Blank slate/Pool build in Maryland

[Captchaos]

I've been trying to drop off a sample of water to the pool store/builder once per week to maintain my warranty based on their request. I call later about half the time just to check my own numbers and usually they are very close but they usually only give me FC and pH numbers. I'm having trouble finding liquid chlorine anywhere now so I stopped by there yesterday afternoon and asked about the sample I dropped off last Thursday since I forgot to call. This time they gave me the printout from the "ClearCare Expert Computerized Water Analysis System" which said the following:

FC 1.51 OK
TC 1.92 OK
CC 0.41 HIGH (handwritten "SHOCK" next to it)
pH 7.6 OK
TA (Adjusted) 15 (crossed out) Analysis LOW (crossed out and "OK" written by hand)
CH 144 LOW (handwritten [add] "7lbs calcium")
CYA 64 HIGH
Copper 0
Iron 0
Nitrates 0
Phosphates 2954 HIGH
Saturation Index -0.2 BALANCED


Here is where I am confused; my hand tests with the TF-100 kit were indicating my CYA was only at about 32, so I added another sock's worth on Friday which was empty by Saturday because I am losing FC at a rapid rate. How is the computerized test showing 64 when my hand test was showing 32? Am I doing it that wrong? I thought you added drops until you couldn't see the black dot anymore. I was under the impression that you were not supposed to be able to see the black dot at all. I didn't have a chance to check CYA last night but if I was really at 64 and I added more, I'm gonna have to drain some of the water and refill to lower the level.

The other question I have is that the pool store clerk and printout said I needed to "shock." I didn't get any indication of how much to add, how long to leave it at shock level, or any guidance at all. The pool builder gave me a bottle of TurboShock during pool school and told me to add 2lbs per week, along with 4oz of algaecide. That seemed completely unnecessary to me so I was only adding about 1/2lb of TurboShock per week which I realize was not shocking but only increasing my FC along with the liquid chlorine I've been adding.

I also added 4lbs of calcium hardener which is all I had. The pool store suggested I add 7lbs. The printout at the bottom says to add 17.25lbs of "Poolife Calcium Plus at 5lb increments, waiting 6 hours between additions. Pool Math suggested I add 32lbs. Which one is correct?

A couple of samples ago they told me that I "have Phosphates and all the levels are off when you have Phosphates." I did some research here and completely ignored that because I am maintaining my pool on a near daily basis. The interesting thing is this time the printout shows Phosphates are super high based on their "acceptable range" of 0 to 125ppb. I find it odd how last time they mentioned Phosphates they would only tell me I had to fix that before any levels were accurate but this time it wasn't even mentioned.

Finally, my cartridge filter has not been cleaned yet because I was told there would be a "pool school 2" which it would be done and I should not do it until pressure increases by 10 PSI over normal operating pressure. It has not increased so I have not cleaned it and I have not heard from them regarding the second session of pool school. I'm going to go ahead and clean it this weekend as well for good measure even though it has only increased by like 3 PSI since the equipment was started.

 

[PoolGate]

I've been trying to drop off a sample of water to the pool store/builder once per week to maintain my warranty based on their request. I call later about half the time just to check my own numbers and usually they are very close but they usually only give me FC and pH numbers. I'm having trouble finding liquid chlorine anywhere now so I stopped by there yesterday afternoon and asked about the sample I dropped off last Thursday since I forgot to call. This time they gave me the printout from the "ClearCare Expert Computerized Water Analysis System" which said the following:

FC 1.51 OK
TC 1.92 OK
CC 0.41 HIGH (handwritten "SHOCK" next to it)
pH 7.6 OK
TA (Adjusted) 15 (crossed out) Analysis LOW (crossed out and "OK" written by hand)
CH 144 LOW (handwritten [add] "7lbs calcium")
CYA 64 HIGH
Copper 0
Iron 0
Nitrates 0
Phosphates 2954 HIGH
Saturation Index -0.2 BALANCED


Here is where I am confused; my hand tests with the TF-100 kit were indicating my CYA was only at about 32, so I added another sock's worth on Friday which was empty by Saturday because I am losing FC at a rapid rate. How is the computerized test showing 64 when my hand test was showing 32? Am I doing it that wrong? I thought you added drops until you couldn't see the black dot anymore. I was under the impression that you were not supposed to be able to see the black dot at all. I didn't have a chance to check CYA last night but if I was really at 64 and I added more, I'm gonna have to drain some of the water and refill to lower the level.

The other question I have is that the pool store clerk and printout said I needed to "shock." I didn't get any indication of how much to add, how long to leave it at shock level, or any guidance at all. The pool builder gave me a bottle of TurboShock during pool school and told me to add 2lbs per week, along with 4oz of algaecide. That seemed completely unnecessary to me so I was only adding about 1/2lb of TurboShock per week which I realize was not shocking but only increasing my FC along with the liquid chlorine I've been adding.

I also added 4lbs of calcium hardener which is all I had. The pool store suggested I add 7lbs. The printout at the bottom says to add 17.25lbs of "Poolife Calcium Plus at 5lb increments, waiting 6 hours between additions. Pool Math suggested I add 32lbs. Which one is correct?

A couple of samples ago they told me that I "have Phosphates and all the levels are off when you have Phosphates." I did some research here and completely ignored that because I am maintaining my pool on a near daily basis. The interesting thing is this time the printout shows Phosphates are super high based on their "acceptable range" of 0 to 125ppb. I find it odd how last time they mentioned Phosphates they would only tell me I had to fix that before any levels were accurate but this time it wasn't even mentioned.

Finally, my cartridge filter has not been cleaned yet because I was told there would be a "pool school 2" which it would be done and I should not do it until pressure increases by 10 PSI over normal operating pressure. It has not increased so I have not cleaned it and I have not heard from them regarding the second session of pool school. I'm going to go ahead and clean it this weekend as well for good measure even though it has only increased by like 3 PSI since the equipment was started.

LOL Dude! Just because you have to have pool store testing for your builders needs doesn't make those tests any more accurate or their advice any more valid. Follow the TFP methods. For the CYA you can't measure 32 so if over 30 it would be 40. I used the 50 ppt CYA sample and I was able to see the dot. So that is how I test now with the dot slightly visible. My CYA is perfect and my chlorine loss is minimal. 1.92 is actually funny for chlorine! If they left that sample sit around the chlorine will quickly dissipate out of the water too. Trust your TF-100!!!

 

[Captchaos]

I didn't realize I was just supposed to round up on the CYA test. I didn't realize there was a CYA sample either, I will look into that.

I've been following TFP the entire time and the pool is crystal clear, except when I am adding CYA. That takes 1-2 days to go back to clear but other than that, I have had no issues with the TFP method other than chasing liquid chlorine store to store and dealing with always adding it. I'm actually thinking I may come ahead adding a SWG at this point between time, gas, hassle, and liquid chlorine costs.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

the pool is crystal clear, except when I am adding CYA. That takes 1-2 days to go back to clear

Odd, I've never had CYA make water cloudy. Now calcium can do that, and it may take a day or so to clear, but not CYA as a rule.

Maddie

 

[kimkats]

CYA test (oh how I hate this test) = GLANCE only!

Mix the CYA stuff first and let it sit while you do the rest of the tests. Now pour the mixture to the first line (100). GLANCE in. If you see the dot with the GLANCE go line to line until you don't see the dot with a GLANCE and call it there.

As stated above-trust YOUR testing! Your testing is not trying to sell you anything!

Kim

 

[Captchaos]

I am still having difficulty keeping any chlorine in the pool. I'm starting to wonder if either my expectations are too high, I'm using garbage liquid chlorine, or my pool holds more water than I thought.

I burn about 1/2 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine per day, even on days that are not sunny. Pool Math indicates this is about 3.5 PPM for my 22,000 gallon pool. Checking the chlorine every other day, I always end up with tests that show 0.0 PPM on the second day (1 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine every 2 days lost). My CYA was measured as 64 by the pool company, but my tests come out much lower. For example, here is 50 PPM on my CYA test. I cropped the picture but this is with my phone from head height to the tube at waist height. This looks to me like I have less than 50 PPM in there, but I am just an amateur. Please ignore the ape's hand holding the CYA tube.

 

[Captchaos]

I feel like I should mention that my pool is still and has almost always been crystal clear (save for two multi-inch-in-a-short-period rain events). I think it's because I am keeping up with it and just restocking the chlorine thanks to TFP and this forum. Today I dumped in a gallon of 10% chlorine and a little bit of shock that I bought when everybody in town was out of liquid chlorine. My tests after a couple of hours showed 6.5 PPM and 0.0 PPM CC. Perhaps it is normal to burn 3.5 PPM per day regardless of sunny or cloudy? I am concerned what will happen in the winter when I am not checking every two days and dumping in chlorine.

Based on this, it's costing me about $2.50/day in chlorine. That seems a lot higher than I was expecting.

 

[kimkats]

Your CYA is lower than 50. Even at a glance I see that dot. If you want you can use tablets to add FC and CYA at the same time. Just keep an eye on it. Do you use pool math? It has a section that tells you want adding this or that will add to your water. That way you can know if you use 6 tablets you will add xx CYA.

Every pool is different. The trees or lack of trees around the pool, big bather load, small kids or adults that don't get out to heed natures call, animals that drink out of the pool (like my cats), etc all work together to "add" stuff to the pool that can use up the FC.

I think you should add chlorine every day during the summer. You really don't want your FC to get below the minimum level for your CYA. Shhhhhhhhhh I will tell you what I do..........I tip my jug and pour in 1/3 of the jug and call it good. My jugs are 2.5 gals jugs of 11% chlorine. I do this right after dinner when the sun is off the pool for the day. I let the pump run for about another 30 mins and call it good. I do test every once in a while. Once you get to know your pool things are much easier and you can work from an average like I do.

Kim

 

[jimim]

I feel like I should mention that my pool is still and has almost always been crystal clear (save for two multi-inch-in-a-short-period rain events). I think it's because I am keeping up with it and just restocking the chlorine thanks to TFP and this forum. Today I dumped in a gallon of 10% chlorine and a little bit of shock that I bought when everybody in town was out of liquid chlorine. My tests after a couple of hours showed 6.5 PPM and 0.0 PPM CC. Perhaps it is normal to burn 3.5 PPM per day regardless of sunny or cloudy? I am concerned what will happen in the winter when I am not checking every two days and dumping in chlorine.

Based on this, it's costing me about $2.50/day in chlorine. That seems a lot higher than I was expecting.

i burn 2 daily even in a cloudy day. I burn 3.5 easy on sunny days before my salt was going. I always wonder why I burn off more also. Not just you. My cya is 60-70.

 

[Captchaos]

Thanks Kim. I just tested the FC again and I’m about 2.5 PPM, down about 4 PPM in 20 or so hours without that much sunlight. I’m going to bump the chlorine a lot higher this time in case I have constantly algae bloom that is just using up all of the chlorine. I would SLAM it, but it’s going to be impossible to keep the kids out of it today.

- - - Updated - - -

i burn 2 daily even in a cloudy day. I burn 3.5 easy on sunny days before my salt was going. I always wonder why I burn off more also. Not just you. My cya is 60-70.

Thanks Jim, that is very helpful. I guess the more time this goes on and the pool is staying nice and clear, the more I am starting to think it’s just normal for this pool. I am scared to see what I open to in the spring though!

 

[kimkats]

When it gets cool enough the kids do not want to get in I would do a SLAM for about 3 days/nights just to be on the safe side. See if you can wait until the water temps get down to 60 before you close. That should help in the Spring.

Kim

 

[Captchaos]

Will do, thanks Kim!

 

[jimim]

I closed with my water in the low 50’s last year. My builder said we can go as long as we want as long as the ground isn’t freezing up. Just need to have the pump running. Close late. Like late late. Lol. And open early. I opened March first. My neighbors thought I was nuts. But I had clear water. They opened 2 months later to swamps.

 

[Captchaos]

I haven't posted in a bit. The first closing and next year's opening were covered by the builder so I had them close it back in October just before we went out of town. Unfortunately, I was at work so I didn't get to watch them or ask questions but I'm sure next year I can close myself with the help of the forum.

We also replaced the deck with a slightly larger one and replaced the unsightly steps. I have some more finishing touches to do on that and will post pictures of it in the next few weeks.

My life's philosophy often seems to be a quest on how difficult I can make things for myself and in accordance with this, we decided to try going without a safety cover "for a couple of years" to save on cost. Well, it's been about 3 months and I am ready to wave the white flag and write a big check for one. I'm often a glass half full kinda guy and the free tarp cover from the builder has been about what I expected--horrible. It started out well and better than I expected--the water was dropped to the appropriate level, the builder even threw in the $200 cover pump and all was well for a month or so until a windstorm toppled the patio table over and the top glass shattered everywhere, including on top of the tarp cover. I noticed some small holes in it but didn't think much of it. A few weeks ago I started noticing that the pool seemed to be awfully low on water and I decided to unplug the pump thinking that perhaps the pump was also removing water from under the cover that I wanted to keep. That lasted about a week or two and the cover ended up half in the pool. I called the builder who came out and removed it but didn't say anything about the water level. I think there is enough in it that it won't float or pop but now it's a constant battle to keep the cover out of the pool and figure out if I should turn the pump on to remove the top water, or risk adding more to the replacement pool water bill.

As I write this, I am still warming up from removing part of the cover from the pool again and pondering turning the pump on to remove some top water but wondering how much of that was pool water I wanted to keep. We are in for a deep freeze the next few days with lows expected at about 11 degrees so that further complicates things. So far I think "saving" the $3500-4000 on the safety cover has cost me about $400 in replacement pool water. I did look in there and it looks like the pool is about half full and there are a ton of leaves in it. Fortunately, it's still clear but I'm in for some fun in about 3.5 months when I decide to open it.

 

[PoolGate]

I haven't posted in a bit. The first closing and next year's opening were covered by the builder so I had them close it back in October just before we went out of town. Unfortunately, I was at work so I didn't get to watch them or ask questions but I'm sure next year I can close myself with the help of the forum.

We also replaced the deck with a slightly larger one and replaced the unsightly steps. I have some more finishing touches to do on that and will post pictures of it in the next few weeks.

My life's philosophy often seems to be a quest on how difficult I can make things for myself and in accordance with this, we decided to try going without a safety cover "for a couple of years" to save on cost. Well, it's been about 3 months and I am ready to wave the white flag and write a big check for one. I'm often a glass half full kinda guy and the free tarp cover from the builder has been about what I expected--horrible. It started out well and better than I expected--the water was dropped to the appropriate level, the builder even threw in the $200 cover pump and all was well for a month or so until a windstorm toppled the patio table over and the top glass shattered everywhere, including on top of the tarp cover. I noticed some small holes in it but didn't think much of it. A few weeks ago I started noticing that the pool seemed to be awfully low on water and I decided to unplug the pump thinking that perhaps the pump was also removing water from under the cover that I wanted to keep. That lasted about a week or two and the cover ended up half in the pool. I called the builder who came out and removed it but didn't say anything about the water level. I think there is enough in it that it won't float or pop but now it's a constant battle to keep the cover out of the pool and figure out if I should turn the pump on to remove the top water, or risk adding more to the replacement pool water bill.

As I write this, I am still warming up from removing part of the cover from the pool again and pondering turning the pump on to remove some top water but wondering how much of that was pool water I wanted to keep. We are in for a deep freeze the next few days with lows expected at about 11 degrees so that further complicates things. So far I think "saving" the $3500-4000 on the safety cover has cost me about $400 in replacement pool water. I did look in there and it looks like the pool is about half full and there are a ton of leaves in it. Fortunately, it's still clear but I'm in for some fun in about 3.5 months when I decide to open it.

It really depends on what you want the cover to do. If you just want a cover that keeps "some" leaves out you could use the tarp you just need to attach it better. That could be accomplished by using the safety cover deck anchors and the tarps brass holes to tie it down. If you want a true safety cover then the $3500 is the way to go.

 

[kristmas]

Wow, how much water did they take out when they closed it? I also wasn't there when the cover people closed ours and was kind of wanting to watch their process as well. I also don't know how far down they drained the water (I've been meaning to call them and ask) because we've had to pump water out of the pool because it keeps filling up with rain/snow! We got the mesh safety cover...and get ready because ours cost $5,500! Of course I had to get someone at the last minute thanks to stupid PB so I didn't have much time to shop around. Elite pools completely ghosted me on a quote after I gave them all my info and said they would be out to measure in a week. Not sure why but people don't seem to want your business anymore. Ugh.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your troubles with the 'tarp' cover. Believe me, the safety cover is definitely the way to go! Yes, we've had to pump a little water out but the pool is completely clean and leaf free! And I'm not in constant worry about something bad happening during the winter. I hope you are able to make it through the rest of winter without any more incidents with the cover.

 

[Captchaos]

It really depends on what you want the cover to do. If you just want a cover that keeps "some" leaves out you could use the tarp you just need to attach it better. That could be accomplished by using the safety cover deck anchors and the tarps brass holes to tie it down. If you want a true safety cover then the $3500 is the way to go.

I did think about securing it better. The water bags the builder supplied work okay for the most part and probably would've been acceptable if the water level didn't drop so much and pull them. I would like the safety cover for the safety aspect as well. The plan was to get it all eventually but to save costs if we could go without it.

Wow, how much water did they take out when they closed it? I also wasn't there when the cover people closed ours and was kind of wanting to watch their process as well. I also don't know how far down they drained the water (I've been meaning to call them and ask) because we've had to pump water out of the pool because it keeps filling up with rain/snow! We got the mesh safety cover...and get ready because ours cost $5,500! Of course I had to get someone at the last minute thanks to stupid PB so I didn't have much time to shop around. Elite pools completely ghosted me on a quote after I gave them all my info and said they would be out to measure in a week. Not sure why but people don't seem to want your business anymore. Ugh.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your troubles with the 'tarp' cover. Believe me, the safety cover is definitely the way to go! Yes, we've had to pump a little water out but the pool is completely clean and leaf free! And I'm not in constant worry about something bad happening during the winter. I hope you are able to make it through the rest of winter without any more incidents with the cover.

I believe the water was about a foot or so below the skimmers. The tarp cover is black and it was done when I got home so I didn't see much of it.

I was wondering about that with mesh covers--we have had so much rain in the past year I would hate to have to empty it in the cold. I assume they plug the skimmers? The cover quote from the pool builder was $3900 and that was for the solid safety cover. I should get a quote to compare but it seems on par with what I can get it for elsewhere.

 

[Captchaos]

The saga continues with the tarp pool cover and water bags. Some of the water bags burst from freezing and either won't hold or will only half hold water, so this continues to lead to the tarp in the pool. We're down to about a third of a pool's worth of water so it's looking like almost all new water this year, which I guess is good and bad. I peaked in there yesterday and notice that it's pretty dirty and lots of junk got blown under the cover. We're on the schedule to remove the cover on Friday and fill sometime shortly thereafter. We are opening a week or two earlier than I anticipated, but I'm getting pretty tired of looking at a closed pool.

In other news, the fence and deck have been completed. We ended up with a really small deck because we want to spend all of our time down by the pool so it would've been a waste. Some day we may expand it but for now, it's mainly just decent looking stairs. A concrete pad will go at the bottom of the steps to replace the temporary wooden landing in the next couple of weeks.

On to the pictures. As much as I hate posting pictures of my yard still in disarray, I think it's important to see what you're getting yourself into when you build a pool.

 

[kimkats]

You did a great job on the pretty stairs! They look awesome! I would pour a landing AND walkway to the pool one day. That will help keep everything cleaner.

That looks so pretty there! Good job on everything!

Kim

 

[Captchaos]

Thanks Kim. We thought about it, but we are concerned that we won't be able to match the exposed aggregate if we try a sidewalk all the way to the pool. At least as just a pad, it won't be right next to it and it won't matter that it doesn't match 100%. At some point we will also need a sidewalk through the gate and to the driveway too, but that might end up as pavers. This project will never be 100% completed!