Am I at risk of an algae problem from topsoil runoff - muddy pool

[Bperry]

@Newdude ... that makes sense. Dropping down from the 3400 I've been running last 24 hours. I'm currently running at my normal high-speed mode... 2800 (unless suggestion to go down further... 2800 sits around 12 psi start and watching dial to hit 16 before clean).

Will also be running for about 3 hours/off 3 hours to allow better settling. It's getting better so fingers crossed I'll still be good for hosting event on Saturday.

May the pool gods be generous...

For reference, I normally run mine around 1500rpm, occasionally faster if I run the waterfall. Theres generally no need to run it very fast, just enough to skim well, make chlorine, use the heater, etc.

 

[datadr93]

Update nearing end of Day 2

Still can't see bottom and water has less of brown coloring (almost looks like a dull green now... but then I thought the dress looked white/gold... LOL). Able to fully see tanning ledge and first few steps. I can also see the return jets. Tanning ledge does not feel slimy so assume not growing any algae. No yellow marks so hoping no mustard algae. This is an assumption. Let pump remain off most of day... very little soot settled anywhere in pool.

FC sits at 17. Tested alkalinity (added 5 drops of R-007 to counter the chlorine instead of the normal 2)... 80 result (turned red... not blue or yellow). Granted, I'm understanding this may not be 100% accurate but gives me idea if chemistry completely out of whack... welcome to correct me if assumption is wrong. Tried same with pH (added 5 drops of R-007) and resulted with 7.6.

Am I back to 'slow and steady wins the race' at this point?

 

[Newdude]

Tested alkalinity (added 5 drops of R-007 to counter the chlorine instead of the normal 2)... 80 result (turned red... not blue or yellow).

Was the TA an 80 before ? It probably didn't change much.

The same with the Ph. I've been at this since 2012 and my kit didn't have the acid demand portion so I've never done one. If I dose Ph from 8.2 and it doesn't go down, I dose from 8.2 again (and again if needed). We recommend only lowering 0.4 at a time so even if I had a good idea the Ph was way high to start, I'd do it in batches either way.

But potato pahtahto if you like the acid demand portion of the Ph test.

Am I back to 'slow and steady wins the race' at this point?

IMO, yes. No two of these are the same, and heck, it isn't even the same upon itself as it plays out . You need shear volume at first, then probably slower mixing to get the remaining stuff, peppered with settling breaks.

I'd let it be off for longer periods to allow more to settle. Say, overnight for a 12 on / 12 off.

 

[PoolStored]

Am I back to 'slow and steady wins the race' at this point?

DISCLAIMER: We do not recommend the use of clarifiers for everyday pool care.

With a large amount of construction debris/dirt, AND you have passed a couple OCLTs, it might be a good solution for you.

Do another OCLT again tonight.

If you pass again, I would recommend you use a clarifier. HOWEVER, you MUST use a CHITOSAN clarifier like SeaKlear. NO OTHER CLARIFIERS.

Carefully follow the directions. Do not add more than recommended dose. Follow the directions to a T. NOT for continuous use.

Chitosan Clarifier - SeaKlear

seaklear.com

 

[datadr93]

I have to wait until tomorrow for the OCLT. Ran out of reagent and it's arriving then.

SeaKlear to arrive on Friday. Not taking chance local store doesn't have in stock and want to push "their" product.

But, when I ran FC today with what I had left, I had no loss of FC since Monday morning. We had 93 degree day and pool sits in full sun all day long. Yes, the SWG has been running so that's a factor.

 

[datadr93]

@Newdude ... end of day 2 and want to make sure your process of off/on 12 hours would be effective.

Was the TA an 80 before ? It probably didn't change much.

Started at 90 two days ago. So taking the new result lightly since the FC was 15.5 this morning from prior day at 17.5.

Pool still opaque. Ran out of FAS reagent (will arrive tomorrow and SeaKlear on Friday if needed... so OCTL Thursday night) so used the old-fashioned DPD reagent I have more than ample supply. Results 10-20... real helpful right... LOL.

But, I did take a light stroll on tanning ledge. Not slick or slippery... has the normal grit we've been accustomed. There is zero soot/dirt along edges nor on any of the steps. Calm areas of pool also free of any debris. Filter has been sitting at same baseline 8 hours later after last cleaning. Wouldn't there be signs of some settling if there were still particles suspended in the water? If anything, any contaminants would be more in a solution than a suspension. I also don't see any signs of oxidized metals on surface of water or on sides which I'd expect if there was iron or phos after adding the additional chlorine bringing them out of solution.

I'd let it be off for longer periods to allow more to settle. Say, overnight for a 12 on / 12 off.

Do you still feel there will be benefit turning off pump? Shouldn't I just let filter do it's job adding SeaKlear if pass OCTL going into Friday morning if no improvement in cloudiness?

I'm a 2 month rookie and the only thing I have going in my direction is a minor in Chemistry (with C's in Organic 1&2)... which means absolutely nothing... LOL. I'm more concerned (as mentioned in other post), my filter is actually FUBAR and simply not filtering properly. So please don't think I'm casting your opinion.

Edit: going to turn off pump overnight. I'll then know for certain in morning if still have anything suspended. Plus, if my filter is FUBAR it's not doing any good anyways.

 

[Newdude]

my filter is actually FUBAR and simply not filtering properly

These mud pools are miserable for everyone. Some go on for weeks. While a filter problem is always a possibility (mine came defective from Pentair) its probably more of a patience issue.

Which we don't have with a party on Sat. The universe is a *mean lady*, huh ?

Wouldn't there be signs of some settling if there were still particles suspended in the water?

maybe, if 3 hours was enough time, maybe not if not.

My 12 hour suggestion was more of an experiment and not a set rule. Unfortunately we are very short on time so we don't have time to be wasting either way. I wish I had a better way than to mess around and find out.

 

[datadr93]

When concrete form was done and all that junk went into pool, it was fairly clear next morning (concrete and sand much more dense than fine topsoil so to be expected). Granted, ton of sludge that took 3+ hours of methodical vacuuming and rebalancing the jacked up alkalinity. But about 24 hours later was back to clear pool. And yes, the filtered concrete may have ruined my filter.

Yeah. This mud is BS. And it was only one area of runoff that I've since fixed with a gravel barrier (grade is only area that slopes towards pool).

Will be certain Friday morning if also fighting any algae or other oxidized contaminate. Luckily you don't smell chlorine... So fingers crossed.

 

[PoolStored]

Luckily you don't smell chlorine

The chlorine smell comes from combined chloramines.

CC - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

Will be certain Friday morning if also fighting any algae or other oxidized contaminate

Soil may contain a certain bacteria which will consume your CYA and leave you with ammonia. (You'd know by now. And PHEW). But for the most part, dirt is just dirt and free of organics.

 

[datadr93]

The chlorine smell comes from combined chloramines.

CC - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Correct. That's why I was pointing out. My CC has been either 0 or 0.5. Ran 25mL test and it was 0 and 0.2 after OCLT.

I've always known if you smell chlorine, it's a poorly maintained pool (eg...public pool). Folks believe if you smell chlorine they used to much. On contrary, they didn't use enough.

 

[Newdude]

I've always known if you smell chlorine, it's a dirty pool

But you have a dirty pool

Too soon ? I'll show myself out.

 

[datadr93]

Soil may contain a certain bacteria which will consume your CYA and leave you with ammonia.

Pseudomonas and sometimes EColi... But really any gram negative bacteria. That's why a lot of hospitals don't advocate for chlorine wipes. Produces too much nitrate waste (ammonia) in contaminated areas and equipment.

And most DOH don't advocate CYA with indoor pools and outright ban in therapy spas because of nitrate by-products from the oxidation of skin surface bacteria.

Now you're hitting my major... Lol

 

[datadr93]

But you have a dirty pool

Too soon ? I'll show myself out.

Haha... Changed wording to "poorly maintained"

And yes ... Too soon.

 

[PoolStored]

And most DOH don't advocate CYA with indoor pools and outright ban in therapy spas because of nitrate by-products from the oxidation of skin surface bacteria.

Because they don't understand it.

Pool Water Chemistry

This thread presents my findings so far on pool water chemistry including the following: More Accurate Calcite Saturation Index (CSI) to replace Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) Calculation of ppm HOCl (disinfecting chlorine) at various levels of Total Free Chlorine (FC) and Cyanuric Acid (CYA)...

www.troublefreepool.com

Now you're hitting my major... Lol

Maybe...see above.

 

[PoolStored]

Richard Falk, AKA Chem Geek, who wrote the post above, has been working for years to get the industry and government oversight of pools to understand and change regulations.

The pool industry make Billions on pool products. They are not going to change.

Richard Falk’s presentation on Risk of illness in stabilized chlorine pools - PWTAG - The Pool Water Treatment Advisory Group

www.pwtag.org

Cyanuric Acid Debate - PoolPro

There was a standing-room-only panel discussion at the International Pool | Spa | Patio Expo this past November on cyanuric acid in pool water care. Panelists

poolpromag.com

Assessing the Impact of Cyanuric Acid on Bather’s Risk of Gastrointestinal Illness at Swimming Pools

Current regulatory codes for swimming pool disinfection separately regulate free chlorine (FC) and cyanuric acid (CYA). It is well-known that CYA affects disinfection rates by reversibly binding to FC in aqueous solutions. However, limits for these regulated parameters have neither...

www.mdpi.com

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/3831534/Chlorine-CYA.pdf

 

[datadr93]

Very exhaustive study. I'll review tomorrow during downtime. Want to absorb the material.

In the interim, staff has to abide by the regs presented. Regarding infectious diseases, pediatric patients are more susceptible to nitrite related issues (less acidic saliva... And kids get water in their mouths), I'd have to review the study deeper if that population is taken into consideration.

Do I have CYA in my pool (and soon hot tub)? Absolutely. Does my grandchild swim in the water and keep his mouth open? Absolutely. Would I allow him in pool/tub if he had an EColi infection... heck no.

Would love to continue this conversation in the Deep End... Not sure if it will help with my mud water.

 

[datadr93]

@Newdude ... Unfortunately the experiment did not work. Pump off 10 hours and zero settlement. No different this morning than when shut off pump last night. Visibility remained the same.

Pump running. OCLT tonite. And then hope filter does it's job. Will also show if filter is trashed from former concrete issue. New filter and SeaKlear arrives tomorrow so definitely at the "wait and see" stage.

Oh... And the DPD still 10-20. So I have that going for me.

 

[setsailsoon]

dat,

Reading through this thread seems to me if your equipment is working properly you would have much better performance than you are seeing. I think something may be wrong inside your filter. Muddy water from lawn dirt or sand should have particle sizes that are easily removed by cartridge (or any other type of pool filter). If you are going almost immediately to 25% above clean filter pressure that usually indicates your filter is taking out a large amount of debris very quickly. Another way this could happen is you have plugged filter material and most of the water is bypassing through a leaky cartridge seal or a tear in the material. Have you or previous owner**** EDIT - new pool**** ever used floc/clarifier or phosphate remover in the past? There are a couple things I'd try:

• Take muddy water and drip it through a coffee filter. Does it clean and clarify substantially? If so, the material is definitely the size particles that should be easily removed and there is likely bypass or torn filter media
• If this doesn't remove anything you may have a soluble contaminant or an emulsion. These are rare for a pool and not removable by mechanical means alone.

How is your pool flow lined up? Are you taking suction at the drain or skimmer or both? Is there any possibility that a large amount of water is recycling back to the suction of the pump without passing through the filter? A photo might help.

Chris

 

[datadr93]

@setsailsoon ... Great idea with coffee filter. And the water was crystal clear on pour-thru.

As to filter. Yes, I believe it may be damaged when concrete form was done and accumulated concrete. But, so far, I'm running pump at high speed and I'm still at basically same baseline I was at yesterday.

Pump taking suction from skimmer and drain. I'm assuming works properly since was able to vacuum yesterday with drain turned off. Picture of setup as requested. Two lines from the SWG turned off are for deck jets