White ring on water tile

[bdavis466]

I would just hit the tiles with the acid and be careful around the grout. That's a small amount of deposits anyway and shouldn't take much effort.

The water level looks a little on the low side to me. Maybe halfway between the calcium line and the current level.

 

[pooldv]

People often do have major issues with their pools. I have seen people have to replaster their pools after less than 5 years due to scale.

As Brian mentioned the recommended levels will keep your CSI in range. Monitoring CSI becomes important when one or more factors in a pool are out of the recommended range.

More here,
Pool School - Recommended Levels
Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs

 

[Titan7]

Tested again, this morning TA @ 80. Ph at 7.2. Will keep a close eye on this. I raised the water, and will try a calcium eraser. The only thing i would add to the reccomended levels chart is to add that TA out of range will cause scaling. That would have caught my attention. In the end i guess it will go away so no harm, no foul.

Will move questions back to testing thread.

Thx

 

[Titan7]

Okay since i cant leave things alone I started researching this further. There are two types of calcium scale
Calcium carbonate.
Calcium silicate

To test which one you have put muriatic acid on it, if it fizzes its the calcium carbonate. If there is no effect it the calcium silicate, which appears must be removed by mechanical means.

So took a q-tip and put some straight acid on the scale, no fizz. 10 minutes later the line is still there, wow. So my question is will proper CSI disolve calcium silicate scale over time or will I need to hire a pro to soda blast the scale once i have csi dialed in. Just wondering which scale you guys had? Sorry to be impatient, but after the $$ and time i put into this pool, it just makes me sick to look at this ring.

I was thinking pumace stone but i am not sure that will cause some scratching on the tile. I guess i can test it out on a spare piece of tile i have.

Thanks, and sorry to be a pain, i did search the fourms but can't seem to find a thread on point.

 

[pooldv]

I don't know which scale I had, I didn't do anything to it. The pumice stone shouldn't scratch the tile but it will put a bunch of pumice in your pool. You do know that this forum is here so that you can ask questions about your pool don't you? :-D

 

[bdavis466]

Your numbers weren't far enough off to have calcium silicate form.

Can you even see the ring with the water level even with it?

Is something actually on the tile or did that section of tile lose its color?

 

[Titan7]

Thanks, I did not think 34 days could cause the calcium silicate, but acid does not make it fizz. I can't feel the ring at all, when the when wet it's invisible. I did try to put more on the tile in a section looks a little better. I can't imagine the color gone from the tile as when it's wet it looks perfect. Now my tile is not a gloss finish, it got a texture matte finish, so I am sure with magnification it would have a lot of pours. I was just blown away that it's not fizzing with straight acid, that's what made me think calcium silicate.


On a side note, SAFETY. This acid is REALLY nasty stuff. I only put about 1/4 of a ounce if that in a cup and used a small model paint brush to carefully brush only the tile. I was doing this from the top of the deck while laying on the deck I could not smell the acid as it was such a small amount, however after 15 minutes I stood up walked around, then thought I had a runny nose, wiped my nose with my hand to find I had a nose bleed. Upon closer inspection it appears the fumes caused a chemical burn in one of the nostrils of my nose. I am not going to die, but I will never go around this stuff without my respirator, safety glasses, and gloves, I can't believe how toxic this acid is. I thought it just smelled bad and to not get any on your skin, I would have never guess the little amount on the end of a 1/8" wide paint brush could cause my nose to bleed. Folk, be very careful with this stuff I learned a big lesson!!

 

[Titan7]

So I forgot to ask an important question. If I am going to let this "dissolve" on it's own once CSI is right, do I need to raise the water level back up to the line or will just splashing action from swimming etc be adequate for it to be removed?

thanks

 

[bdavis466]

Raising the water level would be ideal

 

[Titan7]

Okay, that will only leave 1 1/2" of pool tile above water level and 4 1/2" under water and the skimmer. Hopefully the skimmer will be okay with 1" of the mouth open.

I guess it worked that way for a while. I sure hope you guys had the same scale, I have talked to a company that removes it with salt blasting but they said the surface can change it little, that's not good.

I may pick up some pumius stone and test on a extra piece of tile. My tile is not glossy smooth, it has a matte texture.

thanks!

PS. What's just insane about all this is I looked back at my chemistry log for the past 36 days and I have maintained a very tight PH of 7.5 with the TA being highest at 120, then 110.

So with pool math with a PH of 7.5 when my TA was at 120 my CSI was 0.07, @ TA of 110 my CSI 0.03, that's not much off 0. Just really surprised to see this after 30 days. Sorry for the rant but perhaps this thread will help some other new pool owner.

 

[bdavis466]

That's why I don't think it's scale and I believe your tile lost it's color

 

[Titan7]

That's why I don't think it's scale and I believe your tile lost it's color

Yikes! But when it's wet the white ring disappears and you can see the blue tile color where the white line was?? Starting to believe I just have the "touch of death" with this house. I called 3-4 places today and all of them said they have never seen this happen with 30 days of water with my chemistry values.

 

[bdavis466]

It's either the tile or a haze from the plaster dust. Try straight acid and a scrub pad on one tile

 

[Titan7]

Update,

White ring 8, Pool owner 0

So far I have tried the following to remove it:
4:1Acid
2:1Acid
100% Acid
Lime-away
CLR
3m Blue and Green scrub pads
Pumice stone

I tested everything on a extra piece of tile before trying on the pool. I also looked back at pictures I took of the pool and spa, I notice one photo of the Spa, the water level was down about 1" and I saw a faint ring on the spa tile (this was when I had the auto fill off). The date of the photo was 8/5, so this ring started happening 10 days after the water went into the pool. I checked my pool log and my numbers for the last 35 days have avg. as follows:

FC:3-6
PH:7.5
CH: 275
TA: 120-80( first 5 days 120, then dropped to 110 on 8/17, currently at 80)
CYA: 30-40

CSI: was 0.07 with a TA of 120, 0.03 @ TA of 110, and -0.16 @ TA of 80. None of these values is outside of the recommended range. So what the HECK??

The tile has not lost it's color, when wet there is no line, you cant feel the line with your fingernail. I can't possibly be the only person in world with this happening, well I guess I could but that not likely. I am open to any other suggestions. I have left a msg for my PB but I am not expecting much from him.

Sorry if the thread is frustrating, trust me its very frustrating for my wife and I, I just can't believe this is so hard to figure out, its not like I am trying to build a rocket here. I have placed a piece of tile on the step of my spa on top of a plastic cup so half is in the water. I am trying to see if it forms a ring on this piece then I can take it to somebody in the hope of fixing it. The other plan is to let it sit and see if it comes off on it's own, I can't imagine that is going to work since my water chemistry was not messed up and this should not occur in 10-30 days.

I really can't raise the water in the pool back to the line as the skimmer will not function, My guess is the set up guy who installed the auto-fill float adjusted it too high. I just never noticed until later. I will see if the Spa ring disappears as that water level is set with the spill over. Perhaps I am being negative but with my number as they are, I just can't see how bringing CSI from 0.07 to 0 to -0.3 is going to make this disappear, but I am praying it does. I hate reading threads that never come to conclusion so you never know the outcome, therefore, I will keep posting until I find a solution or give up. Any suggestions are welcome.

have a great weekend!

 

[poolnewbies5874]

Maybe try a plastic paint scraper or some really fine sandpaper? We don't have tiles but I used the above in our fiberglass pool when concrete dust left a ring around the waterline of our new build.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[pooldv]

Yes, that is a beating! I'll see if I can find some more help on this.

 

[PAGirl]

Have you tried a Magic Eraser yet?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Did you add Scale-Tec or any other kind of scale inhibitor? What are your phosphate levels?

Calcium silicate is not likely unless someone got cement dust in your pool. Calcium phosphate can form a white colored crust too that does not dissolve upon exposure to acid.

Soda blasting with kierserite media works the best. Glass bead blasting is too abrasive. Kierserite is only slightly harder than calcium scale and so it removes it effectively without damaging the tile glaze or removing grout.

As an aside - DO NOT WEAR A RESPIRATOR WITH MURIATIC ACID. Splash resistant safety glasses are fine but a respirator will reduce your bodies protective reflexes that would cause you to turn your head away when smelling acid fumes. We had one user wear a respirator that reduced the odors but left his eyes totally exposed to the acid vapors. He suffered mild corneal burns because his nose could not tell his brain to turn his eyes away. Wearing improper PPEs is almost worse than wearing no PPEs at all.

 

[kellyfair]

Read on an old thread that the scrubbers specifically made for glass cooktops might work.

 

[Titan7]

Did you add Scale-Tec or any other kind of scale inhibitor? What are your phosphate levels?

Calcium silicate is not likely unless someone got cement dust in your pool. Calcium phosphate can form a white colored crust too that does not dissolve upon exposure to acid.

Soda blasting with kierserite media works the best. Glass bead blasting is too abrasive. Kierserite is only slightly harder than calcium scale and so it removes it effectively without damaging the tile glaze or removing grout.

As an aside - DO NOT WEAR A RESPIRATOR WITH MURIATIC ACID. Splash resistant safety glasses are fine but a respirator will reduce your bodies protective reflexes that would cause you to turn your head away when smelling acid fumes. We had one user wear a respirator that reduced the odors but left his eyes totally exposed to the acid vapors. He suffered mild corneal burns because his nose could not tell his brain to turn his eyes away. Wearing improper PPEs is almost worse than wearing no PPEs at all.

Did not add scaletec, i did not want to add more stuff to the pool until i fixed this. Do not know what my phosphates are, how should i test for it?

I will also try the cleaner for smooth cook tops. Any chance it will go back into the water or is that not happening with this line