridge you are using? How long have you been using them?

It is possible, if you are using the BAC PAC, that is CYA and chlorine, not the mineral system.

Post up the exact products you have been using.

In either case, get the kit ordered.

I've been using the Frog system since we moved in 2 months ago. I believe the previous owner installed it roughly 2-3 years ago. It was originally a saltwater system. I had a pool guy come check it out when we bought the house, and he said everything looked fine but that the mineral reservoir (it has to be replaced yearly) needed to be replaced and to keep adding a BAC PAC every week. So I bought this Mineral Reservoir. I've been adding one of these BACPACs weekly. When I tested the water at Leslies, the copper was 0.4 ppm and iron was 0.1 ppm. We have added water to the pool probably 3-4 times since we've moved in by using the water hose from our house (city water). We still aren't sure if it's a small leak somewhere or just evaporation from the brutal MS heat.

This is the NoPhos I added on Friday night.

I used arm & hammer baking soda Saturday Night & 2 pouches of this "shock" last night.

I'll have a test kit next week. I have 4 pool shops in my town, so will try to see if one of the "approved" tests is available local, if not I'll order it tomorrow.

 

[podcastpool]

Yes, in the positive direction.

It's counter-intuitive to think that more chlorine will make water feel like there's less chlorine, but it works because what we associate with chlorine is actually the byproducts of chlorine reacting with things. The smell, the eye stinging, the itchiness, etc are all from there being an excess of chloramines (a blanket term for chlorine byproducts) in the water because there's not enough chlorine to break them down quickly. Following the correct ratios of FC to CYA that we teach here and outline on this page: FC/CYA Levels create a good balance between having enough chlorine in the water to sanitize it and oxidize waste while also keeping it below any discomfort levels.

When we get in our water there is a wiff of chlorine as it reacts with sunscreen and sweat and the like, but in general our water has no smell. It's as comfortable as anything, we have a few friends and family with sensitive skin and have in fact gotten compliments calling it one of the few pools they like to swim in. I've even had more than one person ask what kind of low chlorine system I used because they barely noticed it. For the ones I trusted not to freak out, they were floored hearing that there was something like 7 ppm FC in the water. The others I just told them it was a system I found online for keeping levels in perfect balance

This all sounds great. Happy to give it a go!

 

[podcastpool]

Welcome to TFP!!

First thing you need is your own test kit. Here are the kits we recommend. Get one ordered now. Link-->Test Kits Compared

Second, remove any mineral pacs from the frog system. They add metals to the pool (specifically silver chloride). No bueno for el poolo. Metals - Further Reading

While you are waiting for the kit, add 5ppm of liquid chlorine to the pool daily. NOTHING ELSE.

Download Pool Math and configure your pool. It will help you with how much liquid chlorine to add to add 5ppm. Link-->PoolMath

When your kit arrives, post a full set of results.

Follow the SLAM process to clear your pool. Link-->SLAM Process

Proof is in the pudding. Link-->How Clear is TFP Clear?

Am I calculating this correctly? I added my pool size to the app.

 

[PoolStored]

one of these BACPACs weekly.

Great. That is Trichlor, doesn't contain metals. Don't know if the previous owner used another product.

When I tested the water at Leslies, the copper was 0.4 ppm and iron was 0.1 ppm.

In general, less than 0.5 ppm copper will likely not have much effect on pool water. 0.3 ppm is even safer. Over 0.5 ppm you may have some staining or water discoloration, depending on pH.

Your choice if you want to exchange water. Pool store testing isn't REALLY accurate, but the only test we recommend at the pool store is metals.

If it were I, I'd slam, see if there is any green left due to copper and make a choice at that point. YMMV.

 

[PoolStored]

Am I calculating this correctly? I added my pool size to the app.

Spot on.

The best prices for liquid chlorine are Walmart Pool essentials liquid chlorine and pinch a penny, if you have one.

 

[podcastpool]

Perfect, will report back once I can get a test kit in hand.

 

[Donldson]

If you're going to see if you can find a kit locally, make sure it is a Taylor k-2006. We've had a few people get sold on the 2005 as virtually the same, but the most important test (the one that can measure up to 50 ppm FC and CC in 0.5 ppm increments) is only found in the 2006. Leslie's might carry it with their own branding, it should have the test labeled as "FAS-DPD". If it's just labeled "DPD" then it's the wrong one.

Happy hunting

 

[podcastpool]

I will keep that in mind, I'll likely end up just going with the TF-100.

On a side note - According to Leslie's tests my CYA is 87-92 (2 different tests). According to what I'm seeing, I'm going to want that to be closer to 30-40, correct? It seems like the best way to lower is to replace the water. Does this mean draining the pool completely and refilling?

 

[PoolStored]

On a side note - According to Leslie's tests my CYA is 87-92 (2 different tests). According to what I'm seeing, I'm going to want that to be closer to 30-40, correct? It seems like the best way to lower is to replace the water. Does this mean draining the pool completely and refilling?

Wait for you test kit.

CYA of 30-60 is just fine in a chlorine pool.

See no drain water exchange here:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com