Air in Hayward TriStar VS pump basket at low speed

[djw]

I am curious whether air in the pump strainer basket that is half full of air is normal when the pump is running at low speed (say 1200 rpm)?

Doesn't seem to happen when the same pump is at a relatively high speed (say 2800+).

Is this definitely a suction-side leak in some form? I have replaced o-rings in the suction side valves a year or so ago and wondering if this is an indication of time to do it again.

 

[mknauss]

A small quarter size bubble is to be expected, but half full? Seems a bit extreme. Let's see what others have to say.

 

[Jimrahbe]

djw,

Is it really half full of air? That would below where the water enters the pump... Can you see the water entering you pump?

Does it get bigger and bigger as the day goes on, or does it stay about the same size all day?

When was the last time you backwashed your filter?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[1poolman1]

I am curious whether air in the pump strainer basket that is half full of air is normal when the pump is running at low speed (say 1200 rpm)?

Doesn't seem to happen when the same pump is at a relatively high speed (say 2800+).

Is this definitely a suction-side leak in some form? I have replaced o-rings in the suction side valves a year or so ago and wondering if this is an indication of time to do it again.

Tri Star pumps all seem to do that more than other brands. It is not usually an air leak. My 13+ year-old one has done it from day one. On low speed the basket isn't full, but there is never air in the filter that needs to be released, so no suction leak. Its not an issue, just something we don't always expect. Even the single-speed Tri Stars seemed to not always completely fill the pot when new, then sometimes they would start. Never figured out why.

 

[djw]

If I run the main pump it at higher speed it essentially disappears within 10 secs or goes to a quarter sized bubble. Similar pump on the waterfall (with no valve on suction) doesn't seem to accumulate air.

Running the main pump back down around 1200 rpm, I sometimes find it happily pumping along half full of air.

Both pumps are the larger Hayward TriStar/EcoStar VSPs of very similar vintage.

I have been unsuccessful using a water hose trick all around the pump plugs, lid, and intake valves to see any changes in the air present. Last week I lubed up the strainer lid o-ring but it did not make a difference.

I will post a pic. It's curious.

 

[1poolman1]

If I run the main pump it at higher speed it essentially disappears within 10 secs or goes to a quarter sized bubble. Similar pump on the waterfall (with no valve on suction) doesn't seem to accumulate air.

Running the main pump back down around 1200, I sometimes find it happily pumping along half full of air.

Both pumps are the larger Hayward EcoStar VSPs of very similar vintage.

Installed an IntelliPro yesterday (really hard to get). Even on low speed the pot stays full. Haywards don't seem to do that. Personally, and its just a guess, I believe it has do do with how low the inlet to pump pot is compared to other brands. Jacuzzi (when they were actually Jacuzzi) used to advertise their pumps as "having so little turbulence that not all the air will be removed from the basket." They ended up putting a small vinyl tube on the basket so the impeller could remove all the air because people complained so much about seeing air in the pot. As long as there isn't a suction leak, its not an issue and doesn't affect the pump's performance in practical use.

 

[Jimrahbe]

djw,

I'll bet your waterfall pump does not have a filter..

Does your sand filter have a recirculate or bypass mode? If so, just for grins, use it as a test, and see if things look better.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[djw]

It can seem to settle even lower than this once it has been running at low speed for several hours.

 

[1poolman1]

View attachment 483012
It can seem to settle even lower than this once it has been running at low speed for several hours.

Basket looks to be quite full. That will affect removal of air as water can't flow.

 

[djw]

Thanks, but it actually isn't full of debris. Might be “a” leaf floating around.

A pic from today. Probably half full of water now.

 

[djw]

Swapped baskets and lids with the other pump. @Jimrahbe Recirc makes no difference in this phenomenon. Running >2500 will fill the pot. Strainer basket is clean.

At around 1700 rpm the water level settles at the top of the strainer basket. Lower rpm will drop a little more.

Weird phenomenon I don't really understand - a Hayward VSP thing or a suction leak I can't find??

off:

running:

 

[mas985]

Have you lubed the pump lid and drain plug gaskets?

 

[djw]

Have you lubed the pump lid and drain plug gaskets?

Yes.

This procedure should be able to locate a suction side leak.

And I have so far not been able to make a difference.

 

[mas985]

Can you post a picture of your equipment pad?

What is before the pump?

O-rings in valves and unions is another source.

The pour over method sometimes works sometimes not. It really only works on high speed.

 

[djw]

Taken last year, but still accurate. The o-rings in all the valves were replaced a couple years ago. The Tristar is about 3 years old. The equipment is fairly new, the pool is 20 yo.

 

[mas985]

I would first focus on that union right before the pump inlet. Have you taken that apart, inspected the o-ring for cracks and lubed it?

After that, you can focus on the valve o-rings and on that note, try this. Put the controller into spa mode, run the pump on high speed until all the air is gone from the pump basket, then drop to low speed. See how quickly the water level drops. If it does not drop at all, it is likely a problem with the other two valves. It it drops the same, then it is likely the valve with actuator or the union.

 

[djw]

try this. Put the controller into spa mode, run the pump on high speed until all the air is gone from the pump basket, then drop to low speed. See how quickly the water level drops. If it does not drop at all, it is likely a problem with the other two valves.

I think this is the winner. Spa mode does not appear to drop the level.

Time to break out the o-ring kit and lube again and go ahead and re-do all the valves and union.