It’s the outside of the fitting where it is sealed against the pool wall.
An Inexplicable Loss of Water after EXTENSIVE pressure testing/liner scanning/everything!!! Please HELP!
- Thread starter JohnOwenRiley
- Start date
- May 27, 2021
- 1,290
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Not necessarily. I’ve seen cracks in the floors of plaster pools not leak over the winter due to silt/dirt plugging them. Vacuum the pool in the spring and it starts leaking again.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,012
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I've watched countless videos on how to find leaks in vinyl liner pools. I've tried all the dye tests. No leaks. When we winterize the pool is spotless.
- May 27, 2021
- 1,290
- Pool Size
- 17000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just spitballing here - may be totally unrelated. What is the cut off/open pipe in image 97 and 98 near the valves?
That was a pvc conduit line from the old Intermatic Mechanical Pool Timer switch to the air pressure button on the spa. It had a plastic air tube running through it that would activate a separate pump to start the spa jets. The plastic air tube deteriorated and would no longer work. I swapped out the old 2 hayward pool pumps for a single VS Pump and changed the plumbing to allow all returns and spa to work off of one pump. To my knowledge, that pvc connects to the spa switch but its all underground. Its no longer in use.
- Dec 13, 2020
- 906
- Pool Size
- 19600
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Jandy Aquapure 1400
Just some playing with back-of-the-envelope math, my hobby. Feel free to ignore.
If your pool is anything like mine, an inch of water is in the range of 400 gallons. So we are looking at ~100 gallons per day or about a gallon every 14 minutes. Let's see what we can see about how easy/hard that is to see.
There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon, so every minute is 16 cubic inches or 1/4 cubic inch per second. Videos I've seen show dye moving lazily toward a crack, max 1/4 inch per second. 1/4 cubic inch per second moves 1/4 inch per second through an opening of 1 square inch. Another way to look at this is if the flow is through a small hole, a hemispherical bubble around the hole with area 1 square inch has radius 0.4 inches.
tl;dr This says that for a leak of the size you're seeing, to get the dye to move toward the flow at a speed you can observe, it needs to be released within about half an inch of a leak that's a simple hole.
Unfortunately, if the leak is a linear slit/crack, the distance gets smaller. I won't bore you with the calculation. For a 1 inch crack, it's about 1/4 inch. For 2 inches, it's less than 3/16 inch.
Remember this is a back-of-the-envelope exercise, so very approximate. Ymmv.
Upshot is this seems to explain why dye is hit-or-miss.
I've never dealt with a leak (knock very loudly on wood), but the fact yours stopped when the pool was winterized seems the biggest clue. So I did want to pass on that the pump being off for a few days for fiddling is manageable. We were 1 day into a 9 day vacation when our pump/SWG breaker tripped, which - sadly - I could see in Italy via automation. We had a floater full of tabs in the pool as a backup. Best idea ever. When we got back, FC was in the safe range and the water was fine. Others here have reported getting through pump fails by dosing with LQ and stirring with a net every day.
If your pool is anything like mine, an inch of water is in the range of 400 gallons. So we are looking at ~100 gallons per day or about a gallon every 14 minutes. Let's see what we can see about how easy/hard that is to see.
There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon, so every minute is 16 cubic inches or 1/4 cubic inch per second. Videos I've seen show dye moving lazily toward a crack, max 1/4 inch per second. 1/4 cubic inch per second moves 1/4 inch per second through an opening of 1 square inch. Another way to look at this is if the flow is through a small hole, a hemispherical bubble around the hole with area 1 square inch has radius 0.4 inches.
tl;dr This says that for a leak of the size you're seeing, to get the dye to move toward the flow at a speed you can observe, it needs to be released within about half an inch of a leak that's a simple hole.
Unfortunately, if the leak is a linear slit/crack, the distance gets smaller. I won't bore you with the calculation. For a 1 inch crack, it's about 1/4 inch. For 2 inches, it's less than 3/16 inch.
Remember this is a back-of-the-envelope exercise, so very approximate. Ymmv.
Upshot is this seems to explain why dye is hit-or-miss.
I've never dealt with a leak (knock very loudly on wood), but the fact yours stopped when the pool was winterized seems the biggest clue. So I did want to pass on that the pump being off for a few days for fiddling is manageable. We were 1 day into a 9 day vacation when our pump/SWG breaker tripped, which - sadly - I could see in Italy via automation. We had a floater full of tabs in the pool as a backup. Best idea ever. When we got back, FC was in the safe range and the water was fine. Others here have reported getting through pump fails by dosing with LQ and stirring with a net every day.
Last edited:
Ok, summer is nearly coming to a close. I've been maintaining our water line by adding about 4-5 hours of hose water every 2-3 days, but this leak is still very active. So i've taken your suggestion and tried it out. Heres the results...
1. Left all returns/skimmers open. SHUT OFF the pump. (See First Image)
- 1st Tape Line: Aug 22, 6 pm, the water was at the bottom of that tape
- 2nd Tape Line: Aug 23, 6 pm, the water was at the bottom of that tape line (about 1.5 inches of loss in 24 hours)
2. At this point I plugged all returns/skimmers. Pump remains OFF.
- Aug 24, 12 pm, the water has dropped another 1 inch below the 2nd Tape Line (See Second Image)
- 3rd Tape Line: Aug 26th, 6 pm, the water has dropped at least 2 inches further (See Third Image).
At this point, the water line is below the Skimmer boxes. Its back up in the 90's again so I need to get the pump running before this thing explodes with Algae. The skimmers remain plugged (and the skimmer valve closed so its not pulling air). I reopened all the returns so the pool is running off of just the main drain intake and all returns are once again open to allow some circulation to rebalance the water.
I will run it for a few days to get it the chemicals balanced, but I'm not sure whats left to test. Pump on is losing water. Pump off is losing water (whether returns/skimmers are plugged or unplugged). This is a new problem now, because as I mentioned in my previous posts. When i plugged everything last fall, the water loss stopped.
I am considering bringing out another leak detection service to scan the pool with hydrophone so see if we can locate this thing. But i'm very close to renting a bulldozer and filling this thing in with dirt
Incredibly frustrating.I'll add that through these 5 days of testing with the pump off, there is no water or wetspots anywhere around the yard, equipment, nothing. Where the heck does nearly 5-6 inches (in a 26k gallon pool) go without being visible!
Attachments
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,012
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Do you have any noticeable wrinkles or loose places in the liner? Any divots or trenches? Do you have accessible well points around this pool? If so check to see if they’re wet.
While your pump is off,
Please be sure to add liquid chlorine every day and brush the pool to maintain target range FC/CYA Levels
It can be added very slowly away from the pool wall while brushing at the same time. Run your bot to collect debris. It will also circulate the water.
While your pump is off,
Please be sure to add liquid chlorine every day and brush the pool to maintain target range FC/CYA Levels
It can be added very slowly away from the pool wall while brushing at the same time. Run your bot to collect debris. It will also circulate the water.