16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

[setsailsoon]

Looks fine with plenty of headroom.

Thank you again for the help!

 

[setsailsoon]

Aqua,

This is extremely helpful. Thank you so much. Will save me some effort since I won't have to figure out how to make an uneven surface and something that looks good. All I need to do is get plenty of water over a good sharp level Edge. I love the limestone technique. Makes a lot of sense as do most things that experienced Builders do. The question about two pumps had to do with how to control when one comes on and when the next one comes on. But it's irrelevant now because I'm going to go with the large pump as James suggested. A lot of advantages to this approach including simpler control and it's probably at least a little bit cheaper.

Thanks again for your help.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Folks,

Moving along here on the project so I have some new things to address. One of the items is to update funding so I'm double-checking quotes. This raises several questions I'd appreciate any input you'd have:

• Our previous pool was a gemcoat plaster product that is a knock-off of Pebbletec. It worked great and I'm sure was cost effective since the builder used it. All the pools in that development are holding up great and many are 15+ years. So I'm inclined to do the same thing again. I'm intrigued with Eco Finish but the concerns about qualified installers hasn't likely improved post-pandemic so I think I'll pass. Any comments on this logic?
• I'm thrilled to see aluminum has dropped back to earth on price. My previous screen builder repriced within $500 of my original estimate. That's several thousand less than it was about a year ago.
• Funding is something I've been pondering. Original plan was to pay cash out of savings for the house and pool. 22% home price escalation post-pandemic kind of put a squeeze on that. When we decided to proceed with the new +22% estimate last year on the house we knew it might end up driving us to at least some interim financing for the pool. We have a long-planned asset sale that will cover the PB but won't happen for about 2 years. Our thinking was that the house material/labor costs are not likely to drop soon in the hot Florida market. They may stop increasing but waiting on the home-build is not likely to help. So far that seems to have been a good decision. Most of the materials for the house stabilized the few exceptions sort of offset. For example lumber dropped back to high end of normal but concrete is close to double what we paid. Aluminum dropped but other than the pool screen there's not much aluminum in the house. Rates have gone back up to normal and that's not surprising and didn't affect us for the house since we used equity and savings built up over decades. For the pool funding we looked at several types of mortgages and the front end costs are enormous. Origination, taxes, appraisals, fees, fees, fees result in $5-10K up-front for a $100K loan that I plan to pay off in 2 years. HELOC appears to be by far the best choice. ~1K up front and 7.2%. Many banks quit doing HELOC's during the pandemic and most have re-started. Any comments from here before I lock in to the HELOC?
• Good news on the 5 HP Pentair WhisperfloXF. It is back in stock at Polytec. ~$2500 saves me a LOT compared to 2- 3 HP vs pumps. @JamesW, I owe you one!
• I've gotten a lot of recent help from @ajw22, @AQUA~HOLICS, @JoyfulNoise and others on here lately, thanks much guys!

All input/suggestions/questions are much appreciated. As soon as I get the updated quotes and availability/delivery times I'll post the current cost estimate and schedule.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

PS. LED light choices and preferences change a lot as this technology has been emerging over the last few years. What are your current preferences?

 

[setsailsoon]

Folks,

We are getting moving on several fronts and I'd appreciate your input on the following:

• One of the gunite bidders has a question about steel matting in the zero edge trough section. Drawing shows single layer but he typically sees two. I've asked him for advantages from construction perspective. What do folks on here think?
• What are the current preferences of folks here. Last I recall it seemed that Pentair Intellibrite seemed to be favored.
• I'm pretty much locked into the 5 hp commercial grade Pentair WhisperXF variable speed pump. Before we buy thought I'd check here to see if anybody has used it and what their experience has been.

Thanks.

Chris

 

[ajw22]

• One of the gunite bidders has a question about steel matting in the zero edge trough section. Drawing shows single layer but he typically sees two. I've asked him for advantages from construction perspective. What do folks on here think?

Two layers has to be stronger then one.

What is the cost difference?

• What are the current preferences of folks here. Last I recall it seemed that Pentair Intellibrite seemed to be favored.

Really no changes in the pool LED light market.

All Pentair lights have various reliability issues eventually that are described in Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

Intellibrites overheat and burn up the electronics. GloBrites crack and leak and Microbrites eventually get water leaks in.

I would use nicheless Microbrites in a standard 1.5" pipe. Before installing the Microbites I would place a bead of clear silicone sealant around the back of the clear lens where it meets the casing and let it dry for 24 hrs. And seal the back of the casing where the parts connect together.

Pentaire Globrite LED light leak

I have 4 Pentaire Globrite color LED lights in my 3.5 year old pool and all 4 LED lights have failed after filling with water. After reviewing the web and forums like this one, this seems to be a common problem and many have blamed a faulty o-ring on the front of the light. However, I also...

www.troublefreepool.com

Using the 1.5" nicheless lights you will have the widest range of non-Pentair lights, like CMP, in the future.

You will need more lights as Microbrites have less lumens then Intellibrites.

Pentair guideline is to aim for 4 lumens per square foot of pool surface. For example, if the pool is 500 sq-ft then you need 500x4=2000 lumens. This would be 4 MicroBrites or 2 IntelliBrite rgb.

 

[setsailsoon]

Two layers has to be stronger then one.

What is the cost difference?



Really no changes in the pool LED light market.

All Pentair lights have various reliability issues eventually that are described in Pentair LED Pool Lights - Further Reading

Intellibrites overheat and burn up the electronics. GloBrites crack and leak and Microbrites eventually get water leaks in.

I would use nicheless Microbrites in a standard 1.5" pipe. Before installing the Microbites I would place a bead of clear silicone sealant around the back of the clear lens where it meets the casing and let it dry for 24 hrs. And seal the back of the casing where the parts connect together.

Pentaire Globrite LED light leak

I have 4 Pentaire Globrite color LED lights in my 3.5 year old pool and all 4 LED lights have failed after filling with water. After reviewing the web and forums like this one, this seems to be a common problem and many have blamed a faulty o-ring on the front of the light. However, I also...

www.troublefreepool.com

Using the 1.5" nicheless lights you will have the widest range of non-Pentair lights, like CMP, in the future.

You will need more lights as Microbrites have less lumens then Intellibrites.

Pentair guideline is to aim for 4 lumens per square foot of pool surface. For example, if the pool is 500 sq-ft then you need 500x4=2000 lumens. This would be 4 MicroBrites or 2 IntelliBrite rgb.

Thanks Allen, very helpful.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Starting to get prices in again to confirm bids/deliveries. Got pricing from one of my preferred gunite contractors yesterday. Base price is $275/yd installed. Adders for more complex items like the zero edge will be confirmed. Get this, delivery is 1 week!! Wow! Way better than previous. I'll get adder pricing tomorrow.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Two layers has to be stronger then one.

What is the cost difference?

Yep, I agree. One of the bidders has indicated they won't spray the job unless it's double matted. They're the most qualified bidder so that's good enough for me.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

OK, now we're getting into the nitty-gritty details (not my strong suit). Thinking we go with Diamond Brite Midnight Blue and a dark blue tile at the zero edge. First is the midnight blue Diamond Brite. Second is a shot of Gemcoat Capri. Any thoughts?

Chris

Also may get a price for Gemcoat (Florida Stucco) Capri... looks very similar. We had gemcoat in our last pool and it held up well for 7 years.

3D image of the pool from the designer looks like this:

 

[kimkats]

YES AND YES!!! That will be so pretty!!!

 

[kellyfair]

Hi Chris! Long time no see!

They are similar, but I’m partial to the first one!

 

[setsailsoon]

Allen,
This is extremely helpful as well. I built a spreadsheet as you suggested, can past in Excel format very well so below is a screen clip. Does this make sense and look OK to you?

Chris

View attachment 514963

Allen,
Just got 3 of the conditions changed to "met" today with my submittals earlier this week. One of them was electrical. Looks like the load list submitted using your suggested format worked like a charm. Thanks!

Only 2 remaining and they just haven't been looked at by the assigned plan reviewer yet... fingers crossed!

Chris

 

[ajw22]

Allen,
Just got 3 of the conditions changed to "met" today with my submittals earlier this week. One of them was electrical. Looks like the load list submitted using your suggested format worked like a charm. Thanks!

 

[setsailsoon]

Folks,

Sorry for the long delay, we're finally ready to start the pool. Got the building permit approved about 10 days ago and am now updating pricing and availability of all my subs. To do this I've generated a checklist shown below. Am I missing anything? Looks like my excavation sub will start mid Jan.

Chris

			Sub Checklist
		Materials	Labor	Insurance	License	Specification
Gunite						Pool Design Docs
Excavation						As agreed w/ Forming sub
Haul out​
Forming						Pool Design Docs
Wood and Other​						Pool Design Docs
Rebar​						Pool Design Docs
Plumbing (to pad only)​						Pool Design Docs
Temp pump​						Pool Design Docs
Plaster						Dimond Brite Bahama Breeze
Pavers						Belgard Lafitt Grana Napoli
Electrical Wiring						Pool Design Docs
Pool Lights​						Pool Design Docs
Bonding​						Pool Design Docs
Enclosure						TBD
Equipment						Pool Design Docs
Main Pump​						Pool Design Docs
SPA Pump​						Pool Design Docs
Controls​						Pool Design Docs
Filter​						Pool Design Docs
RO Unit​						TBD
Heater, propane​						TBD
Heater, solar​						TBD
Pool Cover​						TBD
Robot​						TBD
Landscaping						Building Permit
Survey						Building Permit
Permit & Inspections						Building Permit

 

[ajw22]

• Skimmers - type?
• SWG
• Spa Blower or Venturi air piping?
• Spa jets?
• Spa jet air/water manifolds to be used?
• Drain type in pool and spa - channel drains? round ones?
• Hydrostatic drain in bottom of pool?
• Pad plumbing & valving
• Coping
• Tile & tile applications materials & process
• Provision for expansion joint between bond beam and deck
• Recent discussion about installing suction/pressure cleaner line even with robot given state of robot tech and economics
• Drainage/water management between pool and house on deck

 

[setsailsoon]

• Skimmers - type?
• SWG
• Spa Blower or Venturi air piping?
• Spa jets?
• Spa jet air/water manifolds to be used?
• Drain type in pool and spa - channel drains? round ones?
• Hydrostatic drain in bottom of pool?
• Pad plumbing & valving
• Coping
• Tile & tile applications materials & process
• Provision for expansion joint between bond beam and deck
• Recent discussion about installing suction/pressure cleaner line even with robot given state of robot tech and economics
• Drainage/water management between pool and house on deck

A lot of this was included in the various different subs but I can't believe I forgot the SWG! Thank you Allen.

 

[Newdude]

I can't believe I forgot the SWG!

I had mine in hand before signing the build contract. After 8+ years with one, It was *that* high on my wish list.

 

[ajw22]

A lot of this was included in the various different subs but I can't believe I forgot the SWG! Thank you Allen.

Impossible for me to evaluate what is missing without seeing all the documents.

Your list had pavers and plaster but not coping and tile. Hmmm…

 

[setsailsoon]

Impossible for me to evaluate what is missing without seeing all the documents.

Your list had pavers and plaster but not coping and tile. Hmmm…

Allen,
Yeah I should try to summarize the design a little. Detailed design documents are way back in this thread. This pool is a little different than standard designs. We don't have coping or even skimmers since 3 of the edges are zero edge and the 4th is an infinity edge. So 3 edges consist of a channel drain all around the pool that overflow into a concrete gutter. In normal operation the entire pool is a skimmer. The gutter flows into pipe that runs to the basin used for the infinity edge. I can close valves on the gutter drains to force all the water over the infinity edge also if I want to increase for aesthetics. Special thanks to @JamesW for providing me important information on over-flow rate and depth of water on the "weir". I was doing all this because I want the pool to have a "walk in" appearance all round. Will be interesting to see how well this works but there's nothing super unique about it. It's just not all that common in the US.

Tiles and installation are going to be done by the same sub as the plaster with current bids. It's been a few months so I'm confirming all bids right now and they were the winner on this. The zero edge is created by a tile at the top edge of the pool sloping up slightly to the overflow channel around the pool. There is a tile on the very outside of the channel that continues the slope so when I close the gutter valves the water will rise slightly (about 5/16") because all flow is forced over the infinity edge. This means I need a very close to level all around the pool or some parts will get all the flow. I have visited all subs to see work in progress prior to letting them bid so I'm pretty confident in their capability to perform.

Chris