16' x 30' Flat Kidney Owner Build

[dleonard1122]

Excavation for the paver pool deck starts today. They think it'll only take a day or two, and then they'll be putting down and compacting the modified 2A base material. Once that's done I think I need to get my bonding finished because the next step is the coping and I'll no longer have access to the steel walls to attach bonding wire. So, planning out my next steps:

- paver deck excavation
- put down compacted paver base
- install with cement step and ladder anchor cups
- finish running bond wire around pool, bonding to anchors and steel wall
- install paver coping
- install paver pool deck
- finish grade and topsoil around pool site

Still a lot of work to do, but it's nice to be able to at least see the finish line.

On the pool chemistry front, I did another full test recently. I'm not sure if I read it differently this time, or if it actually increased but my pH is up to 8.2 now. Maybe the high TA contributed to that rising, but either way I'm going to go pick up some MA and try to drop it down to 7.2

 

[KfenTx]

On the pool chemistry front, I did another full test recently. I'm not sure if I read it differently this time, or if it actually increased but my pH is up to 8.2 now. Maybe the high TA contributed to that rising, but either way I'm going to go pick up some MA and try to drop it down to 7.2

I was told that salt will automatically make pH want to sit near 8. I also have horribly hard water (tap TA is 230) so I did a few rounds of MA with a target pH of 7-7.2 to get that down to about 90. Now I just let pH do whatever unless it gets above about 8.2. I'm no expert though ahaha

 

[Newdude]

I was told that salt will automatically make pH want to sit near 8.

To produce enough FC, you need to run the pump 12-24 hours a day to run the SWG for most folks. That's alot of aeration which causes PH rise, which always gets blamed on the salt or SWG. It's the pump. It's because of the SWG, because liquid chlorone users might only run the pump a couple hours, but it's still the pumps fault.

Now I just let pH do whatever unless it gets above about 8.2. I'm no expert though ahaha

You are getting there. Adjust at 8.2, and only down to 7.8 or 7.6.

*once the TA is in line if you wish to lower it first. For lowering TA, you want to hit the PH hard and often, lowering to 7 and hitting again at 7.4.

If you just manage the PH in the high 7s, TA will come down on its own, but will take some time. No harm is done the longer way.

 

[dleonard1122]

I've had some water drop lately. Over the course of a week or so it went from 1 screw hole on the skimmer down to the next one, so that's like a couple inches I think?

Im trying to reason with myself that even though it got a little colder, the humidity has completely dropped out so maybe the dry air is sucking it up. I'm in the process of doing the bucket test to check, but it's driving me crazy at the thought of having a leak.

Edit: just measured and over 9 days it's dropped a little less than 2"

 

[Newdude]

Everybody in the northeast is losing more water right now. No rain plus cooler nights makes for higher than usual loss.

It's likely fine.

Decoy posted a pic of his steaming yesterday morning and I said there that I was happy to have had mine going long enough that it held water before the evaporation got heavy. If I had started now like some of you guys, I'd be in a concerned state too, even knowing better.

 

[Lanzz]

DLeonard, as Newdude said, the second the nigh temp went into the 60's in the Southeast, my pool started losing 1/4" a day (night, really). For most of the summer, when we have hot humid nights, almost nothing comes out of the pool - those first cool nights seem like they vacuum the water out...

 

[dleonard1122]

After a couple days of the bucket test, and the assurances of folks of other pool owners on here and locally, I'm pretty comfortable with the realization that the water loss is in fact evaporation. It's still unnerving to me being a first time pool owner, but I will hopefully get used to it and over a couple years develop a mental schedule when I should expect to see high periods of water loss.

Yesterday was fun. We put our daughter down for a nap, finished up running a drainage line underneath of pavers, and then after we got all hot and sweaty we just jumped into the pool! It's still really cold, but you get used to it.

I need to get a vacuum though. Part of me says just pony up and get the Dolphin S200 (my local pool store has it for $1k). The other part of me says to get the skimmer plate adapter, hose, and vacuum head for the pole and just manually vacuum this year and see how it goes. Do people usually have both, or can you get by with just a brush and a robot?

 

[Lanzz]

I am in my second year of pool ownership - so, pretty new as well. I vacuumed for about a week - then, forget it... The robot really is a game-changer. I have the Dolphin E30 from marinapoolspaandpatio.com (They provide a discount for TFP members... and you get a real warranty because it is not considered an online sale... you have to call them) There's more info on this site, but even though it feels like you've been spending money like water over the past few months, this is something you will want (if not for the rest of this season, then at least for next season...)

 

[Newdude]

Get the manual setup with the triangle bristle head. It works double duty for vinyl because it brushes as it vacs.

The manual setup will darn near last forever and the robot won't. So even with the robot, the old fashioned way comes in handy at times like for spot vacs.

 

[dleonard1122]

Dumb question, but when using the PoolMath app for pH it says I should
'add 18 oz
or 2 cups, 2 oz
by volume to reach your target'

Am I correct in assuming that both of those measurements are volume measurements, and that it's specifying 18 fl oz of MA? Or is the top line a weight measurement and the 2nd line volume? I'm probably overthinking this but just want to be sure.

 

[Newdude]

Fluid gets measured by volume ounces with a measuring cup. (A liquid cup is 8oz / 2 cups is 16 oz / 18 oz is 2 cups 2 oz)

Solids get measured by weight ounces with a scale. Just straight 18 oz on the scale. Unless you're baking. Then flour might get measured in a measuring cup.

However. For anything we do, eyeballing is close enough once it's diluted in your 15k gallons. So if the bag of XYZ is 20 lbs and you need 10, dump half of it in the best you can tell and call it a day. For liquids do a rough mental Calc to the nearest 1/8 of the bottle.

 

[dleonard1122]

Unless you're baking. Then flour might get measured in a measuring cup.

Ironically, since I started baking I've gotten in the habit of doing everything by weight.

 

[dleonard1122]

Been a while since my last photo update. The paver pool deck area is finished excavating, and I had the same crew put down 6" of modified gravel for the paver base. They also did some more finish grading of the area around the pavers.

I've got a couple of things I need to tie up before I can start the pavers. I need to get my stairs and step handrail anchor cups formed and cemented in place so that I can attach and run my bonding wire. Once that's done, I'll start with the coping and then move onto finishing the rest of the pavers.

 

[Newdude]

Your yard just tweaked my PTSD. For the first time since Good Friday, I am looking at exotic black topsoil and straw, not the brown sandy dirt and clay that they pulled from the ground.

Seeing yours just brought me back.

It's too soon.

 

[dleonard1122]

Does anyone know/recommend how much concrete/what dimensions needs to be formed up to mount the ladder and hand rail anchors?

3' x 3' x 6" is 600# of concrete. I'm honestly not sure if that's overkill or not enough.

 

[dleonard1122]

I found @jimmythegreek advice here: Replacing inground ladder anchors

It looks like 24 x 24 x 8 is what he said. I'm assuming that's all in inches?

 

[koffey]

Great thread. Totally forgot about this awesome build.

 

[dleonard1122]

It's amazing how much smarter you are towards the end of the installation process than you are at the beginning when you order everything and first design your pool. I took my ladder out of the box yesterday and put it together. I had completely forgotten that I ordered a white Saftron ladder. It was nice, wife said she liked the white color. Then I got to remembering that one of the additional reasons I needed the ladder anchors to be bonded was because I am using the ladder as my water bond. My non-conducting Saftron ladder...

So.. off to the local pool store I go today to see if I can find a stainless steel version, and maybe just maybe convince them to just trade me ladders since the Saftron ones are expensive.

 

[dleonard1122]

Welp, failed our first inspection of the project today. Here's what's wrong:

- I used self-tapping sheet metal screws to attach the bonding lugs to the steel wall panels. That's a no-no, he wants stainless machine screws. I guess I am going to need to try and figure out how to get a lock washer and nut behind the top lip of the steel wall panels because I don't think the 14 ga walls are thick enough to tap. Probably should have done this before I poured the concrete collar for the coping, because there really isn't a lot of vertical steel exposed now, and barely any space to get in behind it except for the sections where relief cuts are cut on the corner. Another thought is to try and push a long enough screw threw a hole in the steel from the inside (probably with long needle nose pliers), so that the threads are now exposed on the outside. Then I could put the lug over the threads and tighten down the washer and nut, while holding onto the exposed threads with channel locks to keep the whole thing from spinning. Ugh, I'll figure something out but this part has me the most concerned because it needs to happen before I can continue on with the coping.

- The convenience outlet cannot be installed inside of the shed. I was hoping to avoid having to install a new outdoor-rated outlet that faced outside the shed, but that's what I'll have to do. Anyone have recommendations on enclosures they like?

- He wants to come back and see the stainless steel ladder installed for the water bond. He also mentioned that they sell plugs that go into the drains of the pump to complete the water bond. I might look around for that because it would be nice to always have the water bonded and not just when the later is installed.

Overall, it sounded like he wasn't surprised that it wasn't a one-and-done inspection and that for being a DIY project he was impressed I got as much right as I did (mainly the liquid-tight conduit for the pump and SWG circuit.) While it's frustrating to have to take a step backwards before moving forward, I do appreciate his attention to detail on this. Some of the stuff feels ticky-tacky to me, but I'm not an electrician and I don't know any better so I'm fine with just following the rules. The last thing I'd want is to hurt someone because of my own ignorance.

 

[dleonard1122]

*Mic drop*

This photo shows how little space I have left on the walls to somehow secure the bonding lugs. The top flat faces cant really be used because it would interfere with the pavers, so I just have that tiny bit of lip that comes down before it goes into concrete that I'm working with. Definitely a rookie mistake, should have done this before the concrete was poured. Woops.