Backswimmer Infestation

[Laker]

I'm back. Yep its the bug guy again with an update and asking for more advice.

Here's a rundown of our situation...

Started with BUGS...lots of them. Huge invasions of backswimmers and boatman.
Have been relying on Dawn Dish Soap to continually kill them.
Lots of white/gray powdery substance continually on pool floor.
Found this site and learned a ton. Mostly that bugs are usually controlled by proper chlorine maintenance and borates could also help.
Purchased TF-100 test kit
Attempted to raise CYA to 40ish with Stabilizer (weren't logging chemical additions at that point so not 100% sure exactly how much we added)
Started SLAM on Monday Sept 28.
pH was 7.2ish and TA around 140
CYA tests ranged from low 20s to mid 30s depending on the day.
Decided to go with a SLAM level of 14+ based on estimated CYA of 35.
Slowly increased FC to 17-18 being unsure of our CYA result and wanting to be on the safe side.
Seems like FC has been dropping pretty quickly but have no basis for that assumption. (Does Dawn eat FC?)
Bugs have continued (more boatman now than before but less backswimmers) through the whole process but dead algae has slowly decreased.
Over last 2 days have added Borax for a target of 40 with MA to offset pH rise.
Dozen of boatman again this morning so ran sample to pool store to compare our results with theirs. I know pool store tests are generally not trusted but just wanted to try.

Today's pool store readings using a "Lamotte WaterLink Clear 360 TOUCH" are attached. Again, not sure how reliable the results are, but would guess for the kind of money spent on these devices, they should be somewhat close.

Our testing agrees with this one on FC, CC, and TA
We haven't been testing pH since starting SLAM as we understand it is unreliable with high chlorine levels. But tested today and it matched pool store.
Pool store also showed very high phosphates (2000-3000?). I know phosphates are considered inconsequential but I remember reading it should be addressed over 1000.
CYA is extremely high compared to our (untrained) eyes.

So I guess we're just wondering where to go from here? We're getting very anxious to just close the pool now and forget about it til Spring. Or are we asking for major issues in the spring with these levels?

 

[mguzzy]

Hmm.. if your FC is dropping its being consumed. I don't know if dish soap would react to it.. but lets go with a classic SLAM to start with.. only add CL and suspend the Dish Soap additions. Maybe even do a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test, then if you are still loosing FC its due to bio activity... and keep the SLAM going until you pass the OCLT. My guess is that as you start to killl whatever is in the water, it will become so unpalatable the bugs will not find it particular appealing.

 

[Laker]

Thanks for the response. We have passed the OCLT a few times since starting the classic SLAM almost a week and a half ago. Also very minimal CC readings. Down to zero lately. Only requirement not me is clear water. There continues to be a little dead algae on the floor daily.

Would love to suspend the dish soap but it's the only thing that keeps them under control. And we fear if we let them go undeterred, they'll just keep multiplying.

What are your thoughts on a mustard SLAM using our best guess for cya of 40 which would correlate to a mustard SLAM level of 24? We'd start tonight (Wednesday) and close pool friday morning. We'd be throwing in the towel on correcting our issues yet this year and hoping for a better start to next year being more prepared.

 

[wireform]

So what you're basically saying you haven't YET met a perfect OCLT. You can't call it done till you meet all 3 criteria and clear water is one of them. My opinion is if your closing for the winter then call it quits now. Deal with it next spring.

 

[cowboycasey]

What is your water temp down to? Mine is only at 72, I do not close till the water hits 50 degrees usually in Nov sometime... Yours might be 68 now?? You want to close when it is below 60 degrees...

my addition of dawn has not done anything with the chlorine, really if you are no longer swimming I would add half a gallon of dawn at one time and really cut the surface tension of your water, it will be a nice clean pool..

This is really all up to you, we are here to help you and your pool so we will help with anything you want.. If you want to keep going or close we will help you out

 

[Brushman]

Hey Laker, big props to you for all the hard work. Based on everything, including your most recent posts, if I was in your shoes, I would immediately work to bring ph and total alkalinity back in range. Based on all the data you've shared, you are much too high on both. That's a big deal because being at the proper ph has a giant impact on the effectiveness of chlorine. Once your ph is back in range, the disinfecting power of your chlorine will be 3 to 4 times higher than what it is when your ph is at or around 8.3. That should help you win this SLAM / bug fight much more quickly. Sodium bisulfate is probably the best and safest way to do that with your particular pool. It will lower both your elevated ph and ta simultaneously. So that's what I'd be doing right now if I was in your shoes. Worth mentioning that it's also best for your liner and equipment for the ph to be in range, and they also benefit when you can shorten the period of time at elevated chlorine levels as needed to SLAM. Keep doing all the testing you are doing at home, but FWIW I think it was also a good idea for you to cross-check using the automated testing at your local store and their Clear 360 Touch meter -- it's especially useful given how new you are to all this and all the moving parts you have on the current project. Especially in your first few months of pool ownership, that can be helpful. Keep up the good work and good luck.

 

[Laker]

Hey Laker, big props to you for all the hard work. Based on everything, including your most recent posts, if I was in your shoes, I would immediately work to bring ph and total alkalinity back in range. Based on all the data you've shared, you are much too high on both. That's a big deal because being at the proper ph has a giant impact on the effectiveness of chlorine. Once your ph is back in range, the disinfecting power of your chlorine will be 3 to 4 times higher than what it is when your ph is at or around 8.3. That should help you win this SLAM / bug fight much more quickly. Sodium bisulfate is probably the best and safest way to do that with your particular pool. It will lower both your elevated ph and ta simultaneously. So that's what I'd be doing right now if I was in your shoes. Worth mentioning that it's also best for your liner and equipment for the ph to be in range, and they also benefit when you can shorten the period of time at elevated chlorine levels as needed to SLAM. Keep doing all the testing you are doing at home, but FWIW I think it was also a good idea for you to cross-check using the automated testing at your local store and their Clear 360 Touch meter -- it's especially useful given how new you are to all this and all the moving parts you have on the current project. Especially in your first few months of pool ownership, that can be helpful. Keep up the good work and good luck.

Thanks for the feedback.

We addressed the pH right away when we realized how high it was. We've brought it back down to 7.2 with MA. Alkalinity though, has been a constant battle for us. We started very high (250+) when pool was originally filled. We're now down to 150 but obviously a long ways to go. Not sure why the alkalinity has been so stubborn.

 

[cowboycasey]

hey there, @Brushman @Laker

Once you start the SLAM do not test nor change PH.. once the FC is over 10 PH is unreliable as Laker said in the previous post.. This is why we tell you not to go to the pool store because as you see they have no clue and tested the PH and told you it was high... they should have told you it is over 10 fc so not reliable but they did not...

When you are done with the SLAM and FC is below 10 then test PH and drop with muriatic acid, do not use Sodium bisulfate as it is not as good and way more expensive..

brushman, You said you passed the SLAM, is your water completely clear, like you can see a quarter on the bottom of the pool clearly, clear like this.. everyone has weights in there pool, right

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